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Easter Pig!

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Replies

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,988 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    Yep. A lot of the tales of "bulletproof" pigs is based on the anatomy of a pig:



    The heart is further forward and lower than most people expect. same with the neck and spine.

    That's almost exactly how he was standing when I shot him as well. Only difference, I think his off side leg was a little back. Since the round went through the off leg bone after piercing the heart.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,859 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    I've heard of pigs being up there. But, I've never seen any.

    There's some up there for sure. I don't think there's a huge population of them up there yet, but they are there. Last deer hunt I was on up there I ran accross a guy hunting hogs. Kinda strange to be up there hunting hogs while there are people everywhere hunting deer, but more power to him. He said he had taken a few hogs in that area. I've seen large wallows and areas of torn up ground from rooting all over the place up there. Just haven't seen a pig yet. If I do spot one, it will likely become a target of opportunity and hopefully go home with me in the back of my truck.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,988 Senior Member
    Don't be a hater.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,988 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    How could I NOT?

    Well then, I guess I should just say, "Thanks".
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,988 Senior Member
    The results are in:

    After cleaning and weighing the recovered portion of the .30cal 168gr A-Max bullet.

    *Not recommended for hunting, mind you.*

    The result was 108grs in weight lost after causing all the damage you saw above.

    168grA-MaxthroughHog.jpg

    The recovered bullet weighed 60gr.

    Complete and utter dissatisfaction on my part with the performance of this bullet. A TRUE hunting bullet would have retained MUCH more weight and killed the hog in a more effecient manner by completely penetrating the hog at 250 yards.

    In light of my findings..........I must follow suit with Hornady and NOT recommend the A-Max as a hunting bullet. Besides, they said it first. So, they must be right. Who am I to go against the recommendations of a company. I will therefore, no longer utilize the A-Max bullet in the killing of common air breathing creatures.

    NOT!!!!!


    Of course I will continue to use the A-Max! It is a stellar performer on the range and in the field. Only a fool would think otherwise.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,474 Senior Member
    Go ahead and tell us how you really feel................
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • Rim PhyrRim Phyr Member Posts: 71 Member
    Holey Hog!!!
    Good shot with the gun and great shots with the camera.
    Thanks for introducing another generation to the great outdoors.
    Maybe I missed it but, what rifle (scope if any) did you use?
    I used the same round from a Savage in .308 on a big thick 8 point buck at 200 yds. and had similar internal results but I didn't retrieve the bullet it went through.
    Unfortunately I didn't document the bullet travel on camera but I saw the path of destruction and the bruising exit wound.
    Nice job and thanks for taking the time to share your fun experience.
  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 8,110 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    He used a Tasco 3x9 scope.

    Mounted on his Savage.............
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,920 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    The results are in:

    After cleaning and weighing the recovered portion of the .30cal 168gr A-Max bullet.

    *Not recommended for hunting, mind you.*

    The result was 108grs in weight lost after causing all the damage you saw above.

    168grA-MaxthroughHog.jpg

    The recovered bullet weighed 60gr.

    Complete and utter dissatisfaction on my part with the performance of this bullet. A TRUE hunting bullet would have retained MUCH more weight and killed the hog in a more effecient manner by completely penetrating the hog at 250 yards.

    In light of my findings..........I must follow suit with Hornady and NOT recommend the A-Max as a hunting bullet. Besides, they said it first. So, they must be right. Who am I to go against the recommendations of a company. I will therefore, no longer utilize the A-Max bullet in the killing of common air breathing creatures.

    NOT!!!!!


    Of course I will continue to use the A-Max! It is a stellar performer on the range and in the field. Only a fool would think otherwise.

    This is opportune...I was thoroughly upbraided today as an unethical hunter because I use bullets "not designed" for hunting, that being the A-Max,SMK and Hornady BTHPs.... here's the argument... I had documented one shot kill after one shot kill and this is what I got back...

    "Just because it has been used with success doesn't mean to use it is ethical. It wasn't designed for it. That is the ethical ground."

    I was informed that all it's going to do is blow up, cause a superficial wound and that my quarry would stagger off and die a horrible, lingering death

    I kinda figure dead is dead...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,973 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    Yep. He's quartered and in the cooler letting ice melt through it for a couple days.

    Ill eat them up to about 250-300 pounds. Really just depends on the hog. Sows, yes. Boars.......if they are all rank, scarred, **** filled and such........no.

    Im going to grind this one up and mix it with some antelope meat I need to grind. Should taste alright.

    Consider adding some pork fat to it to make it a bit more edible.

    So you plowed though two shoulders. Did you hit where you were aiming and if so, why not a head shot? I am supposing it was dark and hard to see well so you chose center mass instead?

    How much meat did you get? I am getting about 30 - 35% meat to weight.

