Grow up and grow a pair!

BPsniperBPsniper BannedPosts: 1,962 Senior Member
All you guys wanting to bail out of this place need to stop acting like a bunch of teenage girls who got their feelings hurt! Nobody has been banned and nobody has been run off! If you leave, it's because you got your feelings hurt like a girl and aren't man enough to stick around and see that things are run right. Basically, you are letting a 25 year old NEW GUY scare you in less than 20 posts!

How is he going to learn if you leave? How is this place going to remain the best forum on the net if you bail? How did this place BECOME the best in the first place? The members!!!!! You let some new guy come in here with no sense and make several mistakes. Enough to hurt your little feelings so you can run away and say, "Well, I showed HIM." What did you show him? About all I can see is that you act like a little pansy at the first sight of trouble or difficulty. Man up!!!

Life ain't easy and the things you want and cherrish most are things that come with hard work and adversity. You think my life is easy? You think my job is easy? Do you think my marriage is easy? Hell no! But they are all important to me and worth the pain and trials to keep them. So is this place. I thought it was to you guys as well. Aparently not. Just a few shots over your heads and you tuck tail and run for cover. Whatever happened to standing your ground and pressing the threat? Wow! I learned a lot about a few folks today.

You guys just remember as you run away, I will be standing here with a few other long term members holding the line and covering your butts so you can make a respectful retreat. At leas, I HOPE there are other members that will stay with me. But if not........here I am. Fighting until I've nothing left. Working to keep this place the way it was and SHOULD be. Why? Because I like it. Because SOMEBODY has to and the ship jumpers sure as HELL ain't gonna do it.

I'd like you all to stay. You've taught me a lot and you all are the reason I'm here in the first place. I wasn't looking for a forum when I found this one and see no reason to look for another now. This is MY home. This is YOUR home. You don't want to defend it.......I will! Sure could use some help from those who taught me so much over the years.

I love you guys and I'll miss you if you leave. But I sure won't cry over your tracks heading to the rear while my toes point forward. I wish you'd stay. This is not meant to offend. My hope is that it will motivate you to stay. I sure could use the help and I have a lot more to learn from you guys. But if not........drop your mags at my feet before you scamper off because I'll sure as HELL put them to use.

Love you guys.
"....the true general purpose big-game cartridges used in this country come in but two calibers, .30 and 7mm. (the .270 Win. is merely a slightly aberrant 7mm whose bullets are .007" undersize.) -Finn Aagaard - American Rifleman, December 1986
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Replies

  • calebibcalebib Senior Member Posts: 1,701 Senior Member
    You make a good point, I had not thought of it from that perspective. I'm tired and my feet hurt, I may have overreacted. I'll stick around for now to see what course this place takes but I'll be keeping my fallback position in sight.

    Thanks
  • BakermanBakerman Member Posts: 382 Member
    Interesting........I must have missed something taking care of the wife. Is this a revolt of the grumpy old men or the young pups?
    Bakerman formerly known as Bakerman
  • shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Senior Member Posts: 5,299 Senior Member
    I agree with BP wholeheartedly, ditching this forum is not the answer. The spirit of the forum is a collective "feel" of the place that has been created through Dan Johnson's initiative and dedication, plus the other moderators he eventually brought into the fold, as well as the collective knowledge offered here by people such as Teach, BP Sniper, Dan Chamberlain, and many, many others.

    HOWEVER, what brings a lot of people to this place initially is the Guns and Ammo name. There is no way around this. I've read more than a few new member introductions where they say "I saw a link on the Guns and Ammo homepage, and here I am!" We will NOT have that same opportunity to bring new members into the fold at this other place that people are jumping ship to. People come for the name, stay for the wisdom, but they MUST have a way to find the wisdom to begin with.

    I am reminded of my first assignment in the Army, just 13 months ago. We got a new Commander with a reputation for being a hardnosed leader. Former NonComm, Drill Sergeant, Infantryman turned Officer type. Literally in my first drill weekend my brand new platoon that I had just taken control of (same weekend as the Commander taking the company) had 3 very experienced NCO's who had been with the unit since its conception about 5-7 years earlier jump ship once they got wind of the CO's supposed plans.

