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Another Hog and another A-Max Performance Base

13

Replies

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 28,076 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    Yeah.. All that's left is the handle. He's not taking the bait.

    I can't get him to answer questions or acknowledge posts or PM's either. He continues to skirt the facts.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Eastern NebraskaPosts: 8,155 Senior Member
    I don't know if it was addressed elsewhere, but I wanted to bump this thread because of a specific quote I read in the May 2013 issue of American Hunter on a couple of issues we've discussed. In a sidebar of the "Spiral Horns and Curious Diversions" article by John Zent, it states that...
    "Most of know that super-accurate match bullets are inadequate for big game. Built on cores made from soft lead and clad only in thin gilding-metal jackets, such bullets flatten or disintergrate on impact, and thus fail to penetrate and cause the necessary trauma and tissue damage for an ethical kill.

    Obviously, that's contradictory to the evidence we've seen here in some capacity. The bullet does disintergrate, but it did not fail to penetrate.

    Regardless, the very same sidebar went on to answer a question we had about the A-Max vs. SST construction. The author states that the SST "is made with jackets produced by the same tooling and draw-type process as the company's A-Max match bullets." He also quoted Hornady's Dave Emary following proclamation about the very similar construction:
    SST jackets are considerably thicker and have a lot more taper. However, they do have superior concentricity and consistency. We are talking about jackets that deviate less than .0005 inches in wall concentricity."

    Sounds to me like our shared hypothesis that these bullets are very similar in construction is true.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 28,076 Senior Member
    He is entitled to his regurgitated opinion, but can piss up a rope in the process. I have yet to see an A-Max fail when used realistically against flesh.

    I will continue to go against the grain and use them for hunting within their capability. It bothers me not if none but me and mine use them successfully.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member WyomingPosts: 8,566 Senior Member
    I have seen the 168 A-Max penetrate and expand on more than one occasion and with different media/tissue-It works.
    Consistent performance is the truth teller here, not a gun scribe.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 28,076 Senior Member
    Consistent performance is the truth teller here, not a gun scribe.

    Bingo!

    I've personally seen the following A-Max bullets kill with utmost effeciency.

    .243 - 105gr
    6.5 - 140gr
    7mm - 162gr
    .308 - 155/168/178gr

    Those are just the ones I've seen with my own eyes or done with my own hands. I've heard and read of many others.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Eastern NebraskaPosts: 8,155 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    He is entitled to his regurgitated opinion, but can piss up a rope in the process. I have yet to see an A-Max fail when used realistically against flesh.

    I will continue to go against the grain and use them for hunting within their capability. It bothers me not if none but me and mine use them successfully.

    Trust me, I agree. I just thought the timing of his piece meshed perfectly with the topic. You aren't the first - and certainly won't be the last - guy who has successfully used the A-Max to take big game.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Podunk, Tx.Posts: 8,227 Senior Member
    The biggest thing I've got out of this thread is how to get Zee's goat. Kind of funny.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 28,076 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »
    The biggest thing I've got out of this thread is how to get Zee's goat. Kind of funny.


    How? Just act stupid?

    :jester:
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 28,076 Senior Member
    Six-Gun wrote: »
    Trust me, I agree. I just thought the timing of his piece meshed perfectly with the topic.

    Stupidity comes by many names. In this case......John Zent.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Podunk, Tx.Posts: 8,227 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    How? Just act stupid?

    :jester:

    That's not exactly what I had in mind, but still a pretty good comeback. Well played.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 28,076 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »
    That's not exactly what I had in mind, but still a pretty good comeback. Well played.

    Hey, you've been drilling some here lately. Keeping up with you has become a full time job.

    :wink:
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    The comments have to come from Snake. I don't get that magazine.

