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Zimmerman trial begins w. critical defendant quote, a warning if you're ever involved

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  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    The "girl friend" is making the case for the defense pretty well- - - - -she's a lying weasel with an attitude. Getting hostile with the defense during cross-examination is bad enough, but doing it while they're pointing out that she's a serial liar is priceless! Maybe she should run for congress!
    Jerry
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,713 Senior Member
    I've had the trial on for a short time today and I noticed double negatives
    being used in the exchange between the defense atty and the witness.

    I expect the jury being all women, it won't be noticed until and if this trial
    goes to appeal down the road.
    Shut up-----KAREN; OK Cynthia
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    That is the prosecution's star witness? This should have never have went to trial.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    Yes sir.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    I partially agree. Some dude hits me, he's bought and paid for. I'll avoid the hell out of a confrontation, but once they physically attack me, that's considered me being in fear of my life. How do I know what the guy is planning? Will he stop at one punch?

    It's a conundrum for sure when you're CCW. I went to my wife's class with her and she had a much better instructor than I did.
    He went into depth about avoiding trouble. And by trouble I mean a shooting aftermath. He said he had asked every PA he could get ahold of about a CCL licensee getting beat up by an unarmed assailant. He said only one would answer and the answer was, It better be an emergency room whoopin'. Seems weighted against the good guy to me, but there you are.
    Much has been made in the media of Zimmerman not going to the ER for his injuries. I think it would have been in his favor had he done so.
    But i think his goose was cooked when the media made up a new phrase, "White-Latino" To describe him. And public opinion was steered right where they wanted it when NBC edited the 911 call tapes.
    We had a case of a CCW shooting recently. To much to type but there was some road rage involved. By the dead guy, turns out had been sentenced to anger management more than once. But the shooter should not have stopped. The PA is making an example of him.
    So i guess my point is Zimmerman could have done things differently. But regardless there is photographic proof he got the crap beat out of him. if his story is true, he's innocent. Beggared financially but innocent.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Razor, good comments and these echo my original purpose in this thread -- regardless of our opinions of Zimmerman's guilt or innocence or whether he's being nailed unfairly, my primary message is BE CAREFUL!

    If you carry concealed or even if you're defending your home, be completely aware of the laws where you live as well as the pro- or anti-gun climate of the government. Here in Texas we're normally in good circumstances, as our self defense laws are quite sensible and we also have a generally favorable climate, politically.

    But it doesn't matter. Regardless of where you live, it's essential that you have a clear idea of your legal stance in the event that you need to use deadly force. And specifically, my caution to everyone is that you also need to have a "script" rehearsed or memorized that will keep you as free from trouble as possible.

    Anything you say may be used against you, and that applies even if you've just lawfully and legally defended yourself. It may be your inner and secret desire to tell the world "That SOB got what he deserved, three hollowpoints to the chest, ha ha ha ha" but NEVER let yourself say this, not to the police, not to friends, not to your spouse, nobody, and most certainly not the press. A few off-the-cuff remarks might sink you or at least, even if you are exonerated, cause you needless trouble in the process.

    As I said previously, in addition to planning and maybe even rehearsing to some degree your physical response to an attack that justifies a lethal response by you, also rehearse to yourself what you'll say afterward. This could make a huge difference in how your case is reviewed.
  • Pelagic KayakerPelagic Kayaker Banned Posts: 1,503 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    How do I know what the guy is planning? Will he stop at one punch?

    Or worse yet; disarm you and then use the pistol on you or somene else.
  • bowserbbowserb Member Posts: 277 Member
    Yes, this is a crappy situation. Zimmerman screwed up big time. The dispatcher told him what to do, but he overreached. Martin, a 17-year old thug went to the convenience store where his drug supplier normally hangs out. Supplier was gone because of the rain, so he followed through with his cover story. Skittles? Really? His mentality is as feeble as the prosecution's star witness, who doesn't read cursive! Let's hear it for equal opportunity. Old comic routine, "Can you read? No. Can you write? No, but I can trace!" I think this case was prosecuted in hopes of avoiding riots. Black "activists" always seem to pick the worst cases to get behind, I guess, because they're no smarter than those who follow them. In any case we have this to look forward to:

    http://www.infowars.com/ex-chicago-cop-zimmerman-acquittal-to-cause-race-riots/
    (Yeah, I'm not that big on Alex Jones either, but the stories he passes on are sometimes valid.)