    Things were horrible, downright ridiculous for months. The new CO dumped the unit into situations that none of the leaders had been required to handle before and weren't ready for. He made a lot of decisions that even as a completely green Platoon Leader I was very skeptical about, and comments from my NonComms who had 20+ years of experience confirmed my worries. But, you know what? Things worked out. The Platoon Leaders and NonComms got a feel for the CO, and he got a better feel for the Soldiers. I am no longer with that unit (went from Ordnance to Medical), but I keep tabs, and from what I can tell they are working much better now.

    The moral of the story? This new guy jumped in and made some rash comments and, apparently, decisions. So what? He's new, it's going to happen. If we keep steadfast, kind of like the NonComms in my unit who refused to bail on their young Soldiers (and quite frankly, us clueless 2LT's with no prior service), things will pan out.

    I'll sign up on this "other" forum so I can keep in touch with some of you people who I almost like :jester: . With that said, I refuse to give up on this forum just yet. So what, we have a new guy, whatever. He'll learn one way or the other. Y'all do what you want, myself and others who aren't ready to ditch will keep the fire going for you.
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "It's far easier to start out learning to be precise and then speeding up, than it is having never "mastered" the weapon, and trying to be precise." - Dan C
  • ghostsniper1ghostsniper1 Banned Posts: 2,645 Senior Member
    Sweet speach BP. I was thinking along the same lines but knew damn well that I couldn't say it do to my still being kinda green and all. I have to agree that things have gone awry in the last few weeks since Dans passing, (even I used some foul language in a few posts,) but I think we all need to sit back and give this site a chance to level out. To hell with the blogs, TV shows, bed partners or whatever. Lets strive to be the G&A that I stumbled upon and was intruiged by the vast knowledge and lack of mall ninjas so long ago. This place is one of a kind, and I for one will not drink the cool aid or be run off either one.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 14,255 Senior Member
    ... And was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?



    But seriously. I am with you BP. A forum isn't anything without it's members. This is about us and what we put into it. Everything else is just a minor distraction. That is all.
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    I like it when you express yourself, could you just be a little more passionate :jester:
  • N454casullN454casull Member Posts: 344 Member
    Thanks, that is part of what I was trying to say/ment. You just did it with a little more force lol
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 6,706 Senior Member
    :uhm:OK. . .I guess I missed the fireworks.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 17,766 Senior Member
    BP, elsewhere you implied I was, "continually spreading half information"

    Yet you all but address this post to ME completely overlooking my post I made 5 posts above yours in the "forum and other stuff thread"
    knitepoet wrote: »
    Ben

    <snip>

    I chatted with you on FB to get a feel for how to handle the change over. You seemed to be a likeable guy. I can't say what I'm going to do "forum wise, because honestly, as of right now, I don't know.

    I expect I'm going to take a "wait and see" attitude to see how things shake out.
    AND you felt you must post a link in one thread, to another thread AFTER accusing me of making multiple posts because I moved one post to a more appropriate thread (AND DELETED the original) :nono:
    :hand:
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • BakermanBakerman Member Posts: 382 Member
    Been my observation in the past when someone announces they are leaving in a dramatic way they usually come back later. It seems much ado about nothing. If you're going just go. But remember it's just talk.
    Bakerman formerly known as Bakerman
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 17,766 Senior Member
    Bakerman wrote: »
    Been my observation in the past when someone announces they are leaving in a dramatic way they usually come back later. It seems much ado about nothing. If you're going just go. But remember it's just talk.
    If that's addressed to ME, I never said I was going ANYWHERE I said I expected to take a "wait and see" attitude
    knitepoet wrote: »
    I expect I'm going to take a "wait and see" attitude to see how things shake out.
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • ghostsniper1ghostsniper1 Banned Posts: 2,645 Senior Member
    So I haven't heard any from Teach on here. I take it he just up and split???
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 17,766 Senior Member
    So I haven't heard any from Teach on here. I take it he just up and split???
    That's the last I heard from him when I spoke with him on the phone earlier today
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • NyGunownerNyGunowner Banned Posts: 328 Member
    I agree with BP wholeheartedly, ditching this forum is not the answer. The spirit of the forum is a collective "feel" of the place that has been created through Dan Johnson's initiative and dedication, plus the other moderators he eventually brought into the fold, as well as the collective knowledge offered here by people such as Teach, BP Sniper, Dan Chamberlain, and many, many others.

    HOWEVER, what brings a lot of people to this place initially is the Guns and Ammo name. There is no way around this. I've read more than a few new member introductions where they say "I saw a link on the Guns and Ammo homepage, and here I am!" We will NOT have that same opportunity to bring new members into the fold at this other place that people are jumping ship to. People come for the name, stay for the wisdom, but they MUST have a way to find the wisdom to begin with.

