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Recent movie mistakes about guns

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  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Tugar wrote: »
    Was watching "War" the other night. Jason Statham and Jet Li. Had to laugh as one the weapons used was the new FN 5.7mm. Here's the kicker. The cases were all titanium and the bullets were depleted uranium. I just rolled my eyes.

    Now, you see, that's one of those "inside" gotchas that I'd have totally missed. It's like having a scene with a pickup truck but the truck has a different size tire than that model normally comes with -- it would go right over my head, due to my lack of detail knowledge about truck tires and maybe not caring that much.

    So -- what's the "eye roll" inducer that came from titanium cases and DU bullets? Thanks.
  • TugarTugar Senior Member Posts: 2,423 Senior Member
    Cases are usually brass as the brass will expand as the round goes off, filling the chamber and creating a better gas seal. Titanium is hard, so no expansion. It would probably work, but you'd lose a little velocity AND machining Ti cases would likely be a pain. Much less loading them. I have a Ti wedding ring. It cannot be resized.

    Depleted uranium is what they make anti-tank sabots out of. Depleted uranium is 68.4% denser than lead, and almost as hard as tungsten. So a bullet made out of it would probably never expand. Unless he was trying to shoot through a vest or car, I don't see the need.

    It's technobabble that sounds good, like the Teflon bullets from Lethal Weapon. (Which do exist but are rare)
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
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  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Ah, okay I now understand. The point isn't the mixing of titanium cases with DU bullets but the entire idea. Titanium cases would have essentially negative merit, regardless of the bullet composition, because brass (or brass alloy) has the required hardness to maintain shape but just enough flexibility to keep a seal. It's just a buzz phrase, the titanium thing -- really would have zero use and be expensive and hard to load, right?

    I do know that on certain instances, our ground troops were using DU bullets in their ARs. I'm certain that was for special harder armor opponents and such. DU bullets wouldn't be very helpful in any other situation other than special military aps. Thanks for the info.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    Every time I see the term "depleted uranium" I get a little agitated. The material in 'depleted uranium' is mostly U-238. No matter what the isotope of Uranium, IT IS RADIOACTIVE. Half life for U-238 is long at 4.468 x 10 to the 9th years. It decays by alpha emission and a gamma ray of 4.270 Mev and ends up as Thorium 232. Nice little element, there. Or it can decay by spontaneous fission and throw a 205.87 Mev gamma ray. That's some hard radiation right there, and the daughter products of the fission are nasty, and can/may also decay into some more nasty elements. And then there is the double Beta decay mode; that one is right nasty, but extremely rare.

    When one of the projectiles from this material hits a target, some of it will be sheared off, and some may be vaporized. Since when has it ever been acceptable and/or safe to breathe vaporized (atomized) uranium dust?

    For what it's worth, 'depleted uranium' means that it is mostly devoid of the easily fissionable isotope U-235 used in reactor fuel and bombs. In this case 'depleted' doesn't mean 'safe' unless they have a new meaning of 'safe' of which I am unaware. U-238 is radioactive; Geiger counters don't lie.
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  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,739 Senior Member
    I'm like some of the others on this forum that don't have much of a problem with some of the smaller details of gun inaccuracies......but when they go blatant about it, I completely lose interest in the movie altogether and just start LMAO instead.

    Conservation of Momentum does not exist in Hollywood for some reason! I need to get one of those user-end recoiless rifles that launch people back 30 feet, yes I'm a huge fan of those ( :bang: )

    Or how about the ricocheting bullets that bounce around inside a room so slowly the shooter can actually follow the bullets position by turning his head in different directions (Dawn of the Dead and other movies) but they don't slow down and just stop after an appropriate number of bounces.
    :roll2:

    Those things bug me as much as the ole 2-wire trick for hot wiring cars. You know the one, touch two wires to engage the starter solenoid and start the engine then wrap the same two wires together to keep the car running! (something mysterious going on there that's beyond me)

    I've given up on trying to expect technical accuracy in the movies so I just do my best to see if there's a compelling story behind it.

