Handling Terrorist.

Fat Billy

We have a new challenge for the Oblivit administration. How to handle the terrorist? The ACLU will want to give him protection and legal help. Some want to ship him to Guantanamo and water board him till he gives us info. We need to set a new process for handling terrorists. They are combatants of the United States. Watch the weak responce that's coming and how we tell the Muslims we're sorry. Terrorists have no rights! We need to set a new non PC way of dealing with terrorists. Try going to Israel and become a terrorist and see what rights you have. Once an enemy of the state you're TOAST. When terrorists are cornered keep the negotiators away, all they have a right to is a flash bang and assault from a commando team. Prisions in Israel are'nt full of terrorists but the grave yards are. Lets see the Oblivit responce. Not expecting much. :yesno: Later,

KSU Firefighter

Yep, that pretty much sums it up.

Teach

Pliers
Fingernails
1911

Nuff said!
Jerry

CaliFFL

TrueTone911 wrote: »

How do we process a domestic terrorist? Something that needs to be addressed. We don't have a vault full of examples to learn from but we do have some. And I would think domestic terrorist attacks will be more common as we move forward. These criminals should not be prosecuted using the same rules of engagement used against (random acts of violence) perpetrators of regular crimes. Look at the challenges created by the Fort Hood shooter.

It's one of those good thing, bad thing situations. Our right are protected (for the most part) in this country but we fail to recognize when someone should no longer have access to those rights. It's the missing (common sense) component regarding the interpretation and execution of our laws.

The common sense approach is always always always use "innocent until PROVEN guilty". You are talking about denying due process to Americans that are ACCUSED of crimes. Thousands of people have been falsely or erroneously accused of crimes they didn't commit. You can't pick and choose what parts of the constitution we think we should follow. Rights involve more than just the 2A.

Fat Billy

The fact that he is an American Citizen is a issue by itself. We are about to ease the restrictions on people becoming citizens. When a person decides to harm Americans via terrrorist action can the rights be suspended in an effort to protect other citizens? In this case there is no need for probable cause and they aren't innocent untill proven guilty because they were caught red handed. The next issue is the younger terrorist was FORCED to be guilty by the older brother. Let's cut the crap, they killed and maimed innocent people to follow a terrorist effort. Terrorists do not deserve the rights once they become COMBATANTS of our country. Throwing a pressure cooker bomb at police like the one used in the bombing ends their rights. I do not wish to be sent to a funeral home by being pollitically correct. :usa: Later,

shush

Handling Terrorist?

This.

shush

And this.

We have had to deal with this since the late ’60s and we killed them and won, at a cost.

They were called freedom fighters by some, freeing the down trodden Irish from the British yoke….. by killing Irish men, women, children and others.

Songs where sung, theme pubs collected for the fund, hands where clasped on the international stage and political asylum was given to convicted murderers.
We killed them.

Then things changed, they became evil terrorist and not very popular world wide.
We killed them.

Now they have seen the error of their ways, we were winning, and they stand and are elected in freedom and not by the gun.
One tried for the office of President of the Republic of Ireland quite recently but lost.
The Irish are not thick.

The answer?
Intelligence and strike first.

tennmike

The American judicial system hasn't yet come to grips with the problem of how to deal with terrorists on American soil. It's not like we haven't had time to deal with such acts. Give the filthy piece of excrement his day in court, and when convicted, either give him the needle, or put him in a cell in solitary confinement for the rest of his life with no visitor privileges. I kind of think he wouldn't last long in general prison population.

About the citizenship thing. The younger brother became a naturalized citizen on 9/11/2012. His older brother was a resident alien with a green card; he was denied citizenship because of his acts.

One thing I do know. If these acts become a regular thing here like they are overseas, the backlash could outstrip the ability of the authorities to protect the people who are of the same nationality/religion/ethnic group perpetrating the terrorist acts. "Fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate; hate leads to suffering", as Master Yoda put it. If these groups don't learn to weed their gardens themselves, they may find that their gardens are weeded for them, and them with it.

Bigslug

I think we've got some decent options, actually.

1. The guy is an American citizen. Give him a simple murder trial and leave his nationality and politics out of it. Deny those issues the world stage by trying and executing him as a common criminal - who just happened to be born a Chechen.

2. Proceed on the likelihood that his bid for American citizenship was under the false pretense of espionage and/terrorism, and yank that citizenship. Not a bad plea offering, actually - stay a citizen and get a lethal injection; or rescind your citizenship and sell out your buddies - in exchange for which, we can probably arrange to find a slightly less deep, slightly less dark hole to lock you in until the end of time. Heck, we can even add a cable channel for every one of your buddies we kill.