    I am reminded of my first assignment in the Army, just 13 months ago. We got a new Commander with a reputation for being a hardnosed leader. Former NonComm, Drill Sergeant, Infantryman turned Officer type. Literally in my first drill weekend my brand new platoon that I had just taken control of (same weekend as the Commander taking the company) had 3 very experienced NCO's who had been with the unit since its conception about 5-7 years earlier jump ship once they got wind of the CO's supposed plans.

    Things were horrible, downright ridiculous for months. The new CO dumped the unit into situations that none of the leaders had been required to handle before and weren't ready for. He made a lot of decisions that even as a completely green Platoon Leader I was very skeptical about, and comments from my NonComms who had 20+ years of experience confirmed my worries. But, you know what? Things worked out. The Platoon Leaders and NonComms got a feel for the CO, and he got a better feel for the Soldiers. I am no longer with that unit (went from Ordnance to Medical), but I keep tabs, and from what I can tell they are working much better now.

    The moral of the story? This new guy jumped in and made some rash comments and, apparently, decisions. So what? He's new, it's going to happen. If we keep steadfast, kind of like the NonComms in my unit who refused to bail on their young Soldiers (and quite frankly, us clueless 2LT's with no prior service), things will pan out.

    I'll sign up on this "other" forum so I can keep in touch with some of you people who I almost like :jester: . With that said, I refuse to give up on this forum just yet. So what, we have a new guy, whatever. He'll learn one way or the other. Y'all do what you want, myself and others who aren't ready to ditch will keep the fire going for you.

    Ok, you got my attention SS3. I remember wheen you were a 13 yr old pest (JK) who hung around us old men and learned something......

    The G&A name got us here to start with, nearly all of us, but it was the community and comradeship BUILT here by the members (Dan was the watchful guide, but it was members who built this). that kept us coming back.

    Now having said that, with Dan gone, Scott gone, and the ARCHIVES gone (whatever bonehead allowed that vulnerability ought to have primers sprinkled on his cereal), the old days are dead. It will be up to whoever contributes from this point forward to either build a new forum in the image of the old one, or to build a new forum sharing only the name. I guess I'll give it a whirl, but it ain't gonna be easy, seeing as in many ways it already seems like we're living in the ashes of what once was.....

    And Ben, if ya read this, know that YES this WAS a community of respectful FRIENDS who valued each other as men (and a few women) first, and shooters second.

    I hope your replacement admin works out, as frankly, I kinda doubt you have the "chops" to be taken seriously here. Sure, you can ban peolpe if they irritate you but that'll likely have a negative net effect on the COMMUNITY, a community that existed when you were in middle school, a community many folks are pretty heavily invested in. You'd do well as a MEMBER most likely, but yer like a brand new 2LT tossed in with some battle-weary grunts. Be careful somebody don't misdirect ya in front of a mortar (figuratively f course) if ya git too big fer yer britches.

    There is NOWHERE else in cyberspace you could find folks willing to spend ALL DAY on the phone helping a member fix a broke gun. There is nowhere else a 13 yr old member could email another member with socks that old, ask questions and get repectful, serious answers. or where half a dozen folks would spend ALL NIGHT online discussing BC as a velocity dependant variable (even Dan admitted after decades of writing about the subject, he learned in that thread he had been wrong.) To have lost those conversations is about like losing the family Bible. it ain't just a book ya can replace at walmart......
  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 38,330 Senior Member
    It really has nothing to do with fear of the new kid. And I am one that understands that (see my other post in the SOG thread) that they REALLY DONT GIVE A who stays and who goes. Because in the grand scheme of things, they really dont. And Im cool with that. Its not my forum. (If it was mine, I would have had back ups, which, BTW, was a complete load of when we were told that they didnt have backups. Sorry, I dont buy it. Just sayin)


    Always tease tease tease
    You’re happy when I’m on my knees
    One day is fine, next day is black
    So if you want me off your back
    Well come on and let me know
    Should I stay or should I go?


    ETA: I aint leaving, but I also have no illusions it will be the same as before. Cause it wont. Of course, we can make it what we want, but it wont ever be the same.
    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 12,726 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »


    Always tease tease tease
    You’re happy when I’m on my knees
    One day is fine, next day is black
    So if you want me off your back
    Well come on and let me know
    Should I stay or should I go?

