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  • AiredaleAiredale Banned Posts: 624 Senior Member
    My solution is basically what Teach said.
    Fundamental Islam is a threat to all people of any religion, that's why I said that we may have been better off in not aiding the taliban while Russia was at war with them.
  • AiredaleAiredale Banned Posts: 624 Senior Member
    Mike,
    All Muslims are not fundamentalists
    Iran is a fundamental Muslim nation, not Iraq.
    Iran is run by islamic fundamentalists, they rule by sharia law.
    Iraq was ruled by the dictator Hussien.
    He suppressed anyone who opposed him.
    Power, not religion motivated his actions.
    Fundamentalists believe that they should impose their religious beliefs on everyone. By any means.
    The big arguement between Shiites and Sunnis is the succesion of leadership from the "prophet" mohammed.
    Hussien was a brutal dictator, but not a fundamental muslim.
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 6,244 Senior Member
    Airedale wrote: »
    My solution is basically what Teach said.
    Fundamental Islam is a threat to all people of any religion, that's why I said that we may have been better off in not aiding the taliban while Russia was at war with them.

    Kill em all, huh?
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 6,244 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    I'll bet you a box of your favorite ammo that this will change in less than five years. Drone strikes have already killed an American on foriegn soil. Even the AG said there are situations that require killing Americans on Amrican soil.

    His response to Rand Paul said that the executive branch does not have the authority to do so.
  • Dr. dbDr. db Senior Member Posts: 1,541 Senior Member
    I don't understand. If we support Saddam because he's a btard but we need a btard to keep things in check the liberals complain. If we get rid of him they complain.
    The only thing I know is that only about 10% of the worlds billion Muslims are even potential radicals. The problem is that is 100 million people so we can't kill them all.
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Kaniksu Nat'l Forest, IDPosts: 5,486 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    His response to Rand Paul said that the executive branch does not have the authority to do so.

    The executive branch does not have the authority. LA County Sheriffs on the other hand...doesn't matter who orders it, does it?
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • ghostsniper1ghostsniper1 Banned O HI OPosts: 2,645 Senior Member
    Face the facts guys, we won't EVER be able to wipe out or stop terrorists. Especially domestic. Look at how much chaos one single white male (Timothy McVeigh) caused. ANY person with half a brain is capable of it. All it takes is evil to top off the recipe.
  • ApexxApexx Member Posts: 111 Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    I'll bet you a box of your favorite ammo that this will change in less than five years. Drone strikes have already killed an American on foriegn soil.

    While I share your general distrust of the government and typically not a betting man, I would take your bet all day long. I could not imagine the fallout that would result if a drone strike happened on US soil without giving someone due process. I think it is more probable and likely that our 2nd amendment rights would be wittled away to next to nothing before a US citizen is taken out by a drone on US soil without due process. Kind of hard for a drone to detain and read someone their Miranda rights from 2,000 feet.
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Somewhere north of MozambiquePosts: 6,637 Senior Member
    Apexx wrote: »
    While I share your general distrust of the government and typically not a betting man, I would take your bet all day long. I could not imagine the fallout that would result if a drone strike happened on US soil without giving someone due process. I think it is more probable and likely that our 2nd amendment rights would be wittled away to next to nothing before a US citizen is taken out by a drone on US soil without due process. Kind of hard for a drone to detain and read someone their Miranda rights from 2,000 feet.


    This is true, but how many times in recent memory have we seen government entities willing and almost eager to ignore the rules because their actions were 'in the public interest'? Frankly, I'm not hopeful that this trend will subside. It is apparently much easier to apologize for doing 'X' (or blame 'X' on an over-eager worker bee) than it is to just make sure not to do 'X' in the first place.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Dellrose TNPosts: 18,428 Senior Member
    It's also kind of hard to imagine a government agency supplying thousands of guns to drug runners in another country, and trying to blame honest businessmen for it, isn't it? I wouldn't trust this particular administration in an outhouse with a muzzle on!
    Jerry
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    I'm glad we spent them into bankruptcy, and that they were longer a threat. I fail to see how them not being a threat is a bad thing.