CaliFFL

Fat Billy wrote: »

The fact that he is an American Citizen is a issue by itself. We are about to ease the restrictions on people becoming citizens. When a person decides to harm Americans via terrrorist action can the rights be suspended in an effort to protect other citizens? In this case there is no need for probable cause and they aren't innocent untill proven guilty because they were caught red handed. The next issue is the younger terrorist was FORCED to be guilty by the older brother. Let's cut the crap, they killed and maimed innocent people to follow a terrorist effort. Terrorists do not deserve the rights once they become COMBATANTS of our country. Throwing a pressure cooker bomb at police like the one used in the bombing ends their rights. I do not wish to be sent to a funeral home by being pollitically correct. :usa: Later,

Geez, there is ALWAYS need for probable cause. Funny how quickly you discard the BOR while in an emotional state. Think Obama-Biden right after Sandy Hook.

They were not caught "red handed". They were shot in a battle with police and one was later captured. The terrorist act they are accused of was a week earlier. They were suspects because of photos putting them at the scene. Compelling evidence, but he is not guilty until he pleas or is convicted. At the moment he is arrested and charged.

This isn't PC crap. This is about the inalienable rights of US citizens, no matter what they are accused/convicted of. You let gov't decide that a loosely defined word like "terrorism" is exempt from due process and we will all suffer for it.

I'm NOT defending these monsters. I'm defending the system you are so eager to ignore.

I wish he HAD been killed by the cops. We wouldn't be having this discussion and we taxpayers wouldn't be getting a hospital/security/trial bill.

Fat Billy

I agree it would be simpler if he was killed by the Police, much simpler. They did throw a pressure cooker bomb at the police and it failed to work as designed. This type of crime is a bit different and should be treated a bit differently. I'm just pissed by what happened and want to make it harder to happen again. :mad: Later,

KSU Firefighter

Simpler if he had been killed by the police, but at what possible information lost? I'm not saying that he will be able to divulge anything, but, we need to try. As a citizen, he deserves to be Mirandized, and taken to trial. The list of lawyers drooling for the chance to represent him is probably long. I can agree to trying him as a murderer, and leaving politics on the sidelines. When his attorneys try to bring up any of his political leanings as justification for his actions, throw them out as irrelevant, they have nothing to do with the murder of three individuals and injuring of many more by use of an I.E.D. in Boston. Murder, go for the death penalty,(if possible), or throw him in a hole for rest of his miserable life, (if he is found guilty!)

Jim Tom

One thing to remember, the government doesn't grant us rights in the BOR, they recognize inalianable rights. It shouldn't really matter if he is a citizen or not, if we're really true to our BOR, they apply to all men (and women). If the government can take one right from anyone in the world, they can take all our rights from all of us.

Try him then hang him! Either there's plenty of evidence (After all, we've seen plenty.) or the tin foil hat people have been right all along.

Lynx0849

I agree that due process must be followed.
He is going to be charged with much but it is certain that it includes things like possession of an infernal device along with assault with one (the one thrown at police) along with plenty of observed counts of assault with a deadly weapon. Oh ya, the carjack and kidnapping and the pipe bombs found too. Certainly enough to hold him without bail for a while.

Heck, they can put him away for ever before even charging him with the bombings or the killing of the MIT officer.

I would like to see the sentencing be like the stupid shoe bomber. No press, no grandstand, just a sentence and a statement by the judge that he is just a dumb criminal. Good bye.


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shootbrownelk

Fat Billy wrote: »

The fact that he is an American Citizen is a issue by itself. We are about to ease the restrictions on people becoming citizens. When a person decides to harm Americans via terrrorist action can the rights be suspended in an effort to protect other citizens? In this case there is no need for probable cause and they aren't innocent untill proven guilty because they were caught red handed. The next issue is the younger terrorist was FORCED to be guilty by the older brother. Let's cut the crap, they killed and maimed innocent people to follow a terrorist effort. Terrorists do not deserve the rights once they become COMBATANTS of our country. Throwing a pressure cooker bomb at police like the one used in the bombing ends their rights. I do not wish to be sent to a funeral home by being pollitically correct. :usa: Later,

From what I've read, this Muslim terrorist has been a United States Citizen for what...7 or 8 months? Execute the SOB, who wants to feed & house that scum for the next 50+ years?

samzhere

alphasigmookie wrote: »

Be very very careful with this line of thinking. This kid WAS AN AMERICAN CITIZEN. Remember whatever they do to him they could eventually do to you.
etc etc

alpha, I agree. Gitmo and other stuff is really not legally an option, because regardless of what they've done, these guys (okay, the one remaining guy) are US citizens. Thugs or terrorists, yes, but citizens nevertheless, and we cannot usurp their constitutional rights to due process, much as our gut instincts tell us to send 'em to the hooded interrogators.