    :beer:
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,975 Senior Member
    What.....no one is gonna bring up the old forum favorite of curving the bullet?
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Understand totally the hazards of DU rounds but they were indeed used in some cases early in the Gulf War. And yes I've worked with radioactive chemicals and was trained in such. Heavy element poisoning isn't so much about the radiation as it is the kidney/pancreas damage that the metals do to you -- like lead poisoning.

    Jump starting the car is always a treat to watch on TV shows, especially since the 2 wires that start the car AND keep the ignition hot ALSO magically unlock the steering column. Keen.

    And you're right, Spk, it's not worth it trying to expect tech accuracy -- we can only hope the errors aren't so bad that they interrupt the story line. Some "errors", such as were seen in the very entertaining spoof "Red" were just over the top jokes. When the movies TRY to be accurate and miss the mark a lot, it's frustrating. Sigh.
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,739 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    ...
    Jump starting the car is always a treat to watch on TV shows, especially since the 2 wires that start the car AND keep the ignition hot ALSO magically unlock the steering column. Keen.

    [I bow to you Sam :worthy:, good catch, it slipped my mind for a moment.]

    And you're right, Spk, it's not worth it trying to expect tech accuracy -- we can only hope the errors aren't so bad that they interrupt the story line. Some "errors", such as were seen in the very entertaining spoof "Red" were just over the top jokes. When the movies TRY to be accurate and miss the mark a lot, it's frustrating. Sigh.

    +1 :beer:
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • GunnerK19GunnerK19 Senior Member Posts: 1,095 Senior Member
    I would like to bring up "Boondock Saints II"; When the brothers jump off the building and ropefall into the glass and shoot the bad guys...

    Each is carrying a brace of compensated Desert Eagle .50 AE's, and during the slo mo killing scene, seem to fire about 30 rounds or more each (without reloading), from a freaking .50 cal short recoil handgun accurately and with no ill effects?

    Kinda like watching the beginning of "Courage under Fire" with Denzel's tank charging into combat and HIS DRIVER IS RUNNING OPEN HATCH with his noggin' stuck out!

    Less than believable If ya ask me...
    I'm a Conservative. How conservative? Only Alex P. Keaton has me beat.

    Taurus 605 .357, Ruger .45 Vaquero, Colt frontier commemorative .22 SA, Pietta 1860 .44 snubnose
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 18,117 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    I do know that on certain instances, our ground troops were using DU bullets in their ARs. I'm certain that was for special harder armor opponents and such. DU bullets wouldn't be very helpful in any other situation other than special military aps. Thanks for the info.

    Expound upon that DU 5.56 ammo if you please...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • DetectivegrantDetectivegrant New Member Posts: 4 New Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    My belief-o-meter is lingering around "give him benifit of the doubt, but prepare to yell liar."
    Thank you for the benefit of the doubt. Before you yell out Liar check me out on google search "russ grant Rizzoli and Isles" or on www.imdb.com.
  • DetectivegrantDetectivegrant New Member Posts: 4 New Member
    Thank you for the welcome. I am impressed with the knowledge I've encountered here. I plan to use this forum in the future for the types of off beat technical situations that may arise. So if you see me in here know this: My "expert" status is in the field of Homicide investigation, drug investigations and LE tactics. I will never portray myself as a gun expert but I do try to do extensive research in the limited time I have for each script, usually just days. Anyone who watches the show will seelthat our lead actors always handle their weapons like professionals. That said I'm sure someone will find a blooper or two ;) again thanks for the welcome.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 18,117 Senior Member
    So about this .22LR Hornet...You do realize of course, that such a thing does not now nor has it ever existed?
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    So about this .22LR Hornet...You do realize of course, that such a thing does not now nor has it ever existed?

    + ONE ON THAT, sure would like to see a .22LR Hornet, I wonder what it would look like if it did exist? :that:
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    So about this .22LR Hornet...You do realize of course, that such a thing does not now nor has it ever existed?

    And the AR-7 was never chambered for it either.

