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Family’s Home Raided over Facebook Photo of Child’s Rifle

Big ChiefBig Chief Senior MemberPosts: 32,995 Senior Member
http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/familys-home-raided-over-facebook-photo-of-childs-rifle.html

By Todd Starnes

"New Jersey police and Dept. of Children and Families officials raided the home of a firearms instructor and demanded to see his guns after he posted a Facebook photo of his 11-year-old son holding a rifle.

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“Someone called family services about the photo,” said Evan Nappen, an attorney representing Shawn Moore. “It led to an incredible, heavy-handed raid on his house. They wanted to see his gun safe, his guns and search his house. They even threatened to take his kids.”

Moore was not arrested or charged.
This is the Facebook photo that led to the police raid.

This is the Facebook photo that led to the police raid.

A Dept. of Children and Families spokesperson told Fox News they could not confirm or deny an investigation or raid had taken place due to government regulations.

“The department has a child abuse hotline for the state of New Jersey and anybody can make a call to that hotline,” spokesperson Kristen Brown said. “We are required to follow up on every single allegation that comes into the central registry.”

Moore, of Carneys Point, is a certified firearms instructor for the National Rifle Association, an NRA range safety officer and a New Jersey hunter education instructor.

He recently posted a photograph of his son wearing camouflage and holding his new .22 rifle. The child has a New Jersey hunting license and recently passed the state’s hunter safety course.

“If you look at the picture, his finger isn’t even on the trigger – which is proper,” Nappen told Fox News. “If half of Hollywood could follow that rule we’d be thankful.”

Brown said their role is not to go out and search Facebook for photos of children holding weapons.

“In general our role is to investigate allegations of child abuse and neglect,” she said.

The family’s trouble started Saturday night when Moore received an urgent text message from his wife. The Carneys Point Police Dept. and the New Jersey Dept. of Children and Families had raided their home.

Moore immediately called Nappen and rushed home to find officers demanding to check his guns and his gun safe.

Instead, he handed the cell phone to one of the officers – so they could speak with Nappen.

“If you have a warrant, you’re coming in,” Nappen told the officers. “If you don’t, then you’re not. That’s what privacy is all about.”

With his attorney on speaker phone, Moore instructed the officers to leave his home.

“I was told I was being unreasonable and that I was acting suspicious because I wouldn’t open my safe,” Moore wrote on the Delaware Open Carry website. “They told me they were going to get a search warrant. I told them to go ahead.”
Moore took this photo of police outside his home.

Moore took this photo of police outside his home.

Nappen told Fox News the police wanted to inventory his firearms.

“”We said no way, it’s not happening,” he said. “This is a guy who is completely credentialed and his son is also credentialed.”

The attorney said police eventually left and never returned.

“He has a Fourth Amendment right and he’s not going to give up his Fourth Amendment right or his Second Amendment right,” he said. “They didn’t have a warrant – so see you later.”

Brown told Fox News that it’s “prudent and wise to protect children.”

“In many cases we may follow up on something and we don’t find any problems and the case is closed,” she said.

But the person who reported the false allegations of abuse cannot be held liable, she noted.

“You can’t be prosecuted for making an allegation of child abuse –even if it’s false,” she said.

Nappen said what happened to the Moore family should serve as a warning to gun owners across the nation.

“To make someone go through this because he posted a picture of his son with a .22 rifle on his Facebook page is pretty outrageous,” he said. “Does that mean that anyone who posts a picture like that has to consent to a home inspection and a gun inspection? I don’t think so.”

Nappen said they are considering taking legal action against the state FOR the late night raid."

By Todd Starnes
It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
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Replies

  • the independentthe independent Member Posts: 52 Member
    Why the fight always go on.

    The requirement is that they follow up. The above is a major major over reaction that needs to be addressed which is hard since the government is always right. From the book the correct action would have been a phone call stating that someone had reported this and a follow up is required by law. This is what was reported and based on the reliability of the person it closed at that point. Call, check the above credentials, done. All two phone calls.
  • shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Senior Member Posts: 5,734 Senior Member
    Bravo to the guy for handling this very well.

    Let that be a lesson to everyone. If Johnny Law comes knocking and demands to see your stuff (firearms or otherwise), no warrant = no-go.

    Our freedom is not derived from their authority, their authority is derived from our consent.
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast, and speed is the economy of motion" - Scott Jedlinski
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    [
    But the person who reported the false allegations of abuse cannot be held liable, she noted.

    “You can’t be prosecuted for making an allegation of child abuse –even if it’s false,” she said.


    Why is this an exception? If you lie about any other crime, that in itself is a crime!
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,395 Senior Member
    The police can and do lie to people all the time when people are being investigated. They have immunity from prosecution for doing so. But if a person lies to the police, they can be arrested and charged for several 'crimes' for lying to the police. Never understood that one.

    The person reporting the alleged child abuse isn't prosecuted, I suppose, to keep people informing on others in what they perceive is a crime. If the allegations prove false and the person making them is prosecuted, people would be less likely to report crimes. Kind of like it is now in a lot of places where no one trusts the police.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 11,148 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    Why is this an exception? If you lie about any other crime, that in itself is a crime!

