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Basic Health Care

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  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,626 Senior Member
    Airedale wrote: »
    I happen to be the treasurer of a small Baptist Church in our community.
    You have no idea of the problems that small Churches have in meeting their financial needs.
    I'm trying to say that you already have the gun screwed in your ear by exhorbitent costs for heath care in emergency rooms.
    There are 300 million of us. Maybe one third that are tax payers.
    Would I give 50 bucks a year for health care for folks that don't have any? You bet I would
    Let's see, 100 million times 50 bucks.
    You do the math.
    Christ said "take care of the poor."

    I've done the math. It doesn't add up. The latest estimates tell me that my premiums are going to go up by better than half, not $50. And that's per month, not as a one-time donation to a five billion dollar cause. So now you do the math. Millionaires and billionaires huh? The one is far enough away that I'll never get close and the other is nothing more than a concept to me. Who's taking care of who?

    Being careful not to bring religion into this argument, I have to ask if you're okay with all of the healthcare that Uncle has decided that you are going to provide to 'folks who can't for themselves'? There isn't anything that bothers you about it?

    You honestly think that five billion would fix this mess??
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • Dr. dbDr. db Senior Member Posts: 1,541 Senior Member
    I read recently that the projected 10 tear cost is 1.7 trillion and there will still be 30 million people uninsured or not covered. Doesn't seem like the Affordable Healthcare Act does its job very well.
  • Dr. dbDr. db Senior Member Posts: 1,541 Senior Member
    Ten year although tear might be appropriate.
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 11,683 Senior Member
    Airedale wrote: »
    Would I give 50 bucks a year for health care for folks that don't have any? You bet I would

    Great. You can do so.
    Airedale wrote: »
    Christ said "take care of the poor."

    But would christ have supported having Pontius Pilate send out a Roman legionnaire to take it at sword point? because that is what you are doing. You want to have your morality forced across everyone at the point of a gun. That is NOT moral.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,812 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    ...But would christ have supported having Pontius Pilate send out a Roman legionnaire to take it at sword point[, squander half of it with administrative expenses, and steal 10% of the remainder to finance his re-election campaign], because that is what you are doing. You want to have your morality forced across everyone at the point of a gun. That is NOT moral.

    I took the liberty of amending your quote, in the interest of fuller disclosure. :tooth:
  • AiredaleAiredale Banned Posts: 624 Senior Member
    In my world, Christ, God, and Church would have been in upper case. Interesting to me that you typed Pontius Pilate in the upper case.
    Our Christ was apolitical, His thoughts were in a higher order.
    It's not apparent to me that health is being forced at the point of a gun.
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 11,683 Senior Member
    Airedale wrote: »
    In my world, Christ, God, and Church would have been in upper case. Interesting to me that you typed Pontius Pilate in the upper case.
    Our Christ was apolitical, His thoughts were in a higher order.

    I'm typing on a phone while doing 16 other things. A typo is not evidence of intent.

    Airedale wrote: »
    It's not apparent to me that health is being forced at the point of a gun.

    It's not. But the money is being taken from MY family at the point of a gun. You want to use the Govt's monopoly on the use of deadly force to take money that I need to take care of my family to pay for other people's needs. That's immoral.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,626 Senior Member
    Airedale wrote: »
    In my world, Christ, God, and Church would have been in upper case. Interesting to me that you typed Pontius Pilate in the upper case.
    Our Christ was apolitical, His thoughts were in a higher order.
    It's not apparent to me that health is being forced at the point of a gun.


    Well, you wouldn't see it that way because you think it's a good idea. You didn't answer my question posted earlier. Maybe I was too vague, so I'll try again. How happy will you be to find that abortions, (including late term/partial birth type) and 'gender re-assignment' surgeries are being performed on your dime? Since we've all seen how it's the squeakiest wheels get greased, you have to know that both of those scenarios WILL be happening on a regular basis. Not to mention all the free 'healthcare' items that will be given out on demand in the interest of 'family planning'.

    I also wonder how you'll feel when uncle tells us that we can't have fatty foods, or sugary drinks, or lots of sodium and on and on.... I'm starting to suspect it won't be much of a problem for you, but I could be wrong. Of course, none of that would ever happen, so why even fret? :roll:


    As to the 'point of a gun' call it a metaphor, but the idea is the same whether it's an actual gun, or just the coercive strength of our government (little 'G') used in other ways. Interesting that you didn't pick up on that...
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • AiredaleAiredale Banned Posts: 624 Senior Member
    Talk about sidetracking a post!
    I don't recall saying anything about abortions, unhealthy foods, or anything else but about health care.
    And, I try hard to type my thoughts.
    In topics like this, I try to say what I mean, despite distractions. Respectfully.
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,463 Senior Member
    You might not have mentioned abortions, but the whole family "planning" issue keeps coming up in health care. Lots of people want me to pay for that...
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,702 Senior Member
    If you don't think abortions and unhealthy foods aren't part of health care initiatives, I'd suggest you get your head out of the sand.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • tv_racin_fantv_racin_fan Senior Member Posts: 661 Senior Member
    If you don't think abortions and unhealthy foods aren't part of health care initiatives, I'd suggest you get your head out of the sand.