    I call shenanigans !!! Ala Southpark !!!

    http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s02e13-cow-days

    The boys get their dolls at last, only to learn they've been ripped off again. South Park calls "shenanigans."
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 18,117 Senior Member
    Thank you for the welcome. I am impressed with the knowledge I've encountered here. I plan to use this forum in the future for the types of off beat technical situations that may arise. So if you see me in here know this: My "expert" status is in the field of Homicide investigation, drug investigations and LE tactics. I will never portray myself as a gun expert but I do try to do extensive research in the limited time I have for each script, usually just days. Anyone who watches the show will seelthat our lead actors always handle their weapons like professionals. That said I'm sure someone will find a blooper or two ;) again thanks for the welcome.

    Just for the record..here's another welcome. One thing that drives knowledgeable gun folks crazy are obvious mistakes in firearms use, nomenclature,etc...but, you have landed on a resource, that, even with your short turn-around times, can get your questions (no matter how obscure) answered really quickly by folks who know
    .
    Now if you can just keep your actors from running into a fight with their slides locked back (Criminal Minds the other night), we'll be making progress.
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • GentleMiantGentleMiant Member Posts: 32 Member
    ironduke wrote: »
    Seriously, I could consult for Hollywood and save them a lot of embarassment.

    But Duke, nothing embarasses Hollywood types! Remember "Babe"? He was supposed to be a male pig right? But they showed her backside! Not to mention all those nipples.
  • GentleMiantGentleMiant Member Posts: 32 Member
    Thank you for the welcome. I am impressed with the knowledge I've encountered here. I plan to use this forum in the future for the types of off beat technical situations that may arise.

    Hi D.G.,
    There is a file: "Firearm Survival for Law Enforcement Officers" at SPAM! that might be helpful. But this is the third time I've posted it and I'm beginning to feel like a spammer. So unless a wizop tells me it's okay, or how else to provide access, I won't be mentioning it again. Of course any suggestions from members here that take a peek will be appreciated.
  • centermass556centermass556 Senior Member Posts: 3,534 Senior Member
    Yeah...I too would like to know when US Soldiers were issued DU rounds....especially since Sabot Tank rounds are Pacing items....

    Mike, When it comes to dealing with DULRAM in the Army, there is no misconception on the idea that it is less dangerous than U-235. Back in the 90's and even some of the early 00's we used to have entire Testing tasks that revolved around handling DULRAM and protecting yourself from it. Used to hate it, Those tasks involved us being in MOPP 2 or higher for training....
    "To have really lived, you must have almost died. To those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Yeah...I too would like to know when US Soldiers were issued DU rounds....especially since Sabot Tank rounds are Pacing items....

    Mike, When it comes to dealing with DULRAM in the Army, there is no misconception on the idea that it is less dangerous than U-235. Back in the 90's and even some of the early 00's we used to have entire Testing tasks that revolved around handling DULRAM and protecting yourself from it. Used to hate it, Those tasks involved us being in MOPP 2 or higher for training....

    And that's why it weren't safe to poke around knocked out enemy tanks/vehicles hit with DU rounds, like from the Bradley Fighting Vehicles (BFVs) 25 Mike Mikes, unprotected anyhow.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • JKPJKP Senior Member Posts: 2,538 Senior Member
    Hi D.G.,
    There is a file: "Firearm Survival for Law Enforcement Officers" at SPAM! that might be helpful. But this is the third time I've posted it and I'm beginning to feel like a spammer. So unless a wizop tells me it's okay, or how else to provide access, I won't be mentioning it again. Of course any suggestions from members here that take a peek will be appreciated.

    Some really good laughs at that link. You can't be serious...

    Here's a sample: "When facing a threat, if you're confident of your accuracy, aiming for a head shot can save you from having to shoot the suspect. They will be able to see that you will not miss and they're not going to take a hit and still get you. Also, if they do bring a weapon to bear, you will be able to be more certain of stopping them. No fear of soft armor."
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    That is classic Mall Ninja talk right there, more like what a gamer would say, no self respecting LE Instructor would voice such an obvious BS opinion.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,663 Senior Member
    JKP wrote: »
    Some really good laughs at that link. You can't be serious...

