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California pit bull owner charged with murder in fatal mauling
Pit Bulls are about as much a gentle breed as is Islam is a religion of peace! Maybe not the best analogy, but the owners should be held accountable fer their mutts!
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/05/31/california-pit-bull-owner-charged-with-murder-in-fatal-mauling/
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/05/31/california-pit-bull-owner-charged-with-murder-in-fatal-mauling/
It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
Replies
DPRMD
Laws vary from state to state, but when I raised cattle, if one had gotten out in the road and a car hit it, I was liable for both property damage and personal injury. Holding dog owners to the same standard makes sense to me.
― Douglas Adams
There's a big difference between financial liability and criminal charges. I was in a car that hit a cow. The farmer had to pay for the car and the EMT exam at the scene. He wasn't charged with attempted murder.
Adam J. McCleod
As a side note, if an unleashed pit bull comes my way, I'm going to shoot it before it gets close enough to use those jaws.
"Slow is smooth, smooth is fast, and speed is the economy of motion" - Scott Jedlinski
Paul
I agree absolutely.
Ages ago, in the pre-pitbull era, my Dad shot and killed a huge doberman that was leaping to attack his little grandson, my nephew. My sister was there, saw it "go down" -- the dog was from next door where the idiot drunk neighbor had kept 2 dobes in a cheap pen and never gave them attention, so naturally the dogs were essentially feral.
The dog had chewed its way out of its pen and was roaming the neighbor's back yard. Dad had already phoned the cops but then my sis drives up, her toddler boy gets out of the car (up the driveway in my folks' back yard area) and the dog growls and runs toward the 5-ft slat fence separating the yards. Dad had come out to warn her to get inside asap but it happened before they could get inside, the dog growled and leaped to clear the fence.
My sis said she'd never seen anything faster. Dad pulled his 1911 and fired in one motion, drilled the dog straight through midair. Challenging my Dad when he had his 1911 was never a smart thing anyway, as people back in Kentucky where as a young guy, he was a, mmm, "special deputy" would agree.
Neighbor, a "prominent attorney" blustered about animal cruelty but Dad essentially told him to "do something" to a rope. Cops had already several calls about the dog but the complaints had been quashed by the lawyer. They thanked Dad and laughed, compared gun stories, then drove away.
So yeah.
The stupid bovine didn't attack you; it was just standing in the way; probably at night. :tooth: <(Superfluous and totally unnecessary emoticon)
Point is, if you own any animal that is not under your direct control, and especially one known to cause great injury or death for no reason whatsoever, you should be held liable for said actions of said animal. I look it as that personal responsibility thing. The animal didn't know any better, but the owner sure did.
― Douglas Adams
Would you expect a murder charge if your bull broke down a fence and gored some jogger?
My point was that animals escape from their owners. Charging the owner with murder is ****. If the owner left a gate open maybe there is room for a negligent homicide charge. A fitting result would be financial ruin through wrongful death lawsuits.
This reminds me...I need to remove the collars from my pack of Staffordshire bull terriers.
Adam J. McCleod
Only had one bull that 'went ballistic' and he was provoked. Some young men who should have known better were throwing rocks at his "junk", connected one time too many, and he went through the fence after them. They got into their car just before he arrived. He pushed their car into the ditch and then proceeded on some serious body work on the car's passenger side panels. It was epic. I got him to quit by offering him a bucket of sweet horse feed. He accepted the peace offering, and then went to check on his ladies. He never showed any aggressive behavior after that. I never tolerated a 'mean' bull in the pasture, EVER. They went to the sale barn if they showed any signs of being aggressive.