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,988 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    This is opportune...I was thoroughly upbraided today as an unethical hunter because I use bullets "not designed" for hunting, that being the A-Max,SMK and Hornady BTHPs.... here's the argument... I had documented one shot kill after one shot kill and this is what I got back...

    "Just because it has been used with success doesn't mean to use it is ethical. It wasn't designed for it. That is the ethical ground."

    I was informed that all it's going to do is blow up, cause a superficial wound and that my quarry would stagger off and die a horrible, lingering death

    I kinda figure dead is dead...

    Some folks are just determined to be ignorant.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,988 Senior Member
    BigDanS wrote: »
    Consider adding some pork fat to it to make it a bit more edible.

    So you plowed though two shoulders. Did you hit where you were aiming and if so, why not a head shot? I am supposing it was dark and hard to see well so you chose center mass instead?

    How much meat did you get? I am getting about 30 - 35% meat to weight.

    D

    MY usually add 8-10% pork fat the the grind.

    Yes. I hit where I was aiming. Now, even though I am an unethical hunter and believe in the use of head shots, I didn't dwell too long on its consideration for this shot. I looked at the pig, considered the head, but decided on the body instead. With the kit I was using........I could see fine.

    Sometimes, I just like seeing what the bullet does to the chest cavity. I know what it'll do to the brain.

    Meat is still in the cooler. Haven't taken it to grind yet. Don't know how much.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • KSU FirefighterKSU Firefighter Senior Member Posts: 3,249 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    This is opportune...I was thoroughly upbraided today as an unethical hunter because I use bullets "not designed" for hunting, that being the A-Max,SMK and Hornady BTHPs.... here's the argument... I had documented one shot kill after one shot kill and this is what I got back...

    "Just because it has been used with success doesn't mean to use it is ethical. It wasn't designed for it. That is the ethical ground."

    I was informed that all it's going to do is blow up, cause a superficial wound and that my quarry would stagger off and die a horrible, lingering death

    I kinda figure dead is dead...

    So, using something that is less accurate, but is determined by some marketing guy to be a "hunting" round, possibly allowing for a sloppy hit, potentially causing some animal to suffer needlessly, would be more "ethical" than using a bullet, not determined by a marketing guy to be a hunting round, that delivers one shot kills every time you use it.
    The fire service needs a "culture of extinguishment not safety" Ray McCormack FDNY
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,988 Senior Member
    That's when you just smile and wave.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 8,148 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    Some folks are just determined to be ignorant.


    I also think that a lot of people take "not designed for hunting" as a literal contraindication for the bullet rather than a disclaimer. All Hornady is saying to the masses is "hey, we cared about nothing more than accuracy when we designed the A-Max. If you take it hunting and it's not up to your expectations, don't say we didn't warn you." For guy who expect full penetration everytime, that might be the case, but as you have illustrated, that one standard hardly makes it insufficient for hunting.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,988 Senior Member
    Yes, but the ignorant part comes from hearing someone who uses the A-Max extensively and others almost exclusively with great success in terminal performance and STILL think it should not be used for hunting. Choosing not to use it is fine. Saying others should not because the company didn't design it as such.............is ignorant.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,797 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    Yes, but the ignorant part comes from hearing someone who uses the A-Max extensively and others almost exclusively with great success in terminal performance and STILL think it should not be used for hunting. Choosing not to use it is fine. Saying others should not because the company didn't design it as such.............is ignorant.


    Actually, ignorance is not knowing. When someone is presented with information and facts and still disagrees, they evolve into the arena of stupid.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,988 Senior Member
    I'll buy that.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,797 Senior Member
    The more I think about it, I wish you would have posted the pictures without telling anyone which bullet you used. I wonder if anyone would have guessed that carnage was done by an A-max.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,093 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »

    I was informed that all it's going to do is blow up, cause a superficial wound and that my quarry would stagger off and die a horrible, lingering death
    What's funny Jayhawker. is the ONLY bullet I've ever had blow up on me on a whitetail WAS a designated "hunting" bullet.
    A 155gr Berger "Hunting" VLD (In the cute "hunter orange" box and everything) At a Lased 117 yards it made an ENTRY wound I could not cover with a splayed hand. I couldn't find even a NICK of the offside inside of the chest on a 80-90# doe.

    Edited to add:
    Deer did fall DRT, but I want more penetration and a second hole.
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,474 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    This is opportune...I was thoroughly upbraided today as an unethical hunter because I use bullets "not designed" for hunting, that being the A-Max,SMK and Hornady BTHPs.... here's the argument... I had documented one shot kill after one shot kill and this is what I got back...

    "Just because it has been used with success doesn't mean to use it is ethical. It wasn't designed for it. That is the ethical ground."

