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Ladder Test - developing hunting load

beartrackerbeartracker Senior MemberPosts: 3,116 Senior Member
I have always wondered if IMR7828SSC would perform well in a 3006 pushing 180gr bullets. I figure that the compressed charges have the potential to produce good accuracy and respectable velocities while being consistent and having low Extreme spread and Deviation.

Will be doing a ladder test on my loads using 20 rounds 180gr CT BT with Hornady brass and 210 primers, the following is what I will do. Brass coming in today and bullets will be here Monday.



IMR 7828SSC 61.3grs 2785fps with 22" barrel, 60,000 psi and hope to find a sweet spot 2700fps and above, will see.


1. 61.3,

2. 61.0,

3. 60.7,

4. 60.4,

5. 60.1,

6. 59.8,

7. 59.5,

8. 59.2,

9. 58.9,

10. 58.6,

11. 58.3,

12. 58.0,

13. 57.7,

14. 57.4,

15. 57.1,

16. 56.8,

17. 56.5,

18. 56.2,

19. 55.9,

20. 55.6,



Note: I will clean my barrel so I can shoot five fouling loads using IMR7828SCC so the barrel settles down and my Ladder test will be more valid or at least consistent. Also, the top charge does not protrude into the neck but it is a compressed charge


Here is a link that explains in detail the "Ladder Process" of developing loads - Incremental Load Development Method (ILDM)
http://www.desertsharpshooters.com/manuals/incredload.pdf

Please note: I am not firing 20 groups I will be firing 20 individual single rounds starting with the lowest charge working up one round at a time firing all at the same aim point. I will also be doing this at 200yds not 300yds because it is easier at the range I will be using.
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Replies

  • AiredaleAiredale Banned Posts: 624 Senior Member
    I'm on the conservative side and have always been suspect of compressed powder loads.
    That's just me.
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    I was thumbing through my Speer manual last night and they don't really say all that much about compressed loads. They just put a "c" by the recommended powder charge to denote that it is a compressed load.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • AiredaleAiredale Banned Posts: 624 Senior Member
    There's a good reason for that. It's my thinking that they're saying that compressed powder loads can not be consistent in their burning.
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    Well, we will know next Tuesday or at least i will find out something. I have 7 extreme spread and 3 deviation with my compressed 7mm08 load using W760 so we will see. Also, got low extreme spread and deviation with my 300Win mag with compressed charges, but that does not mean I will get it in this case. Time will tell.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    Well, we will know next Tuesday or at least i will find out something. I have 7 extreme spread and 3 deviation with my compressed 7mm08 load using W760 so we will see. Also, got low extreme spread and deviation with my 300Win mag with compressed charges, but that does not mean I will get it in this case. Time will tell.

    Here's what I have believed to be the case for the last 30 years of my loading career. The loads in those books are worked up with pressure barrels and if Speer says they're safe, they are more than likely safe. The few times I've seen high pressure was with loads that happened to have had some space between the powder and the base of the bullet. Now I don't think i'd go out on a limb and load compressed loads that weren't blessed by the powers that be as safe. But i believe Mike knows this and his dealings with compressed loads aren't guess work.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    My brass came in and it is all the same lot. Measured the length of the cases from one of the boxes also the neck thickness just to see where the quality of this brass might be and I am impressed. Looking forward to my load work with it.

    file_zps8943bc3a.jpg

    Weighed a box of 50 count and had a high of 174.6 and a low of 171.7 for a 2.9gr difference between high and low, not bad at all.
  • Johnny rebJohnny reb Member Posts: 674 Senior Member
    Looking forward too you're work up. I hope too have some results from the 8 mag and 220's this weekend weather permitting.
  • Johnny rebJohnny reb Member Posts: 674 Senior Member
    Have you stretched the legs on your 8 yet. I got too shoot a couple groups this past weekend at 400 yards before the wind picked up too much and I'm happy with the 200 grain noslers so far hope too reach out farther here soon.
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    Not yet, having issues with the extractor, and the muzzle area, thinking I need to go ahead and have some work done on it instead wasting more components and not being happy with the results.
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    Johnny reb wrote: »
    Have you stretched the legs on your 8 yet. I got too shoot a couple groups this past weekend at 400 yards before the wind picked up too much and I'm happy with the 200 grain noslers so far hope too reach out farther here soon.