    The problem now with Russia is in my opinion, two fold. One Putin, Hes an old KGB man and I suspect a communist at heart. That can't go well for us or the world. Two, Oil prices are high now and Russia also doesn't occupy all those satillite countries so they now have the funds to be a threat to us again.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    Apexx wrote: »
    Right. Because oppressive aggression against groups of muslims doesn't fuel extremism. Sure we can disrupt their organizations, but we will never eradicate a group that believes they are a righteous holy resistance.
    Occupation of a muslim country only fuels the fire. Our intelligence community was seriously depleted post Cold War pre 911. We got hit because we were not manning the watchtower. We needed to beef up intelligence and take our networks surgically. As much as I can't stand this administration, hats off to them for taking out OBL the way they did in Pakistan.










    Apexx,I wouldn't give Obummer a standing ovation over OBL just yet. Remember, the operation that got him was formed under GW Bush, four years before it came down. It took a long time. Also, Robert Gates, the man that engineered the surge in Iraq and the man who helped engineer this operation to get OBL, was a Bush appointee. I WILL give Obummer this much, he did have the good sense, or advice from someone he trusted, to keep Gates on. I think that did more to insuring OBL's demise than anything else.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    Is it really? Only if we let it be. The only people that can threaten our way of living is ourselves and the governments we vote into office. No one can take away our freedom, we must give it away in exchange for vague promises of safety. The occasional successful attack is just part of the price we must be willing to pay in exchange for continuing our way of life, just like the occasional murder or school schooting is part of the price of defending the 2nd Amendment, and just like a few tens of thousands of deaths in automobile crashes are part of the cost of having the freedom of mobility. I don't know about you, but I'm willing to live with a little more risk to maintain a lot more freedom.

    I agree with you airdale that Muslim Extremism can be a threat to us, but for the reasons that Alph pointed out. Alph, where did this come from Bro! You're sounding like a Gun Rights Conservative with this. I love it!

    We can't let fear motivate us. Also, we need to take a stand when it's necessary too and not be pushed around. But when these radicals do something like this, we can't just throw up our hands and say Oh Sorry, we didn't mean to step on your toes! Anymore than we can throw away the Constitution everytime we have a sad event like Newtown Conn. Things will happen and we need to accept the bad with the good, because sometimes the bad isnt near as bad as it could be if we allow the things that make us what we are to be changed, such as the Constitution.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    Also, what Teach said about being the baddest dog in the pack and biting one of the others now and then is very good advice. Being the meanest S..B in the valley will keep the others at bay.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • ApexxApexx Member Posts: 111 Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    Apexx,I wouldn't give Obummer a standing ovation over OBL just yet. Remember, the operation that got him was formed under GW Bush, four years before it came down. It took a long time. Also, Robert Gates, the man that engineered the surge in Iraq and the man who helped engineer this operation to get OBL, was a Bush appointee. I WILL give Obummer this much, he did have the good sense, or advice from someone he trusted, to keep Gates on. I think that did more to insuring OBL's demise than anything else.

    I said administration not Obama. Gates is part of the administration no?
  • ApexxApexx Member Posts: 111 Member
    coolgunguy wrote: »
    This is true, but how many times in recent memory have we seen government entities willing and almost eager to ignore the rules because their actions were 'in the public interest'? Frankly, I'm not hopeful that this trend will subside. It is apparently much easier to apologize for doing 'X' (or blame 'X' on an over-eager worker bee) than it is to just make sure not to do 'X' in the first place.

    Agree. However, a drone strike wouldn't exactly be something that could be drown out with white noise. The government does things every day that we should be shocked and appalled by. They get away with it because the general public is asleep at the wheel. Take fast and furious for instance. It's to complicated and convoluted for Joe public to think about. It was not an event that resulted in immediate death of innocent like a bomb blast, campus shooting. For the most part the status quo was not disrupted therefor Joe Public doesn't care. On the other hand you unleash a hellfire rocket on someone on US soil that would seriously go against the status quo and Joe Sheeple Public won't stand for that. If politicians are good at anything it is understanding what they can and can't do and slide something by the general public.

    Sorry. No way a drone cuts rocket loose on a US citizen on US soil anytime soon. Simply to far outside the status quo for the sheeple to sleep through. 2nd amendment would be far easier to do in. All you would need is to have Democrat President and Congress.
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 6,244 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    The executive branch does not have the authority. LA County Sheriffs on the other hand...doesn't matter who orders it, does it?