    Hey, numbnuts...

    http://forums.gunsandammo.com/showthread.php?1321-Tonight-s-Musical-Interlude...
    Overkill is underrated.
  • BPsniperBPsniper Banned Posts: 1,962 Senior Member
    knitepoet wrote: »
    ...... elsewhere you implied I was, "continually spreading half information"

    Yet you all but address this post to ME completely overlooking my post I made 5 posts above yours in the "forum and other stuff thread"
    AND you felt you must post a link in one thread, to another thread AFTER accusing me of making multiple posts because I moved one post to a more appropriate thread (AND DELETED the original) :nono:
    :hand:

    Wasn't addressed to YOU. It is addressed to anyone wanting to jump ship and my attempt to get them to stay. I posted this elsewhere in order to help SAVE this forum. Not destroy it. So yes, I'm guilty. I don't care. When it comes to fighting for what I love.......no hold bar.

    I saw your earlier post. Didn't know what to make of it as it was somewhat arguementative still. Couldn't tell if you were making ammends or stoking the fire. But your stupid countdown thing sure ain't helping. Your stupid "looks like the exodus is already starting" (or whatever it was) sure doesn't breed steadfastness. Whose side are you one anyway? Do you want this place to live or die?

    I love you, my friend. You are a brother to me. But you SEEM to be playing two sides to this. "I was only letting people know where Teach is." Then comment poorly about what is going on here and how the new guy wants to run people off or ban them. Who gives a flying rip what the new guy wants or does? This is OUR house till the key changes. Help me keep it that way.

    I'm not attacking you, my friend. I just don't agree with some of the things you've done or at least seem to be doing. But my arms are still ready to slap you on the back and drink a beer with ya.
    "....the true general purpose big-game cartridges used in this country come in but two calibers, .30 and 7mm. (the .270 Win. is merely a slightly aberrant 7mm whose bullets are .007" undersize.) -Finn Aagaard - American Rifleman, December 1986
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,246 Senior Member
    I guess it is time to chime in.


    What has happened for the most part is how life is and always has been for humans
    friends die, friends move on to new places. Some friends you never see or hear from again; all it means is they are busy and have new things to do with their life. Other friends keep in touch or stay in the group, town, organization; etc, and make things work as well as they had been working.


    Also, leadership positions change and the group makes it work. New leaders need help from everyone in the organization at one time or another. Here we do not work for any of the corporate people, but, they provide the means for us to have a very enjoyable forum and we make or break the forum by what we contribute or what contributions we ignore or ridicule.


    It is now time for our members to act as if we are the family we said we were in the past and cherish the good memories of those of us that passed or moved on to create what they believe are better things for themselves and their dependants and welcome new family members as they arrive or get appointed here.


    And face up to the reality that there will be more personnel changes in the future as people get new jobs or promotions.


    It is now time to move forward with the forum and continue being the best forum on the web. To do so, we need all the old hands to remain part of the group!


    I plan on staying, I believe I have friends here, and I enjoyed meeting some of them at the SE Shoots and hope to wear my shrimp shirt there again.
    This message has been deleted
  • jbohiojbohio Senior Member Posts: 5,404 Senior Member
    Good speech. You should be a coach. My skin's thick, I'll be staying.
    You're right, it is home.
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    NN wrote: »
    I guess it is time to chime in.


    What has happened for the most part is how life is and always has been for humans
    friends die, friends move on to new places. Some friends you never see or hear from again; all it means is they are busy and have new things to do with their life. Other friends keep in touch or stay in the group, town, organization; etc, and make things work as well as they had been working.


    Also, leadership positions change and the group makes it work. New leaders need help from everyone in the organization at one time or another. Here we do not work for any of the corporate people, but, they provide the means for us to have a very enjoyable forum and we make or break the forum by what we contribute or what contributions we ignore or ridicule.


    It is now time for our members to act as if we are the family we said we were in the past and cherish the good memories of those of us that passed or moved on to create what they believe are better things for themselves and their dependants and welcome new family members as they arrive or get appointed here.


    And face up to the reality that there will be more personnel changes in the future as people get new jobs or promotions.


    It is now time to move forward with the forum and continue being the best forum on the web. To do so, we need all the old hands to remain part of the group!