You also made some good points in your post, asking about gunpowder, annual "training camp" meets, and so on.

Buffco

I for one am GLAD we caught him alive, if only for the intelligence. We now know that they were pretty much just lone lunatics, but at the time we knew no such thing. He could've been part of a much larger cell, and I'd want to know that.

Now we can prosecute and charge him, like we would any other murderer.

jbp-ohio

alphasigmookie wrote: »

Be very very careful with this line of thinking. This kid WAS AN AMERICAN CITIZEN. Remember whatever they do to him they could eventually do to you.

Have you ever made negative comments about the president? Asserted that the 2a can or should be used as a last resort against a tyrannical government? Do you have an "arsenal" of guns and ammo in your home? Do you have any gunpowder (bomb components) in your home? God forbid you have any tannerite. Many of us have even gotten together at a "training camp" annually in rural TN!

Our token liberal is correct! Always OK when it happens to the 'other guy'. Then one day you turn around and the 'other guy' is you!

samzhere

Buffco wrote: »

I for one am GLAD we caught him alive, if only for the intelligence. We now know that they were pretty much just lone lunatics, but at the time we knew no such thing. He could've been part of a much larger cell, and I'd want to know that.

Now we can prosecute and charge him, like we would any other murderer.

Agreed. Influenced by the islamic jihad people, yes of course. But members of an actual larger terrorist cell? Likely not as of this posting. But if so, maybe 2-3 more idiots clamoring for death but not actually doing anything.

But you're correct. This thug can be tried openly as a murderer. And in fact, such treatment will actually defeat his "cause" because it reduces him to a common criminal level, not the "exalted" role of terrorist.

samzhere

jbp-ohio wrote: »

Our token liberal is correct! Always OK when it happens to the 'other guy'. Then one day you turn around and the 'other guy' is you!

True, true, jbp! Thing is, we've got to protect this thug's civil rights (much as our gut instincts tell us otherwise) because in the act of protecting his rights, we end up protecting our own.

Teach

Good point, Sam. Otherwise, we end up like the Castro regime shortly after their takeover of Cuba. I remember a quote from one of the big wheels of the "revolution"- - - - -"We have a fair court system- - - -first there is a trial, then an execution!"
Jerry

JamesAPrattIII

There should be more than enough evidence to convict him of murder in a regular court even in a state like mass.

sherwood

I have a rope and a tree. It's free!

tennmike

Wambli Ska wrote: »

I'm trying to remember which of my favorite Westerns this line is from but it was similar to yours...

"First we'll give you a proper trial, THEN we'll give you a proper hanging." For some reason I'm thinking it was John Cleese in Silverado...

The quote was from Silverado, but it was Cobb that said it. :tooth:
(From IMDB on movie Silverado quotes)
Cobb: "We're gonna give you a fair trial, followed by a first class hanging."

sakodude

Wambli Ska wrote: »

I'm trying to remember which of my favorite Westerns this line is from but it was similar to yours...

"First we'll give you a proper trial, THEN we'll give you a proper hanging." For some reason I'm thinking it was John Cleese in Silverado...

There was a similar line near the end of Quigley down under as well I believe.

Sako

ace7644

silverado was something like "Were gonna give you a fair trail, followed by a first class hanging"

damnthing

I've been reading along here in the forums for a long enough while to be able to discern one very salient point: The 2nd Amendment is an inalienable right and can NOT be taken away (well, at least not unless there is a constitutional amendment). And people in here are quite vocal about not losing the 2nd. or ANY rights. Yet...two pisant kids with grandiose ideas of 'going jihad' and setting off bombs, and the some of the same people here that are defiant in protecting their OWN constitutional rights are pretty damn quick about trying to squash suspect #2's constitutional rights.
He's an American citizen and therefore entitled to all the same rights as everyone of us, including a free defense lawyer and trial by jury. That must be the libtard in me leaking out. Some of your worse nightmares perhaps, a libtard with a gun ;-)
And it doesn't matter what Israel (or any other nation) does to terrorists, it's how we deal with them, under the law. As soon as you think it's okay to rescind someone's rights because you think it's okay, someone else is going to think it's okay to rescind YOUR rights (ya know, like gun ownership.) You stand up for the entire Constitution, it's not a cafeteria menu.