    How did your groups turn out? It's been windy/rainy/crappy here plus no time to get out to where I can shoot that far. But I sure am looking forward to trying my hand at it. A friend found me some 220s and some 170s.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • Johnny rebJohnny reb Member Posts: 674 Senior Member
    On the first group of 5 2 were touching the other 3 were around an inch and a quater too a inch and a half apart. The total group on both 5 shot groups were around 4.5 too 5 Inches. I know I can get better results off of a solid bench and rest. These were shot off of sandbags and my dogbox in the back of my truck.
  • Johnny rebJohnny reb Member Posts: 674 Senior Member
    not a very good pic but you can see the last group.
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    Johnny reb wrote: »
    On the first group of 5 2 were touching the other 3 were around an inch and a quater too a inch and a half apart. The total group on both 5 shot groups were around 4.5 too 5 Inches. I know I can get better results off of a solid bench and rest. These were shot off of sandbags and my dogbox in the back of my truck.

    Well at 100 yrds with 200grn ABs I get first 2 touching, the 3rd opens things up. I'm sure this is barrel heat.
    So when I stretch it out I'm going to let the barrel cool after 2 shots. You might consider that.
    Personally, I shoot rifles to hunt, so the first two are most important to me. But even so, there are no flies on those 400 yard groups especially with 5 shots. I'd be well pleased with that at 400. You're just an RCH over MOA after all.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    Johnny reb wrote: »
    not a very good pic but you can see the last group.
    Ain't nothing wrong with that at 400 brother. How are you sighted in at 100? I like 3" high
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • Johnny rebJohnny reb Member Posts: 674 Senior Member
    I'm 0n at 200 whenever I figure out exactly what rounds I'm going too use I'm going too have a set of custom turrets built so all I have too do is dial the yardage. If the 220 grain work good I may just set up 2 scopes for that gun one for 200 grain and one for 220. But before I get that far I think I'm putting glass on my 375
  • Johnny rebJohnny reb Member Posts: 674 Senior Member
    What kind of glass do you have on you're 8?
  • jaywaptijaywapti Senior Member Posts: 4,981 Senior Member
    Airedale wrote: »
    There's a good reason for that. It's my thinking that they're saying that compressed powder loads can not be consistent in their burning.

    I have found just the opposite, for the past 30 odd yrs I have loaded a comp. load of 51gr / IMR 4895 (3.2 over max) With a 225 Sierra in my M-70, .358 Win.
    Accuracy has always been 1" or less 5rds. @ 100 yds.

    JAY
    THE DEFINITION OF GUN CONTROL IS HITTING THE TARGET WITH YOUR FIRST SHOT
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    Johnny reb wrote: »
    What kind of glass do you have on you're 8?

    If you're talking to me I chose a Burris 4.5x12x42. It's got compensating dots for windage and elevation, I haven't tested them yet though.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    Johnny reb wrote: »
    I'm 0n at 200 whenever I figure out exactly what rounds I'm going too use I'm going too have a set of custom turrets built so all I have too do is dial the yardage. If the 220 grain work good I may just set up 2 scopes for that gun one for 200 grain and one for 220. But before I get that far I think I'm putting glass on my 375

    Sure would like to see some picks of that .375 when you get a break. My next rifle will be a .338 WM. After that I think a .375 will be in order. Or maybe I'll look into a .358

    Edit: Last time I checked 3" high at 100 put me purt near on at 200 with my .30 '06. Haven't verified that with my 8 though. But i would suspect it would be slightly higher. I just feel like that 3 high at 100 gives me a good point blank range for hunting.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    jaywapiti, do you let your barrel cool between shots for 5 shot groups?
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    Johnny reb wrote: »
    I'm 0n at 200 whenever I figure out exactly what rounds I'm going too use I'm going too have a set of custom turrets built so all I have too do is dial the yardage. If the 220 grain work good I may just set up 2 scopes for that gun one for 200 grain and one for 220. But before I get that far I think I'm putting glass on my 375

    Swapping scopes out for two different bullets is a pain. Just get a set of target turrets for the scope and write down how many clicks to turn the turret when changing bullets. A decent scope should be repetitive enough for that. And you could buy a damn decent scope for what you'll pay for two unless you're thinking El Cheapo.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    Well, I am not willing to spend the money on the big eight and it is to much to get it like I want so I sold it to a gun smith, turned around and bought $850.00 dollars worth of components for my remaining rifles. Its over, its out of the way and now I don't have anymore heart break over it being what I want and it wasn't going to be unless I spent at least a minimum of $1200.00 for a rebuild (new barrel, stock, extractor, blue printing, trigger ect.). Oh, did I say it is over with the big 8, yeah, its gone. I know, but it is gone! Now on with my life and back to getting ready for my Ladder test of my 30-06.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    p
    Sure would like to see some picks of that .375 when you get a break. My next rifle will be a .338 WM. After that I think a .375 will be in order. Or maybe I'll look into a .358

    Edit: Last time I checked 3" high at 100 put me purt near on at 200 with my .30 '06. Haven't verified that with my 8 though. But i would suspect it would be slightly higher. I just feel like that 3 high at 100 gives me a good point blank range for hunting.