    Sand sir? I suspect that head is somewhere else myself.
  • tv_racin_fantv_racin_fan Senior Member Posts: 661 Senior Member
    Airedale wrote: »
    Talk about sidetracking a post!
    I don't recall saying anything about abortions, unhealthy foods, or anything else but about health care.
    And, I try hard to type my thoughts.
    In topics like this, I try to say what I mean, despite distractions. Respectfully.

    All of those things you forgot to mention are included in HEALTHCARE sir.
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,721 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    I will GLADLY, I repeat GLADLY give 50$ a year to fund someone's health care.
    I however, want the same deal. Because I'm paying 58.62$ per week

    You and your family at 58.62 a week x 4 equals $234.48 a month. Where do I sign up?
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,702 Senior Member
    Sand sir? I suspect that head is somewhere else myself.
    I wasn't going to mention the 4th point of contact.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,812 Senior Member
    The insurance company that my company health insurance plan has been with for many years has decided to get out of the health care insurance business, citing health care 'reform' as the reason. No other company has even made an offer to pick up the coverage, at any price. As of May 1, we become 'self insured,' with higher premiums, higher deductibles, a different network, and many, many unknowns about the future of our health care coverage. Anybody who thinks this was not precipitated by the government's intention to take over health care is a fool. This situation will be visiting everyone, in the near future.

    If you want to see what government administrated 'basic health care' is like, there is a perfect model for it that has been available for viewing for decades - the Veterans Administration. Now, admittedly, some people like it, if they are fortunate enough to have a good local veterans hospital that is well administrated, and if their needs really are basic. But, having grown up in a family of WWII and Korean War and Viet Nam veterans, I have only seen two who did not reject it, after their first few experiences. One died young (65) because he was rejected as a candidate for by-pass surgery, and the other has no major health problems, and thinks the VA is great. He lives in San Antonio, where some of the best military hospitals are located, so that is definitely a factor.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 17,664 Senior Member
    Buford wrote: »
    You and your family at 58.62 a week x 4 equals $234.48 a month. Where do I sign up?

    Yeah, my health insurance for the wife and me is running just over $400.00 a month.....but then I don't have any complaints about the quality of our health insurance....considering the state of the wife's health we get many times more coverage than we pay in.....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,626 Senior Member
    Airedale wrote: »
    Talk about sidetracking a post!
    I don't recall saying anything about abortions, unhealthy foods, or anything else but about health care.
    And, I try hard to type my thoughts.
    In topics like this, I try to say what I mean, despite distractions. Respectfully.

    I know you didn't. That is a HUGE part of the problem. There are entirely too many people who think O-care is going to be a smiles, unicorns and sunshine, when in fact before this is all said and done, we'll ALL get a taste of this crap sandwich. You might not believe in the government mandated, taxpayer funded healthcare reform boogeyman, but that's okay. He believes in you.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • AiredaleAiredale Banned Posts: 624 Senior Member
    Don't y'all realize that we're already paying for it in the most expensive way anyway?
    It's already taxpayer funded.
    We're wasting money in insurance company funded emergency rooms.
  • Dr. dbDr. db Senior Member Posts: 1,541 Senior Member
    Step one. Do something about the 11,000,000 illegal aliens. They are frequent users of emergency rooms and frequently uninsured.
    Step Two. I agree that emergency rooms aren't the most efficient form of care but unless it is buried somewhere in the 2700 pages of the law I don't think the "affordable" health care law establishes a system of local clinics, unless you consider "planned abortionhood."
    Step three. Don't make laws that require other laws to fix. How is 1.7 trillion (almost half unfunded) and 30,000,000 people still uncovered either affordable or comprehensive?
  • AiredaleAiredale Banned Posts: 624 Senior Member
    I don't recall that illegal aliens were part of this discourse.
    I'm talking about American citizens who have low paying jobs. They work hard at what they do. They may not be as gifted as you or I, but they deserve basic health care.
    What more can I say??
  • Dr. dbDr. db Senior Member Posts: 1,541 Senior Member
    They are usually counted in the total number of uninsured thereby inflating the overall number and making the problem seem larger.
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,721 Senior Member
    Airedale wrote: »
    I'm talking about American citizens who have low paying jobs. They work hard at what they do. They may not be as gifted as you or I, but they deserve basic health care.
    What more can I say??