    And don't forget what we could have had to look forward to, if Zimmerman had walked the other way. (Note this is a disturbing 6/27/2013 New Jersey TV broadcast of a nannycam video that the victim has asked people to watch.)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dvvHMM6TF50

    My guess? Just as guns and ammo are coming back into availability, there's going to be another run on self defense handguns and shotguns...and ammunition, of course! As a matter of fact, I'm thinking about a 20-gauge myself. Remington or Mossberg, guys (low budget here)?
    "We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history." - Ayn Rand
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Mossberg 590-series are a very economical 12-ga shotgun, excellent for home defense, not much more than $100 new.

    Apparently police caught the nannycam thug. He'll likely get easy bail and probation for this!
  • bowserbbowserb Member Posts: 277 Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    Mossberg 590-series are a very economical 12-ga shotgun, excellent for home defense, not much more than $100 new.

    Apparently police caught the nannycam thug. He'll likely get easy bail and probation for this!
    Hey, Samz. Do you ever shop at Tomball Pawn? Every time I've looked, they had the best prices in town, along with knowledgeable people behind the counter. If you're a regular, like a friend of mine is (regular means regular customer, not just shopper), they always have some product that is not on display for casual shoppers. It's kindof a drive, from the near west side at least, but it's usually worth it.

    You didn't mean $100 new, did you? Typo? And I'm really thinking 20 gauge, not 12, primarily for mi esposa (the Senate passed amnesty).
    "We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history." - Ayn Rand
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,920 Senior Member
    bowserb wrote: »
    The dispatcher told him what to do, but he overreached.

    As an aside....I've known quite a few dispatchers....there are some really good ones - real lifesavers- and there seem to be an inordinate number of idiots - some are quite famous for their advise;

    For example...to the unarmed lady who had an irate ex beating down her door while threatening to kill her "I don't have any officers to send....if he gets in could you just ask him to leave?"

    Can't say that I know of a jurisdiction where a dispatchers orders carry the force of law....and by and large that's a good thing...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • KSU FirefighterKSU Firefighter Senior Member Posts: 3,249 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    As an aside....I've known quite a few dispatchers....there are some really good ones - real lifesavers- and there seem to be an inordinate number of idiots - some are quite famous for their advise;

    For example...to the unarmed lady who had an irate ex beating down her door while threatening to kill her "I don't have any officers to send....if he gets in could you just ask him to leave?"

    Can't say that I know of a jurisdiction where a dispatchers orders carry the force of law....and by and large that's a good thing...

    This. Some are great, others can be more of a hindrance than a help.
    The fire service needs a "culture of extinguishment not safety" Ray McCormack FDNY
  • terminator012terminator012 Senior Member Posts: 3,929 Senior Member
    Trial almost over. What do you think the outcome will be. I'm going out on a limb and saying they find him guilty of 2nd degree even though I don't think he is. It keeps the masses quiet.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    term, I'm thinking more and more that Zimmerman will go scot free. If the defense properly sums up the case and does a proper job of defining the parameters of the items that are required for a conviction, that is. I understand your reasons for his getting convicted but I'm also unsure that the jury will vote to convict just because it "keeps the masses quiet" -- remember that a conviction requires all jurors to agree. A hung jury is also possible and I've not heard anyone talk about that possibility, but it's certainly one option.
  • bowserbbowserb Member Posts: 277 Member
    I think we may have a jury that is afraid to not find Zimmerman guilty of something. It would be too difficult and expensive to put the whole jury and their families in Witness Protection. They're going to sit in a room deliberating what to do, not for the sake of Zimmerman or justice, but for their own and their families' safety.

    Holder's DOJ has helped organize protests here, even providing transportation for "protestors". I've heard from several unrelated sources that Obama wants to put martial law in place before the end of the year. Boston was a dry run. Now, riots will give him an excuse to "secure our major cities". Of course, a necessary part of that security will have to be confiscation of firearms, as there is too much risk of guns falling into the hands of the wrong people (wrong people = law abiding citizens.)