    I've gotten to where I agree with a great deal that you post, but that? Pretty sure if the Executive branch of our government doesn't have the authority to order a drone strike, no way a sheriff's office could. You can't really think that could happen.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    I've gotten to where I agree with a great deal that you post, but that? Pretty sure if the Executive branch of our government doesn't have the authority to order a drone strike, no way a sheriff's office could. You can't really think that could happen.
    The executive branch doesn't have the authority to open fire on innocent civilians, but the LA County Sheriffs managed to do it anyway.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Kaniksu Nat'l Forest, IDPosts: 5,486 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    The executive branch doesn't have the authority to open fire on innocent civilians, but the LA County Sheriffs managed to do it anyway.

    ^This^

    Buffco, when (not if) the day comes where police have armed drones, they will use them. If the bad guy or group of bad guys is presented to the public as "evil enough", the public will accept it when it happens.

    I never thought that our government would use tanks and CS gas on a structure full of children, but they did. And Americans cheered.
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • AiredaleAiredale Banned Posts: 624 Senior Member
    Get real, Buff.
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 6,244 Senior Member
    Airedale wrote: »
    Get real, Buff.

    Well, you're awful vague. All you keep posting is "what do we do" "we should have helped the Russians".

    You've still not posted any information as to what YOU think we should do.
  • LMLarsenLMLarsen Senior Member VirginiaPosts: 8,337 Senior Member
    Face the facts guys, we won't EVER be able to wipe out or stop terrorists. Especially domestic. Look at how much chaos one single white male (Timothy McVeigh) caused. ANY person with half a brain is capable of it. All it takes is evil to top off the recipe.

    Been watching this thread and Jeff here posted the best thing that makes sense. There will always be evil in the world, regardless of where it comes from. The best we can do is fight it when and where we can; everything else is Monday-morning quarterbacking.
    “A gun is a tool, no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.”

    NRA Endowment Member
  • jigbonejigbone Member AppalachiaPosts: 182 Member
    Just my 2 cents - being policeman to the world hasn't gotten us anywhere. Trying to install our brand of republic in countries that aren't ready for it hasn't gotten us anywhere. Personally I believe we've got enough problems here at home, we should focus on those.

    Bring our troops home, close all those Cold War-era military bases around the world that are costing us millions every year, stop the nation-building, stop putting our noses in everyone else's business, stop giving millions of dollars to regimes that hate us anyway. If we'd been doing that all along I think we could have avoided a lot of the trouble that we're in. I'm sure there's a million shades of gray here, but for me it's as black and white as it can be.
    ATF should not be a government agency, it should be a discount store.
    :usa:
  • Microsoft1122Microsoft1122 New Member San AntonioPosts: 9 New Member
    What were taught about dealing with these fundamentalist muslims is that you cannot in any way defeat them totally or have any sort of success against them using conventional tactics. were not fighting an army with a uniform, were fighting a ideal, were essentially fighting peoples thoughts, their ideas that motivate them to commit acts of terror. We have seen this time and time again, every conventional army the US has fought we have wiped off the face of the earth, but every unconventional force we have gone toe to toe with the results have been less than stellar. And fighting a ideal is the apex of unconventional warfare, we are not fighting one group here, we re fighting hundreds if not thousands of small groups or cells that happen to share one name, they are disorganized and yet mutually supporting. We have seen it before, the north koreans and Chinese, the veit cong and NVA, the Somali's, and the Muslim extremists we fight now. We are not fighting normal armies any more. and because we are fighting a fluid enemy, one who when destroyed in one place pops up in another is damn near impossible to defeat.

    At least thats what our instructors tell us.

    Jigbone-"Just my 2 cents - being policeman to the world hasn't gotten us anywhere. Trying to install our brand of republic in countries that aren't ready for it hasn't gotten us anywhere. Personally I believe we've got enough problems here at home, we should focus on those.

    Bring our troops home, close all those Cold War-era military bases around the world that are costing us millions every year, stop the nation-building, stop putting our noses in everyone else's business, stop giving millions of dollars to regimes that hate us anyway. If we'd been doing that all along I think we could have avoided a lot of the trouble that we're in. I'm sure there's a million shades of gray here, but for me it's as black and white as it can be."

    I mostly agree with jigbone we simply cannot buy our way out of this problem, or rebuild enough crapholes for it to go away. The only way to stop this is to change the way people think, which is impossible, no matter what, some one, somewhere will always hold onto those ideals, and hey will act on them
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