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Think the government doesn't do anything for you?

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  • KSU FirefighterKSU Firefighter Senior Member Posts: 3,249 Senior Member
    Got one right down the road from my house. They are building the generator part now, but the gas part is working. They were flaring it for a while. They said there was about 20 years worth of methane there. Cool idea in my eyes.

    The city I work for is doing this. They have a contract with a company that cleans the gas, adds the mercaptan, (smell), and sells it the local VA complex. I am all for it, when they used to flare off the methane, we used to get called out at least once a month when someone would see the flare up on the mountain and call it in as a brush fire, at 3 AM. They aren't burning the trash, just selling off the gas produced by the trash.
    The fire service needs a "culture of extinguishment not safety" Ray McCormack FDNY
  • KSU FirefighterKSU Firefighter Senior Member Posts: 3,249 Senior Member
    Ah, another thing I forgot (and I can't believe I did...)

    Hydroelectric has some other impacts, too. They can alter water flow regimens and thermal regimes downstream, which can lead to fewer fish species due to water issues, or they can also interrupt the migration of anadromous, catadromous, and potamodromous species.

    Yeah, most tree huggers are REAL BIG fans of building dams. Ever heard of the Snail Darter?

    Back in your court Skippy!
    The fire service needs a "culture of extinguishment not safety" Ray McCormack FDNY
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,395 Senior Member
    Yeah, most tree huggers are REAL BIG fans of building dams. Ever heard of the Snail Darter?

    Back in your court Skippy!

    The Snail Darter AND a rare psychedelic mushroom also stopped the LMFBR (Liquid Metal Fast Breeder Reactor) project to make new fuel out of the supposedly spent reactor fuel. I had dibs on a job in operations at that plant if it had been built. There would not be a spent fuel storage problem if that plant had been built. Tree huggers and Jimmy Carter stopped that one cold.

    Instead I got to split my 25 years time in nuclear plant operations between Sequoyah and Watts Bar nuclear plants with a side trip of 6 months at New Johnsonville coal fired plant. They also had gas fired turbine generators (giant jet engines) there, too. Got to see one explode on startup; that was spectacular!
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,159 Senior Member
    If all the tax money wasted on electric cars, ethanol, and wind farms were instead used to replace coal fired electric plants with NG plants, we would have saved 3x the carbon for every dollar....


    And my electric bill wouldn't be $200+
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,493 Senior Member
    The environmental regulation of dams have ramped up a ton in the past 20 years or so. Most of them now have pass by flow requirements and significant restrictions on minimum flows, flow rate changes, etc. to minimize in stream ecological impacts, but they're still not nothing.

    The flooding caused by building the dams is also a big deal, but then most reservoirs are built primarily for water storage, not energy.
    Agreed. I was just trying to point out that each energy source (oil included!) has its drawbacks, and that something doesn't have to pollute in order to harm a species. Migratory animals: some of them can have some mitigation through passages, ladders, etc. Others just get shredded in the hydroelectric and those streams have to be stocked in order to maintain that species.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,493 Senior Member
    Oh yeah, more than folks realize. A SCUBA diver was sucked into a nuclear power plant intake back in 1989 in FL. If they suck up people, they'll suck up fishes. I also know a fellow who used to remove sea turtles from the Ft. Pierce powerplant. Lots of fish in there.

    http://www.apnewsarchive.com/1989/Intake-Pipe-Sucks-Up-Scuba-Diver/id-7938595c3e9ac9956c20bde023cb9bb8

    Again: you don't need to pollute to cause environmental damage. And doing so lessens the "green" cred that some industries have with me.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,159 Senior Member
    That's already happening, although the cost savings is temporary. Natural gas prices are on the way up and need to be because no natural gas producer is making a profit at current prices and drilling has dropped off a ton in the dry gas shale plays (all the rigs moving to oil and Nat gas liquids plays).


    Where? I had a job interview at the new AEP Dresden plant. It went online in 2012........ construction started in 2001!!!

    At that rate, they will have replaced the coal plants by......... 2134.
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,395 Senior Member
    At the nuke plants I worked at you couldn't physically get within 50 feet of the cooling water intakes. Large concrete and steel barriers prevented big chunks from getting in, and each individual pump intake had a small 1/4" heavy mesh traveling screen to take out the small stuff. Always got a bunch of shad minnows when running the traveling screens to clean them, but the discharge went into the river and fed the fish well. Those screen discharges were fishing hotspots.

    Not any big deal to build barriers to big fish, trees, and other debris getting into the intakes. Needs to be done when the plant is built, and cost is minimal compared to the cost of the plant itself. Retrofitting can be a costly exercise, though, as the plant has to be shut down while the retrofit takes place. And the environmental impact statement to do the retrofit can take YEARS to go through the process with the Feds, State regs, and the tree huggers who all continually fight to modify, change, and generally screw up the design making it economically untenable. Been there, done that, got the massive headaches from the process.

    Here's an example of that. In 1992 the last plant I worked at (under construction at the time) needed to get additional cooling water for the Condenser Cooling System due to reduced upstream-to-downstream delta T on the river. The obvious solution was to take water from the old defunct coal fired plant CCW system on site and run that water into the cooling towers basins to temper the water temperature at the CCW outflow, and decrease the condenser temperature at the same time. Plans were drawn up, environmental impact statement prepared, the documents submitted, and the process began. The plans were finally approved in highly modified form in early 2001. Pipeline from old coal plant to the cooling towers was started immediately, and the system was operational before the end of 2001. Nine years to get a 'Mother May I' permission slip from the NRC, EPA, and state, and it took less than 7 months to install. And the plant went into operation before the new pipeline was built, and in the summer AND winter had to operate at reduced power a lot to stay within discharge temperature limits. The cold upstream water taken off behind the dam increased electrical output >10% while keeping the river delta T well below limits.

    Lesson learned: The more government entities involved in the process, the longer it takes and the more screwed up the actual process becomes. What should have taken a year at most to approve dragged out nine years from the incessant infighting between the government agencies attempting to throw their weight around and be the big hog at the slop trough. :rotflmao:
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
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