Hypothetical quesiton: .260 Remington/6.5 Creedmoor for elk?

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Replies

  • rapier5316rapier5316 Member Posts: 312 Member
    Per the Berger Bullets Reloading Manual 1st Edition. 140 grain VLD match grade hunting bullets took a nice 5X5 from 1102 yards. .264 Win Mag.
    "The power of the United States has peaked, oppression follows." Robert Prector, Socionomics.net
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,802 Senior Member
    I don't think you can fairly compare a .260 Remington or the 6.5 Creedmore with a .264 Win. Mag. There's probably at least 400 FPS difference there, enough to make a decided difference. Not bad mouthing the .260 or the Creedmore here. It's just they are what they are. I'm just pointing out that they're not quite in the same class as a magnum round, I don't care what kind of BC they have. They all have the same BC with comparative bullets, so it boils down to speed and the .264 has it all over the .260 AND/OR Creedmore in that department. For long distance I don't believe that you can't beat a .264 Win. Mag. I never wanted one because I fell victim early to the scare stories of barrel throat erosion, but now I realize it's probably no worse than many other magnums. Look at the .257 Weatherby. That should be a barrel fryer from hell. But yet it has a fairly strong following. What I really believe is that the metallurgy in those first .264 barrels just wasn't up to the task. In my limited opinion, the .264 is one of the better magnums for game up to and including elk at longer ranges. But then I'm not an elk expert for sure.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • rapier5316rapier5316 Member Posts: 312 Member
    True, hopefully he won't be reaching past a thousand yards with it either.

    I bought an old Finn Bear in .264. I think that many a "shot out" 264 barrel will do very well with a modern copper fouling cleaning.
    "The power of the United States has peaked, oppression follows." Robert Prector, Socionomics.net
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,802 Senior Member
    rapier5316 wrote: »
    True, hopefully he won't be reaching past a thousand yards with it either.

    I bought an old Finn Bear in .264. I think that many a "shot out" 264 barrel will do very well with a modern copper fouling cleaning.

    rapier, you I believe are right on here. I do believe a .264 in an older chrome moly barrel will probably shoot out in a couple thousand rounds, but that's not really too bad. A magnum rifle isn't something most of us bench shoot 50 rounds through every time we take it to the range and it will probably take 30+ years or more for most of us to shoot one out. Many were probably pronounced dead back in the day, when a good copper cleaning every 100 rounds or so could have given them another 500-1000 rounds before they were legitimately shot out. I just cleaned a couple of my older barrels with DDC on Friday and when I soaked the bore with it and let it sit for 3-5 minutes then ran a clean white patch down it, the patches came out Cobalt Blue, indicating lots of copper. One of these is my 22-250. I knew it wasn't shot out, but the last time I had it at the range its groups with 52 grain Speer HPs were opening up a bit. It has the older Remington twist of 1-14 and the best shooting bullet in it is the Speer 52 grain HP at 3700FPS. It's smoking coming out that barrel, but it's accurate to <1/2 MOA if I do my part. The last couple times I had it out at the range it wouldn't shoot under an inch at 100 yards and I was thinking it was me. So I got out the cleaning stuff and gave it a good scrubbing with DDC. I haven't shot it yet, but I figure it will probably tighten up quite a bit since I cleaned the copper out. I had been concentrating my cleaning duties on my newer rifles, a couple of recent builds and my 7 Rem. Mag and my 300 Wby., and had been neglecting my 22-250. But I was still shooting it quite a bit. Since I broke my good 22 cal. cleaning rod, AND I refused to run the one Jointed rod in its bore, I figured not cleaning was better than taking a chance on damaging my bore with a jointed rod. I have probably fired 30-40 rounds through it without cleaning and with an overbore cartridge like a 22-250, you probably deposit a good bit of copper in a bore in 30+rounds. It didn't completely destroy its accuracy, but it did open it up enough to get me concerned. So I figure knowing this, what you said about the .264 makes plenty of sense.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • rapier5316rapier5316 Member Posts: 312 Member
    Yep, KG-12 and Wipe-out are your friends
    "The power of the United States has peaked, oppression follows." Robert Prector, Socionomics.net
  • stepmacstepmac Member Posts: 172 Member
    You want to use a long controlled expansion bullet that will go deep. Caliber is not so important as is bullet construction and where you aim the thing. During the early 20th Century surplus Krags were considered primo for elk. The long, round nose, hard 220 surplus round penetrated deep, while the high velocity 30-06 or 300 H&H blew up just under the hide. In those long by-gone days you could buy a like new surplus Krag rifle or carbine for $5 and ammo was close to free. It was also corrosive and devoured bores, which is why you encounter so many shot out Krag bores.