    With a 150 grain bullet out the muzzle at right at 2950-3000 fps, I can set my 06 right at 2 inches high at 100 and it'll be dead on elevation wise at 200 yards.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • Johnny rebJohnny reb Member Posts: 674 Senior Member
    Originally Posted by Johnny reb
    I'm 0n at 200 whenever I figure out exactly what rounds I'm going too use I'm going too have a set of custom turrets built so all I have too do is dial the yardage. If the 220 grain work good I may just set up 2 scopes for that gun one for 200 grain and one for 220. But before I get that far I think I'm putting glass on my 375
    Swapping scopes out for two different bullets is a pain. Just get a set of target turrets for the scope and write down how many clicks to turn the turret when changing bullets. A decent scope should be repetitive enough for that. And you could buy a damn decent scope for what you'll pay for two unless you're thinking El Cheapo. I have a zeiss divari on it right now and Kenton industries can build me a set of turrets for under $200 that's what I'll probally do.
  • jaywaptijaywapti Senior Member Posts: 4,981 Senior Member
    jaywapiti, do you let your barrel cool between shots for 5 shot groups?

    First 3 shots as if im hunting, next 2 about 2min. apart, this rifle has 2 stocks, the original,(never used) and a kevlar and graphite pillar bedded which i use for hunting.

    JAY
    THE DEFINITION OF GUN CONTROL IS HITTING THE TARGET WITH YOUR FIRST SHOT
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    Johnny reb wrote: »
    Originally Posted by Johnny reb
    I'm 0n at 200 whenever I figure out exactly what rounds I'm going too use I'm going too have a set of custom turrets built so all I have too do is dial the yardage. If the 220 grain work good I may just set up 2 scopes for that gun one for 200 grain and one for 220. But before I get that far I think I'm putting glass on my 375
    Swapping scopes out for two different bullets is a pain. Just get a set of target turrets for the scope and write down how many clicks to turn the turret when changing bullets. A decent scope should be repetitive enough for that. And you could buy a damn decent scope for what you'll pay for two unless you're thinking El Cheapo. I have a zeiss divari on it right now and Kenton industries can build me a set of turrets for under $200 that's what I'll probally do.

    I don't know which Zeise you have, but anything with Zeise written on it is plenty of quality. You might call Zeise USA and see if they sell some target turrets for it. Might be a bit cheaper than $200.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • Johnny rebJohnny reb Member Posts: 674 Senior Member
    Kenton industries are the ones that build them for zeiss. I have a German made divari on it not cheap by any means but I do like quality glass.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    I have target turrets for three of my Nikon Buckmasters but don't have them on any of those three scopes. Back in the day I had a Weaver T-6 scope on my .308 win. Ruger 77 and it had target turrets. One day we were hunting and I looked down and the windage turret was turned about 180 degrees. What to do what to do!!! So I had my buddy stop the truck, got out and layed my rifle on my jacket, took the bolt out and looked through the bore and moved the rifle til a highline pole about 150 yards away was right in the middle of the barrel. Then I looked through the scope. It was about 5 feet left of target so I turned it to the left til it was on zero. Then looked through the barrel and then in the scope. It was all lined up again. But that was the last time i took that rifle-scope hunting where I wasn't sitting in a blind. Even then from that point on, once I was situated in the blind I would do a quick boresite to make sure it was right. I know these won't do this as easy now days, because you can lock them down where they won't move. Otherwise they're hanin out like underwear on the clothesline.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • AiredaleAiredale Banned Posts: 624 Senior Member
    Agreed, reduced loads can be more dangerous than any.
  • Johnny rebJohnny reb Member Posts: 674 Senior Member
    Snake these turrets have a zero stop so you can automatically go back there set up like the huskemaw scope . You send in all you're ballistic info bullet weight , ballistic coefficent, altitude,muzzle velocity , calibre and they set the scope up like that I have a buddy who had one done. All you if it's 450 yards you dialed 450 and held dead on
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