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Confession

Dr. dbDr. db Senior MemberPosts: 1,541 Senior Member
I've been unfaithful. I have been reading....gasp....another forum. In that place there is a great deal of concern about "printing". I originally thought that printing was only a concern because one wouldn't want a bad guy to know who the armed people are. Now I have begun to wonder that, perhaps in some states, printing violates laws with regard to concealed carry. Is this true?

Replies

  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,692 Senior Member
    In some states, it can. It's kinda subjective.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • JLDickmonJLDickmon Senior Member Posts: 1,726 Senior Member
    I must confess as well...

    My name is John, and I read forums about Powerstroke pickups..
    Never laugh at your wife's choices.
    You are one of them.
  • Dr. dbDr. db Senior Member Posts: 1,541 Senior Member
    Is the purported reason that John Q. Public will be panicked if a gun is visible? Has hoplophobia gone that far?
  • LMLarsenLMLarsen Senior Member Posts: 8,337 Senior Member
    I don't know conclusively, but years ago I had a conversation about that with an LEO neighbor. He said that since Virginia allows open carry as well as concealed carry with a permit, if my cover garment blows open and reveals my sidearm, it's in the open and no worries.

    Don't quote me on this.
    “A gun is a tool, no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.”

    NRA Endowment Member
  • LMLarsenLMLarsen Senior Member Posts: 8,337 Senior Member
    Dr. db wrote: »
    Is the purported reason that John Q. Public will be panicked if a gun is visible? Has hoplophobia gone that far?

    It has. You saw the recent story about the veteran in Texas who got rousted because he was hiking with his son carrying an AR, and someone freaked and called the cops. Granted, he should have handled it better, but still...
    “A gun is a tool, no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.”

    NRA Endowment Member
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,188 Senior Member
    LMLarsen wrote: »
    I don't know conclusively, but years ago I had a conversation about that with an LEO neighbor. He said that since Virginia allows open carry as well as concealed carry with a permit, if my cover garment blows open and reveals my sidearm, it's in the open and no worries.

    Don't quote me on this.
    Sorry. I had to quote you.

    Basically, it is the same deal in Michigan. Obviously, the point of having it conceiled is to conceal it, but if it happens to be seen, it is not the end of the world because open carry is legal.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 11,624 Senior Member
    In some states, it can. It's kinda subjective.

    It is in TX. I think the wording is it must be hidden in a way that a normal person can't tell it's a gun.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • mythaeusmythaeus Senior Member Posts: 831 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    It is in TX. I think the wording is it must be hidden in a way that a normal person can't tell it's a gun.

    There are several states where open carry is prohibited, including TX. Firearms therefore MUST be concealed and there are specific wordings in the law as to what is "concealed". You must check your state laws.

    TX example:
    SUBCHAPTER H. LICENSE TO CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN
    Sec.411.171.DEFINITIONS.
    (3)"Concealed handgun" means a handgun, the presence of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person.

    It's pretty broad still if you asked me and a lot of it would be up to how hard the cop will be, then up to the judge. This demonstrates the importance of having the right to open carry not being infringed. That's the only way to ensure 100% that if you accidentally exposed your CCW that you don't get some overzealous LE then DA jumping on you by leaving it to the discretion of the government.

    Al
    "In a controversy, the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth and have begun striving for ourselves." - Siddhartha Gautama
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    As was said above, yes, in Texas (no open carry allowed), "printing" breaks the CHL law, techically. But yes, it's also subjective. An LEO might spot the weapon bulge where the normal person might not.

    From what I've been told by LEO friends, as long as the printing isn't blatant, it's okay. Nevertheless it makes good sense to avoid letting others know that you're carrying.
  • KENFU1911KENFU1911 Senior Member Posts: 1,052 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Sorry. I had to quote you.

    Basically, it is the same deal in Michigan. Obviously, the point of having it concealed is to conceal it, but if it happens to be seen, it is not the end of the world because open carry is legal.

    Same here...open...concealed...no matter...mine is concealed while it's cool out...when it warms up....."why yes I know the hammer is cocked on that gun....that's how JMB wanted it....thanks for pointing it out".......idjits.......
    My idea of a warning shot is when the 2nd bad guy watches his 1st buddy go down....
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,721 Senior Member
    Dr. db wrote: »
    Is the purported reason that John Q. Public will be panicked if a gun is visible? Has hoplophobia gone that far?