    Here's a sample: "When facing a threat, if you're confident of your accuracy, aiming for a head shot can save you from having to shoot the suspect. They will be able to see that you will not miss and they're not going to take a hit and still get you. Also, if they do bring a weapon to bear, you will be able to be more certain of stopping them. No fear of soft armor."

    That has been posted here a couple times over the years...... Always by..
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    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • temmitemmi Member Posts: 230 Member
    JKP wrote: »
    Some really good laughs at that link. You can't be serious...

    Here's a sample: "When facing a threat, if you're confident of your accuracy, aiming for a head shot can save you from having to shoot the suspect. They will be able to see that you will not miss and they're not going to take a hit and still get you. Also, if they do bring a weapon to bear, you will be able to be more certain of stopping them. No fear of soft armor."


    The head shot is a bad shot.
  • GentleMiantGentleMiant Member Posts: 32 Member
    JKP wrote: »
    Some really good laughs at that link. You can't be serious...

    Here's a sample: "When facing a threat, if you're confident of your accuracy, aiming for a head shot can save you from having to shoot the suspect. They will be able to see that you will not miss and they're not going to take a hit and still get you. Also, if they do bring a weapon to bear, you will be able to be more certain of stopping them. No fear of soft armor."


    I'm glad you got a chuckle, JKP. If you'd be objective enough to explain the humor, and your explanation was reasonable, I'm sure there must be others here besides myself that could learn from a (presumably) smart fellow like you. I hope you did notice that the file stated its purpose was to maximize survival of the officer at the possible expense of SOP.

    Warning shots are also not SOP, but I've fired them twice. Once when a drug crazy was approaching rapidly... until the shot woke him up. The other time the suspect just turned tail.

    Regarding head shots, a suspect ran to his car and scuffled around inside for a minute then peeped over the window jamb. I heard later that he was in the habit of keeping a .45 in his car. But after staring down my barrel for some seconds, he came out of the car -without the .45.

    I'm not recommending head shots for uncertain shooters (I am recommending they become sharpshooters if they want to survive). But I've faced more violent and armed opponents than I can remember, and never had to shoot one. If you do have to shoot when aiming for the head, the prosecutor may try to make a fuss, but your record should stand for you.

    Anyway, thx for checking out my site.
  • GentleMiantGentleMiant Member Posts: 32 Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    That is classic Mall Ninja talk right there, more like what a gamer would say, no self respecting LE Instructor would voice such an obvious BS opinion.

    Hi Dr.
    If you read my file I think you'll be able to tell the difference in experience and theory. If not, I can't help it.

    Not that it matters, but I'm not a gamer. Too bad it seems that no one is sufficiently objective to talk facts instead of laughs and insults. I'm not impressed with your "scientific method".
  • JKPJKP Senior Member Posts: 2,538 Senior Member
    I'm glad you got a chuckle, JKP. If you'd be objective enough to explain the humor, and your explanation was reasonable, I'm sure there must be others here besides myself that could learn from a (presumably) smart fellow like you. I hope you did notice that the file stated its purpose was to maximize survival of the officer at the possible expense of SOP.

    Warning shots are also not SOP, but I've fired them twice. Once when a drug crazy was approaching rapidly... until the shot woke him up. The other time the suspect just turned tail.

    Regarding head shots, a suspect ran to his car and scuffled around inside for a minute then peeped over the window jamb. I heard later that he was in the habit of keeping a .45 in his car. But after staring down my barrel for some seconds, he came out of the car -without the .45.

    I'm not recommending head shots for uncertain shooters (I am recommending they become sharpshooters if they want to survive). But I've faced more violent and armed opponents than I can remember, and never had to shoot one. If you do have to shoot when aiming for the head, the prosecutor may try to make a fuss, but your record should stand for you.

    Anyway, thx for checking out my site.