    Just remember that for future reference. It could be an interesting tool if it ever comes down to being a 'resistance'.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • Ranch13Ranch13 Senior Member Posts: 820 Senior Member
    What I'm wondering is where's the statement from the loudmouthed idiot that holds the governors office in that state. Supposedly he's the next choice of the talking head "conservatives" for president. Seems he might have something to say along "conservative" lines about the over reaction of his DFS and police????
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,398 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    Why is this an exception? If you lie about any other crime, that in itself is a crime!
    Because its "for the children".

    Been on the stinky end of this stick.

    As the accused, you have no right to know your accuser, and they are immune from prosecution as is CPS. As the accused, even after the CPS pukes find nothing, you are still on probation (not called that but it is what it is) until the CPS puke decides that you are not. Its how govt. drones justify their existance and why I won't pee on a CPS puke if they are on fire.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • lightkeeperlightkeeper Member Posts: 168 Member
    This kind of thing is the reason I never post anything on line. :roll2:
  • the independentthe independent Member Posts: 52 Member
    The things done right on this one were, get your legal team together fast. Hold your ground firmly but not aggressively.

    Things done wrong, where do you start. A phone call, fax the credentials, closed. No more. A person with a father like that is going to proudly show off his new hunting license. It is still part of society regardless of what is wanted by some. The push should be to get higher powers on line and push down.

    The fact is that any one who has a grudge can report you and it must be investigated. With a guilty until proven otherwise attitude. So the rules do need to provide protection for those reporting, but penalties if falsely reported.
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 6,244 Senior Member
    Yawn. The cops showed up because they are required to, they were denied entry due to not having a warrant.

    Wake me up when something really outrageous happens.
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    Yawn. The cops showed up because they are required to, they were denied entry due to not having a warrant.

    Wake me up when something really outrageous happens.

    Armed jack booted storm troopers demanding access to your safe is not outrageous to you?

    And furthermore this talk of how the father and son were "credentialed" should somehow make a difference sickens me.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • 1965Jeff1965Jeff Senior Member Posts: 1,644 Senior Member
    Facebook sucks.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,493 Senior Member
    Armed jack booted storm troopers demanding access to your safe is not outrageous to you?

    And furthermore this talk of how the father and son were "credentialed" should somehow make a difference sickens me.
    Without a warrant, it's only a request. One you can deny. And the police were only there because they had to be, to accompany the child protective person who had to be there because someone called in the request. Because of the law.

    What I find more disturbing (and I think more people should, too) is that some nosy busy-body can call in such things as "endangering" a child.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 6,244 Senior Member
    Armed jack booted storm troopers demanding access to your safe is not outrageous to you?

    No more than them demanding to search my car. They were denied access. The man's rights remained intact. Cops left, didn't return. When they push into his home and search ANYway, let me know.

    In hindsight, I hope the father remembers that every idiot has an internet connection, and keeps his photos private. What bothers me most is the limp wristed basement dweller that called CPS in the beginning, and will suffer no repercussions.
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 6,244 Senior Member
    "Child endangerment" and "rape" seem to be the two "guilty until proven innocent" accusations.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,493 Senior Member
    More like "accused = guilty."
    Overkill is underrated.
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    Without a warrant, it's only a request. One you can deny. And the police were only there because they had to be, to accompany the child protective person who had to be there because someone called in the request. Because of the law.

    What I find more disturbing (and I think more people should, too) is that some nosy busy-body can call in such things as "endangering" a child.

    When the Dad got home they were already in the house. He was told he was acting suspiciously for not opening his safe so they could inventory his guns. They didn't request anything of his wife. They intimidated her for entry to the home.
    This guy, like Buffy, thought hey, I'm a white guy, i pay my taxes, I nod hello to the sheriff when I go into the cafe for lunch. Things like this don't happen to people like me.
    Well, they do.
    '
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 6,244 Senior Member
    More like "accused = guilty."

    Like Varmintmist, I've seen the ugly side of child molestation charges. Not me, but distant family. Tore the family apart, and the charge was leveled by a vindictive, bitter person.

    I didn't believe it and still don't. Didn't matter. He suffered. No prison, but who cares. The accusation and subsequent social stigmatization was punishment enough
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,610 Senior Member
    Without a warrant, it's only a request. One you can deny. And the police were only there because they had to be, to accompany the child protective person who had to be there because someone called in the request. Because of the law.

    What I find more disturbing (and I think more people should, too) is that some nosy busy-body can call in such things as "endangering" a child.


    This^

    Frankly, a quick look at the 'offending' picture on Facebook would have shown nothing more than a happy boy proudly displaying his gift. A follow-up phone call to the family in question and the state's DNR (or whatever it's called there) would have revealed that they are indeed both 'credentialed' and we wouldn't be hearing about this at all.