It should be the same with aggressive dogs. Either keep them behind a substantial and escape proof fence, or put them down. Letting them roam freely is a disaster waiting to happen. I have killed dogs that have come into my yard with teeth bared, hackles raised, growling and advancing towards me. I am NOT a chew toy, and the dogs made a fatal error in victim selection. I don't care what pedigree they have, if any, nor do I care who the owner might be. And FWIW, dogs chasing the cattle were reactive targets of opportunity. And another FWIW, I didn't hold it against the dogs for being delinquent; but I had choice words for whoever their owners happened to be, whoever they were. Only a few had collars on, and no names on the collars.
The dogs attacked a jogger having a right to be where she was at the time. The owner of the dogs should be charged with negligent homicide for allowing them to either get out of their fenced area, or to run loose. If someone has a dog or dogs that have shown aggression to strangers, it is their responsibility to contain them or deal with them in whatever manner is necessary to keep them from escaping and running free. I agree that a murder charge is a stretch, and unwarranted.
― Douglas Adams
I think that case in CA was 2nd degree wasn't it?
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
Anybody who has ever had anything to do with an animal shelter knows that every dog they take in is subjected to an evaluation to determine its suitability as a pet. Is it aggressive? Can you safely touch and hold it anywhere? If it passes, it goes up for adoption, if not, it is euthanized. The owner of an aggressive dog has an obligation to secure it. No ifs ands or buts, 100% of the time, no mistakes, no "oops, my dog got out." The culpability of the owner cannot be overemphasized.
If only as a warning to all other owners of aggressive animals, throw the book at him.
I'll bet a dog hanging would stir up more emotions/protest than a human hanging:yikes:
The woman was bitten 150-200 times by the dogs. A horrible way to go fer sure.
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
I sympathize with the victim, but this happens millions of times a day all over the world to other species. We tend to forget that we are nothing more than intelligent animals. Humans fall victim to predators quite often. If this was a pack of introduced wolves, most wouldn't be calling for charges against USF&G, even though the agency is wholly responsible for releasing apex predators into areas inhabited by people.
If blame is to be laid on someone, it should be against government. The victim was forbidden to defend herself by the state, and prohibition causes the accused to employ attack dogs to protect his business.
Adam J. McCleod
Hell, I love dogs myself but regard them as generally sentient animals with feelings of their own. There's no way I could keep a bigger dog where I live, and since I don't care much for teeny dogs, having a cat is the best solution for pet ownership.
On a larger scale, there are some dog owners who unfortunately regard it as their God-given "right" to keep big dogs despite their inability to provide the necessary loving care that any higher-level animal needs. These pets aren't mere possessions like a big flatscreen TV or a new car -- they have feelings all to themselves, and if not given responsible care, can turn into hazards. It's not the dog's fault. It's the idiotic owner.
It's also possible that this particular guy actually trained his dogs to be "angry participants" in his drug activities by being ill-trained guard dogs. If so, the guy needs to be sent away for life.
That's a piss poor argument if I've ever heard one. It's the governments fault.......really? Have you been puffing this guys product? To say that releasing wolves, which by the way, were here before we were, is equal to a bunch of attack dog is ludicrous.
Sorry buster, but wolves were NOT in the lower 48 for over a century. The bunny huggers wanted to put wolves back into the ecosystem, with no concern for the ruralites that would have to deal with them killing people, pets, and livestock. The USF&G dropped in a larger species that was not previously indigenous. Sounds a lot like a wild/feral pitbull to me.
According to recent news reports, there are packs of "wolves" in the urban areas killing people and pets. You want to know the dufference? I can shoot any canine on sight without the threat of punishment. Urbanites risk jail and fines for shooting canines while saving themselves or even neighborhood children.
That is the gift of government that keeps on giving.
Adam J. McCleod
If you sympathize with the victim, then, ****, sympathize! Your argument is apples and oranges - comparing the risks and dangers we face from WILD, feral predators to the risks and dangers we should never face from DOMESTICATED animals is bogus. Even if this poor lady had been armed, the chances of stopping an attack from multiple very fast moving, relatively small targets are slim.
I'm a ruralite and know how to operate a manual backhoe (shovel). No problemo getting rid of the carcass.