    Problem is, even with a so-so defense attorney, the prosecution's case is so weak, "Not guilty" seems an unavoidable outcome. Meanwhile, the mainstream media does its part with continued coverage of other black criminals like Sharpton, Jackson, and assorted wannabe "activists", and by showing the picture of Martin at 13 years old over and over. No, there is a problem for the jury, but there is an answer, although those who still believe in justice and not giving in to mob rule, will reject. Here's what could happen:

    The jury says "Guilty", maybe of manslaughter. They're off the hook, and I'm happy for them. Two possible paths, then. One. Zimmerman goes to prison--a federal prison where he quietly disappears into solitary confinement, and no one can contact him--because he is then put into Witness Protection. Or two. The judge in this case made many mistakes. An appeal which takes a year to get to trial, leaves the activists and their hired drones with nothing to do. These are low IQ, short attention span products of the Great Society. They go back to welfare fraud, burglary, car theft, robbery, selling their duplicate and triplicate free Obama Cellphones, and the other things they were doing before being recruited as protestors. The appeal happens quietly, and the trial judge's many mistakes get Zimmerman off quietly...and then he goes into witness protection.

    Frankly, while I have more than sufficient 'guns and ammo' to deal with riots, I'd rather save my ammo for the range, as the scumbag rioters are not worth even reloaded .223.
    "We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history." - Ayn Rand
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 10,914 Senior Member
    I have enough concern about riots that last night i installed a car safe in the wifes car for her drive to and from work.

    While not authorized for her to bring it into the work space, there is no issue with it remaining in the car during the day.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,093 Senior Member
    I'm thinking today and/or tomorrow will be good days to stay close to home. I really don't think it's going to take the jury long to come to a decision. I also think a "guilty" verdict will be rendered only for "self preservation" of the jury ,or political reasons OR, if they've got the cojones to actually going to stand up for justice, they'll find him not guilty
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,973 Senior Member
    As I recall there is no lesser charge that can be rendered because of the way he was charged.

    I predict either a hung jury or not guilty within three days of the end of the trial.

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • bowserbbowserb Member Posts: 277 Member
    Diver43 wrote: »
    I have enough concern about riots that last night i installed a car safe in the wifes car for her drive to and from work.
    While not authorized for her to bring it into the work space, there is no issue with it remaining in the car during the day.
    That's a smart move. Too many guns are stolen from cars. I'm urging my wife to start carrying the Colt to and from work for a while. She can take a gun inside, so that's no problem. Maybe she'll get in the habit and want to carry all the time--making use of that CHL and legal coverage we've been paying for.
    "We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history." - Ayn Rand
  • bowserbbowserb Member Posts: 277 Member
    BigDanS wrote: »
    As I recall there is no lesser charge that can be rendered because of the way he was charged.
    I predict either a hung jury or not guilty within three days of the end of the trial.
    D
    If a lesser charge is not possible, then the jury's best and safest bet might be an investment of two or three days of "deliberation", then declare that they are unable to reach a decision. I'm concerned for their safety and don't want to give the black hordes an excuse to riot--which is of course just a cover for mass stealing of whatever they can find that the liberals haven't taken from us to give to them already. And I really don't want to give Obama even a lame excuse to start confiscating guns. The commie Thug in Chief will do anything, given half a justification. We just need to leave him be for another three years.

    And yeah, you NSA dipsticks reading this can save it for later.
    "We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history." - Ayn Rand
  • BullgatorBullgator Member Posts: 393 Member
    BigDanS wrote: »
    As I recall there is no lesser charge that can be rendered because of the way he was charged.

    D

    They can find him guilty of a lesser charge. The judge and attorneys will be going over the jury instructions today.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    It looks like the judge is getting onboard with the prosecution- - - - -In case of a conviction this one could get overturned on appeal just from the judge's obvious bias in the past couple of days. Maybe the fix is in?
    Jerry
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,395 Senior Member
    Since it's been raining every day since June 29th I've been watching the trial coverage. In my opinion, the prosecution has utterly failed to prove their case for either 2nd degree or manslaughter. The burden of proof is theirs to make, and must be beyond reasonable doubt. They've failed.

    Maybe they could include a lesser charge of littering against Zimmerman?
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    In my opinion, the prosecution has utterly failed to prove their case for either 2nd degree or manslaughter. The burden of proof is theirs to make, and must be beyond reasonable doubt. They've failed.

    Maybe they could include a lesser charge of littering against Zimmerman?
    The prosecution was trying for child abuse. Talk about grabbing at straws.