    However, the fact that some body (not what I want to say) actually felt the need to drop a dime like that....:angry: :cuss:

    Just remember folks, they were just doing their jobs.:roll:
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 6,244 Senior Member
    When the Dad got home they were already in the house. He was told he was acting suspiciously for not opening his safe so they could inventory his guns. They didn't request anything of his wife. They intimidated her for entry to the home.
    This guy, like Buffy, thought hey, I'm a white guy, i pay my taxes, I nod hello to the sheriff when I go into the cafe for lunch. Things like this don't happen to people like me.
    Well, they do.
    '

    CPS is a . That's the boogey man.
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    CPS is a . That's the boogey man.

    I guess the auto-censor got you or something, yes CPS can be unfair but they ain't the only ones.
    Recently we had a case Where an LRPD lieutenant, working off duty but in uniform at a trendy pub not far from where I live had a guy come in and sit down, expecting to be served. The cop told him the place was closed for a private party and he had to leave. So the guy left but wanted to know who had requested he leave,(this is court testimony), Anyway, long story/short, the cop slams the guy face first into a brink wall, a few elbows to the face later and it's a cuffed body slam to the sidewalk. The charge? Trespassing, on a public sidewalk.
    But someone had their phone cam on. Turns out this 30 year vet's personnel jacket was full of claims of abuse, Adjudication, 2 days off with pay. This time it was 30 days no pay, Now, The civil suit is pending, and he beat the hell out of this guy.
    You beat the hell outta someone and see how different things are for the lowly citizen. And i guarantee you he won't be stripped of his gun ownership rights.
    Now picture yourself as a black teen pulled over by this guy for failing to signal a lane change or some crap. If someone didn't think to turn on their phone, This guy could get away with murder.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,610 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    CPS is a . That's the boogey man.


    Maybe, but it's for the kids! It will all be worth it if they can save just one life.....
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 12,622 Senior Member
    1965Jeff wrote: »
    Facebook sucks.

    This.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • maddog999maddog999 New Member Posts: 3 New Member
    It's frightening knowing that there are folks out there that have such a paranoid mindset that they feel it's their obligation to interfere in someone's life due to a picture on Facebook....... What's happening to this world?
  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 8,109 Senior Member
    maddog999 wrote: »
    It's frightening knowing that there are folks out there that have such a paranoid mindset that they feel it's their obligation to interfere in someone's life due to a picture on Facebook....... What's happening to this world?

    Nothing wrong with the world..........its the smarmy 'poke your nose into other peoples business' 'do as I say and not as I do' intolerant bigoted wankers that try to make an imperfect society perfect with their slanted ideas of whats right or wrong.

    In the past, a pic of a kid with his new/first gun would have been something to be celebrated and would draw congratulations. I wonder how the kid feels about what happened when someone decided to rain on his parade........
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    Why is this an exception? If you lie about any other crime, that in itself is a crime!

    Because, the libtards say it is a crime and we all know that they're always right, RIGHT?

    They should have to have good reason to go through with a search. Not just some jackwagon calling in. And besides, half these child abuse accusations are BS too. Nowdays you can get arrested for disciplining your own kids. Yeah sure there's a line between discipline and child abuse, but it's wider than they treat it now days. I went to school with a distant cousin whose dad was a real child abuser. Nowdays he'd probably get life in the penitentary (Well he would deserve it), but everybody knew what was going on and it was just hard to make the charge stick back in the 50s. He showed my mother and me his legs once where his insane dad beat him with a garden hose. But that's so much different than posting a pic of your kid with his own 22 rifle. How the hell is THAT child abuse? If these LEOs would have had the common sense God gave a goose, this would never have been an issue.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    coolgunguy wrote: »
    Maybe, but it's for the kids! It will all be worth it if they can save just one life.....
    Yeah CGG, but you gotta use some common sense. Why would a pic of a kid holding a rifle have anything to do with Child Abuse, unless the accuser was a libtard anti?
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • SuperacercSuperacerc New Member Posts: 22 New Member
    This is the one of the reasons I don't have a face book or twitter account or anything else of the sort. It seems like posting things there is just asking for someone to invade your privacy. Its creepy how much info can be found on a person there and how adverts. are tailored to your internet useage. Tmi.
  • 1965Jeff1965Jeff Senior Member Posts: 1,644 Senior Member
    Superacerc wrote: »
    This is the one of the reasons I don't have a face book or twitter account or anything else of the sort. It seems like posting things there is just asking for someone to invade your privacy. Its creepy how much info can be found on a person there and how adverts. are tailored to your internet useage. Tmi.
    Exactly. /\ This.
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    Superacerc wrote: »
    This is the one of the reasons I don't have a face book or twitter account or anything else of the sort. It seems like posting things there is just asking for someone to invade your privacy. Its creepy how much info can be found on a person there and how adverts. are tailored to your internet useage. Tmi.


    The democrats use social media with exceptional skill to market their candidates. Even the RNC has groaned about being behind the curve in technology regarding campaigning. Social media is what the youth of America are about.

    We can reject social media because it's "creepy" and lose the youth vote or we can use it responsibly to further our cause.
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


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