    I was informed that all it's going to do is blow up, cause a superficial wound and that my quarry would stagger off and die a horrible, lingering death

    I kinda figure dead is dead...
    Was this on a forum or face-to-face?
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,920 Senior Member
    This was another forum.....the real rant was a LOT longer than that....grew out of a discussion about the removal of caliber restrictions for deer....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,988 Senior Member
    Send the poor sap this this thread.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,988 Senior Member
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,920 Senior Member
    Those will work...thanks!
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    So what you are saying is there's not enough difference in a hunting bullet and a target bullet to warrant a distinction?

    First of all, a hunting bullet has a thicker more substantial jacket than a target bullet does, and it's probably bonded to the core better. This enhances penetration. In doing so you will have more weight retention of the bullet after the fact. You yourself admitted that your bullet lost well over half its weight killing this hog.

    Now don't get me wrong, I too have used target bullets on game. But i stress that when I have done this, it was when I was very confident with my shot placement and I was fairly certain I wouldn't hit any thick bone, AND I did it on a whitetail doe, not a boar hog.

    And did you ever think that some of these naysayers may have had a bad experience shooting game with a match bullet or at least known people that had?

    No, even though I've done this and may well do it again, I can't in good faith give it a universal blessing as a good practice. All bullets are not created equal in performance.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,988 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    So what you are saying is there's not enough difference in a hunting bullet and a target bullet to warrant a distinction?

    Uh, no. Where did you come up with this?

    First of all, a hunting bullet has a thicker more substantial jacket than a target bullet does, and it's probably bonded to the core better. This enhances penetration. In doing so you will have more weight retention of the bullet after the fact. You yourself admitted that your bullet lost well over half its weight killing this hog.

    Look what you just wrote. If it killed the hog as fast and effeciently as it did, who cares HOW much weight it lost?

    Now don't get me wrong, I too have used target bullets on game. But i stress that when I have done this, it was when I was very confident with my shot placement and I was fairly certain I wouldn't hit any thick bone, AND I did it on a whitetail doe, not a boar hog.

    What's your point? I don't shoot unless I am confident of my shot placement, period! Regardless the bullet. Shouldn't you?


    And did you ever think that some of these naysayers may have had a bad experience shooting game with a match bullet or at least known people that had?

    We are not discussing ALL match bullets. We as discussing the A-Max bullet. No, the folks I'm referencing are those that have never even used the bullet but say that others should not because Hornady doesn't recommend it for hunting. I mentioned this earlier in this thread. Try reading and comprehending. I don't care if a person chooses NOT to use it. I care if a person with zero experience with the A-Max (like yourself) recommends others not simply because of speculation. Regardless the excellent results others had and continue to have with the A-Max.


    No, even though I've done this and may well do it again, I can't in good faith give it a universal blessing as a good practice. All bullets are not created equal in performance.

    Have you ever used an A-Max? If not, you are one of the people I'm referencing. No experience with the bullet but plenty of opinion on it. None of which, ties into the experiences those that have used it have had.


    .
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,988 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    All bullets are not created equal in performance.

    You said it yourself. So, how can you have an educated opinion on the A-Max if you've never used it for hunting?

    I've used SMK bullets on live targets and was not impressed with the terminal performance. Yeah, it worked. But, not to the extent of my liking.

    There is NO comparrison between the terminal performance of a SMK and an A-Max. None that I have seen in several upon several examples.

    Don't knock'em till you try'em.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    You said it yourself. So, how can you have an educated opinion on the A-Max if you've never used it for hunting?

    I've used SMK bullets on live targets and was not impressed with the terminal performance. Yeah, it worked. But, not to the extent of my liking.

    There is NO comparrison between the terminal performance of a SMK and an A-Max. None that I have seen in several upon several examples.

    Don't knock'em till you try'em.

    OK, but I still think you're getting ahead of yourself here. Like I said, I have used SMKs on game with what I considered decent results, but I didn't research that results to see how much weight the bullet retained or any other specifics other than what I saw with my own eyes. Also, I don't want to start a war between A-Max's and SMKs. I have used Match Kings and they worked the few times I did it. But I'm not going to go tell the world I think they have crossed over from match to hunting bullet based on my relatively few examples. Hell, a 22 lr might do a good job 75% of the time within 100 yards but that doesn't mean I think they should be made legal to hunt deer with.

    And yes you're right. I have never used A-Maxes, neither on paper or on animals. The only reason I used Match Kings was because back then I was shooting my Ruger 77 .308 and had some 168 grain MKs loaded for it. I also had some 150 grain GKs for it, but I decided to try the MKs. And they worked very well. Of course i shot two deer, one in the neck and one behind the shoulder between the ribs. I might as well had a 300 WBY Mag with a 200 grain whatever because both those deer died on the spot. The one I hit in the neck was a real mess. His neck looked like a cork screw. It hit him like an 18 pound canon ball. But I still won't recommend them for hunting to anyone but myself.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,474 Senior Member
    Part of the difference with Zee's experience, is not a few times.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
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