    Man, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and thinking your link was humorous in nature. I'll let you get back to facing all of those violent and armed opponents since that likely takes up a lot of your valuable time.
  • PegasusPegasus Senior Member Posts: 2,819 Senior Member
    Regarding head shots, a suspect ran to his car and scuffled around inside for a minute then peeped over the window jamb. I heard later that he was in the habit of keeping a .45 in his car. But after staring down my barrel for some seconds, he came out of the car -without the .45.

    This is completely different from what we were led to believe. You aimed for the head, because that's all you had to aim at.

    I'm totally willing to believe you all your claims, because they may be true and I have no idea, or desire, to find out if they are correct; I just take it at face value.

    Anyway, thx for checking out my site.

    I wasn't going to, and after reading the snippet posted earlier, I definitely won't, but I do want to welcome you to the site. I will add that we only talk guns and ammo here, police procedures and ways to deal with suspects are not popular subjects here and will get you comments that may not meet your expectations.
  • PegasusPegasus Senior Member Posts: 2,819 Senior Member
    Thank you for the welcome. I am impressed with the knowledge I've encountered here. I plan to use this forum in the future for the types of off beat technical situations that may arise. So if you see me in here know this: My "expert" status is in the field of Homicide investigation, drug investigations and LE tactics. I will never portray myself as a gun expert but I do try to do extensive research in the limited time I have for each script, usually just days. Anyone who watches the show will seelthat our lead actors always handle their weapons like professionals. That said I'm sure someone will find a blooper or two ;) again thanks for the welcome.

    Let me throw in a few cents’ worth of comments on movies and gun usage. To preface the first part, I will say that I am looking at this from the point of view of a Long Range F-class competitor who has been shipings two pounds of high-speed lead to 1000 yards every month, 180 grains at a time. This amount to 3-400 pounds over the last 5-6 years.

    1- The supersonic signature of a rifle bullet is quite loud, even at 1000 yards. We always wear ear protection in the pits while manning the targets; it’s not just the little bzzz of the bullet going by; it’s LOUD.

    2- Why do they always have to cycle a pump shotgun before it can be fired? Sometimes, they cycle it 2-3 times before firing it once.

    3- Bullet strikes do not create sparks. I realize movies need that visual component, but it’s just not reality.

    4- Pistol and rifle bullets will not cause a car to explode. Anything shot from a handheld firearm will not cause a fleeing car to flip over, grenade launchers excepted.

    5- Using binoculars while looking for targets produces a round image, not the barbell-shaped one with which we are usually presented.

    6- When shooting at high angles either up or down, the bullet will fly high. So, unless the shooter has calculated the slant range and dialed down the scope accordingly, the crosshairs will have to be positioned low, and as the range and/or angle increase, it will need to go lower still. I just love the long plunging headshots that are taken when the crosshair is right on the target. In reality that bullet missed the target completely and went on to kill the bystander sitting 25 feet behind the target.

    7- These shots become even more difficult when the target is moving. Let me introduce the concept of leading the target, and that is NOT accomplished by keeping the crosshair on the target as it is moving. Showing a headshot taken from up high as the target moves through a crowd is simply not reality.

    8- Even on a bipod, when a rifle is fired from the shoulder the crosshairs will dance on the target due to breathing, heartbeat, body tremors, wind, etc. The rule is simple, if your body touches the rifle, it moves. The trick is to pull the trigger at the exact instant the crosshairs are on the target. I realize it may make people seasick to watch the crosshairs move, but it does not have to be moving by much, and I would even say that showing the effect of the heartbeat on the reticle would lend a touch of realism to the scene. The true marksman is able to slow his heartbeat down and can take the shot at the exact time when the crosshairs are where they need to be. Again, this requires a lot of training and you need to keep up that skill. By shooting. All the time.

    9- When the rifle fires, the scope will move and the bigger the caliber, the more the rifle moves. Depicting the target crumbling while the crosshairs stay put is fantasy. With my heavy match AR-15 rifle I can keep the target in the scope, but the crosshairs will come off the target. That rifle is very heavy, and the cartridge is just a .223 Remington. I employ buffers, heavy bipod, rear bag and solid prone position and it still moves. My heavier .308 match rifle, with a heavy bipod and 32 inch heavy barrel will come off the target completely.