Since urbanites in some areas can't shoot the canines with a firearm, there are alternatives. A good straight grain hickory shovel handle makes a dandy walking stick that can be carried when walking or jogging. It weighs very little, and when applied at high velocity to the top of the head of an aggressive dog will make them go to sleep permanently. Firearms aren't the only answer to a dog attack. A mattock or ax handle kept handy in the garage is also strong medicine for dogs exhibiting antisocial behavior. It ain't rocket science. And like The Preacher in the movie "Pale Rider" said, "Nothing like a good piece of hickory".
― Douglas Adams
http://bubbastik.com/
Nothing like a brass horse collar hame to increase the effectiveness of the stick!
Jerry
If you're hard pressed for cash, a piece of Schedule 40 PVC pipe about 6 feet long is a good dog deterrent, too. Not that I'd know about such things. :roll:
― Douglas Adams
Jerry
Did the other dogs ever learn to get along with the JR?
Have to laugh, next door neighbor has 2 midsize "Heinz" dogs, terrier mixed breed, nice dogs really, but both of them are scared, er, poopless by my big orange cat. If my girlfriend or I are "walking" the cat outside on his leash and the dogs come out, they run and hide from my cat. Funny to watch because other than being large (16 lbs and fuzzy) he's a totally laid back dude and very easygoing. Maybe he gave them the evil eye? ha ha
What a crock... You think you should have some guarentee that you will never be attacked by a domesticated animal? Next you will claim that you should never face the dangers of being attacked by another human.
Her odds may have been slim, but slim odds are better than mauled to death.
Always go armed and we will talk about dead dogs, not dead people.
Adam J. McCleod
I agree with you, Cali, although perhaps not so vociferously. Armed or not, domestic animals can be dangerous. And due to the proximity, lots more people are harmed or killed by "tame" domestic animals that wild feral ones.
After all, many feral animals are very cautious of humans, while domestic animals have lost their fear of people.
Regarding being armed, having several dogs attack at the same time would be terrible but I'm just guessing that if one of the dogs were blown to kingdom come with a nice firearm (even if not a large caliber), the other dogs of the pack might break off the attack when their alpha leader was dead or badly wounded. They might even turn on their colleague.
Regardless, it's better to be armed than not. At least you can do something.
You've got to be kidding me! How much is your life worth?
You talk like a liberal lawyer who's looking for a third of the setelment!
This is a a fool with six breading pits and two mutts to guard his dope in a house he probably doesn't own and if he does I'd be willing to bet on the condition and value. NO! This fool should have the soft book of Kaliforniastan law thrown at him. I won't get started on our criminal injustice system, it does nothing for the victum.
The unfortunate part of this story is you get very few details. This is not the guy you want as a neighbor.
The first case they sited hapened not to far from me. The two hudge dogs were kept in a very small apartment and the neighbors were very afraid of them. Many complaints had been made and nothing was done prior to the attack. Maybe animal control should be held liable too.
Look at the short story again. Shortly after the attack they went to his house with a warrant. Can you say paper work and judge? How did they know where to go? They let him out of jail while they waited for DNA testing. Really! Four blood soaked dogs and a simple blood typing isn't enough? Do you think he washed the dogs when they came home bloody? Do you think he called the police to say "Hey my dogs did something bad" or do you think he tried to cover it up? I'd hang him. He is the king of that castle ond or captian of his ship. They are his dogs and he is responcible for their actions. 25 to life with no reduction and all his worldly belongings and holding should go to the victum.
Forget about shooting the dog outside you own yard. There are too few hard to get CCWs in this state. Carry a hickory stick when you jog? Get up off the cough get an ax handle and run with it, then tell me how far you make it before it went into a recycling bin. Beside animals have more rights than me. For example in the Bay Area you don't own a dog, you are it's "guardian".
If a man's dogs killed my wife he'd have to grow and wings and fly!
Jerry
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!