    That would be my guess.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,463 Senior Member
    As long as the print doesn't scream "hey look, I'm unmistakably a gun" you should be fine. Lots of things can be carried on the waist line, phones, leathermans, ect...
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    When the Tennessee legislature passed their CCW law, open carry was permitted for that very reason- - - -in case of a wardrobe malfunction, legally-armed citizens couldn't be hassled by a JBT cop for accidentally exposing their weapon. I've seen a few people out in public with a totally unconcealed firearm, obviously non-LEO's, but I think it's not a very good idea. At least a token attempt at concealment will reduce the amount of unwelcome attention a person gets.
    Jerry
  • EliEli Senior Member Posts: 3,074 Senior Member
    THIS is the level of awareness put forth by the average person.......seriously........printing isn't that big a deal.



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqQ8Y9Sjp7o
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,721 Senior Member
    I have harped about this to my family since day one.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • 41magnut41magnut Senior Member Posts: 1,225 Senior Member
    Majority of "reasonable" persons wouldn't have clue what they saw if they noticed a printed f/a. And those that did, more than likely wouldn't care.

    Except for jurisdictions that are anti gun, under all circumstances 24/7, (we all probably know where these are located) I have come to believe that if a person makes an honest effort to be discreet then carry on.
    "The .30-06 is never a mistake." Townsend Whelen :iwo:
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    mythaeus wrote: »
    There are several states where open carry is prohibited, including TX. Firearms therefore MUST be concealed and there are specific wordings in the law as to what is "concealed". You must check your state laws.

    TX example:
    SUBCHAPTER H. LICENSE TO CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN
    Sec.411.171.DEFINITIONS.
    (3)"Concealed handgun" means a handgun, the presence of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person.

    It's pretty broad still if you asked me and a lot of it would be up to how hard the cop will be, then up to the judge. This demonstrates the importance of having the right to open carry not being infringed. That's the only way to ensure 100% that if you accidentally exposed your CCW that you don't get some overzealous LE then DA jumping on you by leaving it to the discretion of the government.

    Al

    In Texas it would boil down to the judge. Most Texas Judges are cool people, that I've seen anyway, but there are in every state some libtard ones that will bust you just because they can. Then it would depend on if you had the time, money, and energy to try to appeal it to a higher court.
    Usually, a higher court will be advantageous to your appeal because they look more at the law and precedence than agenda, but not always.

    Also, the Texas legislature is bringing up a change to the law that if you accidently flash your concealed handgun it's not a violation, unless you would intentially brandish it to show you have it.

    And one more thing, I confess too that I do on occasion visit other gun sites. I find it interesting and it's always funny when you run into some of the peeps here. It's like Fancy meetin you and a place like this! :jester:
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Dr. db wrote: »
    I've been unfaithful. I have been reading....gasp....another forum. In that place there is a great deal of concern about "printing". I originally thought that printing was only a concern because one wouldn't want a bad guy to know who the armed people are. Now I have begun to wonder that, perhaps in some states, printing violates laws with regard to concealed carry. Is this true?

    "Printing" is subjective according to most CHL laws. The first "true" CCW law was from Florida and that model has been used for most other CCW legislation in other states, incl Texas where I live.

    The law says that you must keep the weapon concealed so that it's not visible by 'the average citizen' and so on (I could get the actual wording but it's pretty clear). An LEO may be able to spot you carrying but you're okay if the weapon is concealed such that the "average" non-LEO citizen can't see it. And obviously, if the weapon is visible ("printing") then by definition, it's not concealed.

    That's technically an offense in Texas but a new addendum to the CHL law was just signed by the governor here, stating that "accidental" display of a firearm that's otherwise properly concealed is not an offense and cannot result in any legal charges to the carry person.

    Hope this answers your question, but realize that each state's specific concealed carry laws may vary, and also it's partially a situation based on the pro- or anti- firearms slant of local authorities, regardless of the letter of the law. Texas jurisdictions are pretty lenient regarding concealed carry "small glitches" whereas a more liberal-slant state might be less forgiving.

    And yeah, snake said it exactly right, too.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,812 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    That's technically an offense in Texas but a new addendum to the CHL law was just signed by the governor here, stating that "accidental" display of a firearm that's otherwise properly concealed is not an offense and cannot result in any legal charges to the carry person.

    Yup, passed by the house, signed by the governor, and waiting on the Senate companion bill to pass. The Democrats have one more shot at it, but it will likely be law, soon.

    https://www.texasfirearmscoalition.com/index.php/bill-status-report

    "HB 1304 (Sheets, R): Relating to the intentional display of a handgun.
    Impact: Amends Tex. Penal Code §46.035(a) such that a person must intentionally "display" (rather than "fail to conceal") a handgun in order to violate that Code provision. It also amends the defense to "intentional display" set out in Tex. Penal Code §46.035(h) by deleting the word "deadly" bringing it in line with other defenses in Tex. Penal Code Chapter 9, including §9.04.
    Status: Laid on table for companion SB299 that passed and was signed by Governor Perry."
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