    10- The image in the scope has to match the magnification of the scope. Spending a little bit of time figuring out the expected field of view for a specific power and distance would go a long way toward enhancing realism.

    11- As the distance increase, the likelihood of a miss also increases. Marksmanship is a perishable skill; it takes time to acquire and must be consistently honed. I love those stories where the assassin goes undercover for weeks and months and is then able to take a headshot at 1000 yards with an ordinary rifle, military or otherwise, first time every time. Offhand. While the target is moving. Shooting downhill. In high winds.

    12- Another fun one is somebody picking up a rifle that has been dropped by someone else and making an superb shot at long distance, first time, every time, without knowing the caliber, the ballistics of the load, the zero of the scope and so on. Just pick it up and shoot, easy peasy.



    For the second part, I am looking at this from the point of view of an IPSC competitor a few decades back, when I was burning about 1000 rounds of pistol ammo per month.


    1- Laser dots will dance all over the target; they are not steady in the least. It takes a lot of training to be proficient with handguns. Oh, and just because you have a badge does not automagically make you a proficient shooter.

    2- Speed draws, especially from concealment require an extraordinary amount of training in order to become proficient, point shooting is a very difficult skill to acquire and maintain.

    3- Shooting while running just wastes ammo and endangers everybody but the target. As you run, you jump up and down and so does the handgun. Run or shoot, pick one, I don’t care who you are. And before someone jumps in and says that it is possible to do that, yes; I am aware of the way that you can walk fast (not run) and shoot (heel to toe). It is not easy and it requires training. And it’s definitely not what is depicted in the movies.

    4- Speaking of running, it's hard to outrun a bullet. In Sci-Fi movies, as long as a laser is limited to the speed of light, the hero can always outrun it.

    5- Silencers/suppressors do not work with revolvers. That peksy gap between the cylinder and the forcing cone will not be ignored. Such devices on pistols only work well if the bullet is subsonic. On a rifle with normal ammunition, the suppressor does its job by masking the origin of the sound. You hear the shot and the crack of the supersonic bullet, but you’re not sure where it came from.

    6- Discharging firearms inside a room is extremely LOUD. People may even have difficulty hearing for a little while.

    7- Handguns kick, big handguns kick even more. The petite woman picking up that .45 and shooting it for the first time ever will experience some problems keeping it on target after the first shot has been fired.

    8- You need to pull back the hammer before a single-action revolver can fire. Pointing a Colt SAA at somebody with the hammer down is a waste of time.
  • GentleMiantGentleMiant Member Posts: 32 Member
    Pegasus wrote: »
    I wasn't going to, and after reading the snippet posted earlier, I definitely won't, but I do want to welcome you to the site. I will add that we only talk guns and ammo here, police procedures and ways to deal with suspects are not popular subjects here and will get you comments that may not meet your expectations.

    Thx for the welcome Pegasus,
    "Taking at face value" means also noticing if it's logical, I presume. That's as fair as I could ask. And thx for the tip.

    I thought that probably members here were so involved in guns largely for their self defense value. If that were so, my file could certainly be helpful. I must have been mistaken.

    I attribute my never having to shoot anyone to always aiming for the head. Most "cocaine cowboys" in downtown Miami had a macho culture and probably would love to tell how they once took a bullet and then beat the shooter to death with his own gun. But they are smart enough to know that that's not going to happen with a head shot. The guy with the .45 in his car was a very muscular pimp who was trying to turn out a girl in my building. Really used to pushing people around. But later, another girl's brother killed him, so I don't need to be concerned with his death threat. (smile)

    To clarify a few things: the snap shooter that could hit a bird in flight without sighting was not me. But I was more accurate than anyone I knew. And probably am still more accurate than most cops. And I believe anyone who would use a firearm in self-defense should take the trouble to get really accurate.

    I don't live in Miami anymore and rarely carry. I never have to face decisions to shoot someone or not now.

    If you have trouble with winter colds or sore throat, you may still want to check out my sight.
This discussion has been closed.
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