    Be it known that Zee and I have resolved this issue. I, in my infinite wisdom, have come to the conclusion that whether a bullet is called a target bullet, a varmint bullet, or an elephant bullet, if it will do the job, just shut up and let it happen. I think Zee and I both learned from our little exchange. I'm not privy to all he may have learned, but as for me, I've learned not to be so quick to doubt fellow knowledgeable forum members. Anyway, I may give the A-Max a whirl in the ol' 6.8x63 myself. :wink:
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member WyomingPosts: 8,566 Senior Member
    Good.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member WyomingPosts: 8,566 Senior Member
    :popcorn:
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 28,076 Senior Member
    Snake, you need to edit your last post.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • bklysenbklysen Member Posts: 521 Senior Member
    Uh-oh. You mean the Honeymoon is over?
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 28,076 Senior Member
    bklysen wrote: »
    Uh-oh. You mean the Honeymoon is over?

    No.

    In his last post, this statement is incorrect.

    "He found that his source was wrong about the A-Max jacket thickness. It is thicker."

    He accidentally misunderstood me. I never said that. The jacket IS thin. Regardless, he and I have come to an understanding. It's not his fault he was given misinformation by the Hornady Tech Rep. Snake was just the victim of an idiot. He just relayed what he was told. Which, was incorrect. Again, Snake is not at fault for that and we have cleared that up in IMs to each other.

    He IS, however, incorrect about the above statement in bold. Again, we've alreday discussed this error in IM and he should be along shortly to edit his last post. Hopefully.

    Either way, we've come to an understanding and kissed and made up. I even grabbed his butt in the process. He won't admit it publicly..........but I'm pretty sure he liked it.

    :jester:
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 6,244 Senior Member
    Snake is a good guy. I met him once. At the shoot.

    I'd hunt with him.

    But that Zee feller? I've heard.....things.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 28,076 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    Snake is a good guy. I met him once. At the shoot.

    I'd hunt with him.

    But that Zee feller? I've heard.....things.

    You're just all butt hurt (literally) about that one night at that place, when you had too much to drink.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Living in a van, down by the river.Posts: 14,038 Senior Member
    While Buffco may enjoy his farm animals, it seems he dislikes the donkey punch.
    I'm just here for snark.
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 6,244 Senior Member
    My hole is fresh as the driven snow, ne'er sullied by man nor beast.

    Ok, just man.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    Snake is a good guy. I met him once. At the shoot.

    I'd hunt with him.

    But that Zee feller? I've heard.....things.

    Buffy, you're an ocifer and a gentleman. Thank you. But I would hunt with that Zee feller just to spy on his techniques.

    BTW Zee, we made up ok! And I'm happy for that, but just for the record, WE DID NOT KISS!

    No need gettin' any rumors started like goes around about that cpj feller and Buffy. Sorry buffy!
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Podunk, Tx.Posts: 8,227 Senior Member
    Well, I'm glad we got that straight. There for a while, I wasn't sure if this was a case of the two of you (Zee and Snake) disagreeing to disagree, or disagreeing to agree. I think I just confused myself.

    But, I do have a question for Zee and Ernie and anyone else who has experience with the A-Max bullet as a hunting bullet. How is it on hide or pelt damage? The reason I ask is that I finally booked that once in a lifetime nauga hunt. I'm not exactly sure what one is, but the booking agent told me that the hides were in high demand on a commercial basis, and that if I managed to get a few and not do any significant damage to the hides, I should probably be able to sell them to people he knew for enough to cover the cost of the hunt.

    Needless to say I'm very excited about this, and want to make sure I have just the right bullet.

    Thanks in advance.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »
    Well, I'm glad we got that straight. There for a while, I wasn't sure if this was a case of the two of you (Zee and Snake) disagreeing to disagree, or disagreeing to agree. I think I just confused myself.

    But, I do have a question for Zee and Ernie and anyone else who has experience with the A-Max bullet as a hunting bullet. How is it on hide or pelt damage? The reason I ask is that I finally booked that once in a lifetime nauga hunt. I'm not exactly sure what one is, but the booking agent told me that the hides were in high demand on a commercial basis, and that if I managed to get a few and not do any significant damage to the hides, I should probably be able to sell them to people he knew for enough to cover the cost of the hunt.