    They should also be provided a house with paid utilities, a low mileage vehicle with AC, a cell phone and flat screen TV. Lets not forget a computer with Internet access so they can look for a BETTER PAYING JOB. Minimum wage job is not a career choice.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • AiredaleAiredale Banned Posts: 624 Senior Member
    Doesn't even deserve a responce.
    But I will, dang me.
    I'm not TALKING about housing, cell phones, vehicles, TV's, air conditioners, or anything else but basic health care.
    Of course minimum wage jobs are not a career choice.
    Don't you realize that these people are trapped for whatever reason?
    Do you think that they like it?
    Do you think that the waitress in the local diner's having fun toting trays for two bucks an hour?? Plus tips???
    It's not her fault that her parents neglected to give her the basic or extended education that she needed.
    So, we throw her in the trash can.
    I got mine, tough luck that you didn't get yours.
    I'm saying that basic humanity should give us cause to help these people.
    You and I run this country, not insurance companies that look at the bottom line. They're the ones that are deciding this.
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 11,683 Senior Member
    I commend you for your caring and generosity. Charity and caring is something that you believe in. I do as well, and I donate freely (when I am able) to take care of those that cannot care for themselves. Everyone SHOULD...

    ...but therein lies the rub. Your caring and morals become evil the moment you turn them out on others and FORCE them to donate and pay for others healthcare. You want to use the brute force of government to force others to your set of morals. That is wrong.

    "DONATE TO THIS CHARITY, OR I WILL HAVE JACKBOOTED THUGS KICK IN YOUR DOOR AND DRAG YOU TO JAIL! IF YOU RESIST WE WILL KILL YOU."

    Can't you see that it is wrong?
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • KSU FirefighterKSU Firefighter Senior Member Posts: 3,249 Senior Member
    Airedale wrote: »
    Doesn't even deserve a responce.
    But I will, dang me.
    I'm not TALKING about housing, cell phones, vehicles, TV's, air conditioners, or anything else but basic health care.
    Of course minimum wage jobs are not a career choice.
    Don't you realize that these people are trapped for whatever reason?
    Do you think that they like it?
    Do you think that the waitress in the local diner's having fun toting trays for two bucks an hour?? Plus tips???
    It's not her fault that her parents neglected to give her the basic or extended education that she needed.
    So, we throw her in the trash can.
    I got mine, tough luck that you didn't get yours.
    I'm saying that basic humanity should give us cause to help these people.
    You and I run this country, not insurance companies that look at the bottom line. They're the ones that are deciding this.

    Okay, how are you going to separate out the illegal aliens from the deserving poor americans? Guess what Obama care won't! How is adding another layer of administrators, clerks, adjustors and general bureaucrats going to make for better healthcare? Guess what, it won't! How will taking my money, so that I can't send my kids to better schools or save for their education to pay for indigent boneheads who don't care enough to try in life to go get more lortabs going to improve healthcare in America? Guess what, it won't. And if you think this is not being done at the point of a gun then don't pay your taxes for the next ten years. When the guys with the dark windbreakers with acronyms across the back show up pay attention, they are going to be taking YOUR money at the POINT OF A GUN! If you want to pay for it go right ahead, I have better ways to use my money!
    The fire service needs a "culture of extinguishment not safety" Ray McCormack FDNY
  • tv_racin_fantv_racin_fan Senior Member Posts: 661 Senior Member
    YOU are welcome to pay for anyones "basic" healthcare you wish. YOU however are not welcome to force me to pay for anyones healthcare beyond my own.

    We are paying for it because someone decided that they could force us to do so. They keep pushing and pushing and do not study history, in fact they ignore history. Man has a tendency to take far more gruff than he should from his govt and then snap and go revolutionary, good people tend to die when that happens.
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,626 Senior Member
    Airedale wrote: »
    Don't y'all realize that we're already paying for it in the most expensive way anyway?
    It's already taxpayer funded.
    We're wasting money in insurance company funded emergency rooms.


    In large part, the 'unpaid' portion of hospital's charges were not paid for by the taxpaying public, but by the hospital's OTHER customers. I'm interested to find out how you think that, despite those costs NOT GOING DOWN,despite other costs GOING UP (the new tax on medical supplies?) despite inflation, and despite what will amount to the status quo (with 30 million STILL uninsured) AND the fact that many employers will be either dropping coverage altogether or modifying hourly schedules to avoid penalties, That adding ANOTHER layer of burecratic inefficiency (likely multiple layers) will make things cheaper?

    You can't possibly be that dense.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • AiredaleAiredale Banned Posts: 624 Senior Member
    Who are the hospital's OTHER customers???
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,702 Senior Member
    Those with insurance or who can pay out of pocket.

    As I and others have pointed out, most hospitals aren't taxpayer funded, but instead get their money from insurance and from those who can pay.
    Overkill is underrated.
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