    I totally agree. The prosecution failed miserably to supply the burden of proof needed to show anything beyond a reasonable doubt. It is now beyond obvious that this was nothing more than a politically motivated show trial.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • 1965Jeff1965Jeff Senior Member Posts: 1,644 Senior Member
    I watched some of the closing remarks for the prosecution, the straw grasping and distortion of the facts of the case made me sick. If they were so convinced a crime occurred, why the delay with the charges? I hope he gets off, is there really that much buzz in the big cities for rioting?
  • terminator012terminator012 Senior Member Posts: 3,929 Senior Member
    I saw some of it. They tried to make him look like he lied about everything.

    sent from my droid jeeping and surviving in the back woods
  • bowserbbowserb Member Posts: 277 Member
    1965Jeff wrote: »
    I watched some of the closing remarks for the prosecution, the straw grasping and distortion of the facts of the case made me sick. If they were so convinced a crime occurred, why the delay with the charges? I hope he gets off, is there really that much buzz in the big cities for rioting?
    The masses that are a product of the Great Society have been taught for several generations that they are owed everything. By now the leftists running the country are already taking from taxpayers to give to the chronic nonworking welfare class just about everything from luxury housing, to food (including the ability to use food stamps in restaurants!!!), to free cell phones, Internet, and cable TV. The few things we haven't been taxed to give to the permanent welfare class, they take any opportunity to riot and steal. Stealing stuff and destroying what they don't steal. That's what riots are about. And now we have the DOJ encouraging them.
    "We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history." - Ayn Rand
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,395 Senior Member
    The prosecuting attorney giving the closing statement was a freakin' moron. No facts to speak of, but lots of emotional appeal, innuendo, outright lying, and fabricating his own facts. He spread more manure in his closing statement than a 1,000 cow herd could produce in one year easily. If you have to stoop to that level of drama to make your case, then you didn't have a case to begin with, IMO.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    I am almost thinking that Zimmerman had to be tried if only so they could say, "Look... We tried the dude. He was acquitted. We did something." The prosecutor used just about every stupid theory about what and why Zimmerman "murdered" Martin that has been floating around in the media and internet. What he didn't seem to ask was why would Zimmerman suddenly get all "cop" and "vigilante" when he knew darn well the police would be there any second? I am almost betting that they themselves think it was stupid to try this case but they have to go through the motions so they can appease the people out for Zimmerman's head. This is totally political and has nothing to do with justice.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    If anyone thinks I'm going to actually read through over 60+ responses, you're dreaming. So at the risk of my points having been already addressed before this, here goes.

    1. If Mr. Martin had only good intentions in that neighborhood, and felt that he was being stalked by Mr. Zimmerman, why didn't Martin call the police? He had a cell phone. Normal, law-abiding people call the cops when they need help, they don't turn on their stalker, take the law into their own hands, and instigate a physical confrontation. Had Martin called 911, it is a certainty that the police would have called Zimmerman back and under those circumstances, we would have had a different result. Martin's failure to call the police means to me that he had something going on that he didn't want them to discover upon their arrival.

    2. The time line works in Mr. Zimmerman's favor. Since a bullet to the heart tends to disable the recipient, Zimmerman's wounds - broken nose, etc., had to have been inflicted before Martin was shot and killed. That means Martin struck first.

    3. When you call the police, you have no idea when they will actually arrive on the scene. There might be an officer a block and a minute away from you, or there might not be an officer available for a half hour. Some nights are busier than others. Some much less busy. The very last thing anybody contemplating a 2nd degree murder would do is call the police right before he attempts it. He might hear sirens and see lights even as he hangs up the phone. Never a good thing when contemplating a crime. Zimmerman knew he had been told to stay in his vehicle. He knew he was told the PD needed no further input from him. He knew the Neighborhood Watch rules and regulations. Knowing what he knew, it makes no sense whatsoever that he would have shot Martin unless he felt he absolutely had to. Knowing that he already exceeded his parameters by leaving his vehicle, and might already be in trouble with the PD and the HOA, he would have had to be insane to exceed them further by murdering Martin. Zimmerman is not insane. Somewhat noncompliant, but far from crazy. Regardless of how he got himself into that fracas with Martin, who also made his own share of bad decisions that night, there they were, perhaps equally where neither one should have been, and Zimmerman, injured, frightened out of his mind, in great pain, and in understandable fear of further injury, did what anyone with the option Zimmerman had at his disposable-specifically-use his weapon to defend himself.

    4. Most events like this are inevitably found to be a "comedy of errors" - the result of bad calls and bad decisions all around. That fact alone mitigates to reasonable doubt.
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