    Needless to say I'm very excited about this, and want to make sure I have just the right bullet.

    Thanks in advance.

    I think it's better that you go hunt the illusive Velour. Nougat is kinda out of style nowadays and won't bring as high of price as Velour. Its the style nowadays. Nougat are like Menses nowadays. I always want to go hunt some so we can have Mence meat pie at Christmas.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 28,076 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »
    But, I do have a question for Zee and Ernie and anyone else who has experience with the A-Max bullet as a hunting bullet. How is it on hide or pelt damage? The reason I ask is that I finally booked that once in a lifetime nauga hunt.

    No, I would NOT recommend the A-Max for such use. That bullet, in any caliber, would be way too destructive.

    I would recommend using the .270 Winchester and ANY bullet in that caliber or chambering will be much less destructive. To the point that penetration of the on side hide may not even occure. Laughter, on the part of the intended target, will be excessive and possibly to the point of causing death. Therefore, rendering your hide unscathed.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Podunk, Tx.Posts: 8,227 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    Laughter, on the part of the intended target, will be excessive and possibly to the point of causing death. Therefore, rendering your hide unscathed.

    Whose death, and whose hide? Can you elaborate, please?

    And if I use a .270, will ricochet be a problem?
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 28,076 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »
    Whose death, and whose hide? Can you elaborate, please?

    And if I use a .270, will ricochet be a problem?

    I feel I was rather explanatory.

    To your second question........the answer is no.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Eastern NebraskaPosts: 8,155 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »
    But, I do have a question for Zee and Ernie and anyone else who has experience with the A-Max bullet as a hunting bullet. How is it on hide or pelt damage? The reason I ask is that I finally booked that once in a lifetime nauga hunt. I'm not exactly sure what one is, but the booking agent told me that the hides were in high demand on a commercial basis, and that if I managed to get a few and not do any significant damage to the hides, I should probably be able to sell them to people he knew for enough to cover the cost of the hunt.

    Needless to say I'm very excited about this, and want to make sure I have just the right bullet.

    Thanks in advance.
    Since Zee shot down the A-Max for that job, let me sidetrack for a moment and offer a perfect big game bullet for that job: Sierra ProHunter.

    I used one in .243 on my mule deer and the result entry hole was the diameter of the bullet and the exit hole was not even the size of a dime. My tanned backskin came out in tip top shape from the tannery using that bullet.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 28,076 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    Anyway, I may give the A-Max a whirl in the ol' 6.8x63 myself. :wink:

    You gonna have a hard time finding an A-Max in 6.8 anywhere in stock.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Podunk, Tx.Posts: 8,227 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    I feel I was rather explanatory.

    To your second question........the answer is no.

    Darn. Upon further reflection, I found your response somewhat disheartening. I decided to get a second opinion, so I called down to the local bowling alley and asked to speak to Hector. He's the booking agent I mentioned earlier. I asked him about using a .270 for naugas, fully expecting him to burst into a round of derisive laughter for asking such a silly question. Instead, he assured me that the .270 was perfect for anything on his remote unicorn ranch (I don't think he meant to let that slip), and that some of his past clients had taken trophy naugas with the .270. I pressed him further, asking about using the AMAX bullet, and he didn't offer an opinion. No doubt he's not aware of its great potential as a hunting bullet.

    So, all of this gave me an idea, Zee. Perhaps you can find some .270 AMAX bullets and work up a .270 load with them. Once you find a load that will make a hole in paper at a suitable distance, and give you the accuracy you want (or at least suitable accuracy for the task at hand), take it hunting. If you don't have a .270, perhaps you can borrow one for this experiment. Whatever you do, be sure you bring someone along as a backup, carrying a rifle chambered in something more suitable.

    If you can demonstrate that the AMAX bullet will do well even when fired from a .270, I think you will convince a lot of people that it is a very viable option. Otherwise, those of us who have successfully used the .270 to take game using a 'lesser' bullet can only conclude that the might AMAX is just not the bullet we need.

    I hope you take this suggestion in the spirit it was offered.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
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