    Elmer Keith wrote that the 45/70 was a better hunting round that the 300 magnum and Elmer was pretty good. So grab your Shiloh Sharps and go to town....or the elk woods, rather.
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,768 Senior Member
    A 30 krag claimed the life of an elk that was for many decades, the biggest in the world. It'll do. The problem with hunting in Colorado anymore (and wyoming is not far behind with the massive decline in population and montana raising non res costs significantly pushing hunters out) is not that elk are built stronger, its pressure from basically being a gold rush of tags and the sheer number of hunters. That is primarily why we saw elk twice in 9 days in some of the best elk country in the world, and they were fleeting glimpses in both cases. In a low pressure, high density area, i would not think twice about grabbing a 6.5 and picking a good shot. It will make piles of meat. Maybe i will find a new spot omeday, for now i will stick to horsepower as insurance. YMMV
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • jbohiojbohio Senior Member Posts: 5,499 Senior Member
    A 30 krag claimed the life of an elk that was for many decades, the biggest in the world. It'll do. The problem with hunting in Colorado anymore (and wyoming is not far behind with the massive decline in population and montana raising non res costs significantly pushing hunters out) is not that elk are built stronger, its pressure from basically being a gold rush of tags and the sheer number of hunters. That is primarily why we saw elk twice in 9 days in some of the best elk country in the world, and they were fleeting glimpses in both cases. In a low pressure, high density area, i would not think twice about grabbing a 6.5 and picking a good shot. It will make piles of meat. Maybe i will find a new spot omeday, for now i will stick to horsepower as insurance. YMMV
    Well said. :beer:
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,046 Senior Member
    A 30 krag claimed the life of an elk that was for many decades, the biggest in the world. It'll do. The problem with hunting in Colorado anymore (and wyoming is not far behind with the massive decline in population and montana raising non res costs significantly pushing hunters out) is not that elk are built stronger, its pressure from basically being a gold rush of tags and the sheer number of hunters. That is primarily why we saw elk twice in 9 days in some of the best elk country in the world, and they were fleeting glimpses in both cases. In a low pressure, high density area, i would not think twice about grabbing a 6.5 and picking a good shot. It will make piles of meat. Maybe i will find a new spot omeday, for now i will stick to horsepower as insurance. YMMV
    I can't say I disagree with a word of what you said. My question for asking was because:
    1. I've never shot an elk.
    2. I wondered if under the right conditions a short-action 6.5 would work.

    If I were to go on an elk hunt, I'd probably use something like a .300 Win. Mag. at the minimum. Why? Because I'm not going to be going elk hunting all that often, and I'd like to have more options.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • wildgenewildgene Senior Member Posts: 1,036 Senior Member
    ...well, theoretically speaking, a .264 WM runs about 300fps faster than a 6.5 Creedmoor w/ the same 140gr. bullet, which using the mystical 1500ft.lbs. of energy gives it 150yds. more range (450 vs. 300, bye the way the 130gr. .270 is right about 400, 140gr. 7-08 about 350). I've shot one or two elk almost every year since I was 14, & I'd spend a lot more time selecting a good bullet, building a good load, making sure I had a cold bore "Zero", & practicing a lot than obsessing over my "cartridge size"...

  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 6,978 Senior Member
    Shot placement and a bullet designed to work in your velocity spread=filled tag
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,768 Senior Member
    Shot placement and a bullet designed to work in your velocity spread=filled tag


    Ernie, please refer to my sig line :wink:
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 6,978 Senior Member
    :jester::rotflmao:
    Ernie, please refer to my sig line :wink:
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
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