    I plan on staying, I believe I have friends here, and I enjoyed meeting some of them at the SE Shoots and hope to wear my shrimp shirt there again.

    Thank you NN and BP, I had to work real hard to gain a place in the family and it was hard and I love this forum and have come to appreciate many on this forum even though at times I do not agree with some. Yes!!! Let us all hang in there, this is a place where we have all played a part and I am not going anywhere nor am I giving up on this forum. We who have been a part for a little while or for a long time can make this place even better than it has been. There is a lot of combined Knowledge on this forum and years of experience. Well said NN
  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 38,330 Senior Member
    Sorry, I hadnt got that far yet.
    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,229 Senior Member
    I don't know whats happening, but i'm staying.

    I like talking about guns and gardens, and this is the best/only place I have found that does both. Sure you can type on any number of gun forums, which I am sure we all have, but they are not generally "the same" as here. Once you decide to stay here long enough and try to soak-in/add-to the HUGE wealth of information, you basically become part of a "Kinship". Sure, we sometimes disagree on things, but 98% of the time it is civil.

    It is the members that make this site what it is. We lost a couple members and it stings pretty bad right now, so I get the frustration. But there are way too many other "valued" members left to close down shop just yet.

    I just hope we get some good newbies in.
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 9,984 Senior Member
    I missed something, I am not going as long as decorum (kid friendly) is maintained and folks still want to talk about all things related to guns and such .
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 6,742 Senior Member
    I'm in!
    I'm new here, really new, but I really like the members here.
    Have mistakes been made? Yes.
    But that is no reason, at least for me to even consider elsewhere.
    Change and trouble is simply a part of life.
    How we approach it and deal with it determines the type of person we are.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 14,089 Senior Member
    I'm a bitter-ender...I'll be here to shut off the lights and lock the door. I know how to stay in touch with my friends that have decamped, I can get in touch with them as often as I need to...but us old guys have entirely too much invested in this place to just walk off...especially over something as inconsequential as Sons of Guns and a new admin that is testing the water....remember...the most dangerous thing in the world is a 2Lt with a compass...(no offense Ben)
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 17,766 Senior Member
    This is one thing I totally disagree with
    BPsniper wrote: »
    This is OUR house till the key changes.
    No, it's NOT our house, never has been and never will be. This is "THEIR" house, and they just let us visit.
    "THEY" allow us to stay, individually and as a group, at their whim and can decide to ban any/all of us, or pull the plug completely whenever they see fit.
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • BPsniperBPsniper Banned Posts: 1,962 Senior Member
    knitepoet wrote: »
    This is one thing I totally disagree with

    No, it's NOT our house, never has been and never will be. This is "THEIR" house, and they just let us visit.
    "THEY" allow us to stay, individually and as a group, at their whim and can decide to ban any/all of us, or pull the plug completely whenever they see fit.

    Hence my "till the key gets changed" statement. They may own it but I live here. So I consider it ours or at least MINE. View it how you like. This is my house.
    "....the true general purpose big-game cartridges used in this country come in but two calibers, .30 and 7mm. (the .270 Win. is merely a slightly aberrant 7mm whose bullets are .007" undersize.) -Finn Aagaard - American Rifleman, December 1986
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    BPsniper wrote: »
    Hence my "till the key gets changed" statement. They may own it but I live here. So I consider it ours or at least MINE. View it how you like. This is my house.

    +ONE, They may own it but I live here and we the members give it its essence - is the attribute or set of attributes that make an object or substance what it fundamentally is, and which it has by necessity, and without which it loses its identity. Nuff said.
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 6,706 Senior Member
    Now that I'm all caught up and posted on the thread that spawned this one. . .

    Well said, BP. Like William Shatner said in his SNL Star Trek Convention parody "It's just a TV show, ****. . .It's just a TV show". Sons of Guns is NOT worth fragging the forum over. G&A hosts this place, but they pretty much have always left it alone. Like you say, it's OUR house more than theirs.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • ilove22silove22s Senior Member Posts: 1,057 Senior Member
    i too missed whats going on.

    but i will still try to give my 02 when i can.

    to me this place and other forums are not ours, its whoever in charge of the servers and system. we, the guests, can make or break it, but in the end, we dont control it. afa change goes, theres alot of it going on and eventho i dont like it, i accept it. if the mods are going to change or add flags, then im sure the new mod will run it as he/shes sees fit, good or bad.
    The ears never lie.

    - Don Burt
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