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blkbird305
Posts: 220 Member
Alternatives to the 22LR?
blkbird305
Posts: 220 Member
This ammo shortage has got me to thinking, if the 22LR market does not recover (Im sure it will eventually) what would be a good alternative round that does a similar job to the 22LR? I think a centerfire would be best since you could roll your own and not have to worry about relying on the ammo market.
The first thing that come to my mind is the 25 ACP rifle that our very own Supergenius Redneck built. Cheap on powder and lead and factory ammo is available, just not very inexpensive (around $.25 a round).
The other two that I can think of do not require a custom rifle and are also more high performance than the 22LR. I thought about the 22 Hornet and the 5.7x28 FN.
The 5.7 is not very cheap to shoot if you are running factory ammo only, even with the new FMJ stuff from Federal/American Eagle and Fiocchi. Also, the options on firearms is pretty limited. Pretty much the same case for the 22 Hornet.
Can yall think of any alternatives to the 22 LR?
The first thing that come to my mind is the 25 ACP rifle that our very own Supergenius Redneck built. Cheap on powder and lead and factory ammo is available, just not very inexpensive (around $.25 a round).
The other two that I can think of do not require a custom rifle and are also more high performance than the 22LR. I thought about the 22 Hornet and the 5.7x28 FN.
The 5.7 is not very cheap to shoot if you are running factory ammo only, even with the new FMJ stuff from Federal/American Eagle and Fiocchi. Also, the options on firearms is pretty limited. Pretty much the same case for the 22 Hornet.
Can yall think of any alternatives to the 22 LR?
Replies
Yep, and I use mine a lot. For sight picture, breathing and trigger squeeze practice I use bbs. ammo doesn't get much cheaper than that
If you reload 9mm or .38 special with lead you cast yourself and get the cheapest primer possible, this would be the way to go.
You would have to be really good at sourcing to do this:
Primer $0.025
Bullet $ 0.07 if you buy $0.03 if you cast your own lead
Powder 4.5 grains of Bullseye, at 7000 gr per ld at $25 a can = $25/ (7000/4.5) = $0.016 per round
Cost per round about $0.071 to $0.11 per round or about $3.55 to $5.50 per 50.
The alternative would be .38 special
3.1 grains of Bullseye at $25 a lb would be about $0.012 per round
$0.08 for a purchased lead bullet or $0.03 cast your own
$0.025 primer cost
.012 + .03+ .025 = less than $0.07 per round or $3.50 per 50 rounds cast your own
.012 + .08+ .025 = less than $0.12 per round or $6.00 per 50 rounds buy lead bullets
A revolver is easier to load for because you don't have to hunt your brass with similar costs.
And these are full power loads. You could cheap out the powder and get a poof loads.
38 spl - 150 bullet - 2.7 bullseye - 665 fps
Lyman cast bullet handbook, c.1973
D
Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
Ya know with the ammo shortages and especially .22 ammo (of all varieties) I think we may see folks not "Blasting" away so much with semi-autos when they can find .22 ammo to shoot. I mean the days of shooting 1/2 or whole 500 round brick in one afternoon may just be a thing of the past.
I do see one positive effect of this, that is, marksmanship may get better in general and each fired .22 may be carefully scrutinized/savored. Remember grandpa or you old man shooting just a few shots or six times from a revolver and that's all he should shoot and look at you funny for "Wasting Ammo" because they remembered hard times.
Plus, folks may buy more "Target" grade rifles that are single-shot or bolt action in .22 to get the most outta their ammo bucks spent.
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
But not "Lead Free"........:tooth:
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
Lee Electric 10 lb lead pot $80
Dipper $8
Electric use 500 watts per hour to melt plus 200 watts per hour to run, about $1.00 per session
6 cavity bullet mold $60
Lube - $1.00 per batch ( estimate )
You need a cooling bucket of water, and a storage box, but for arguments sake lets just call that free.
Lowest cost after buying the gear is about $2.00 per session and you can yield about 100 to 150 150 grain bullets in three hours time. ( setup , heating, casting, cleanup ) Perhaps I should lower the cost to .01 per bullet for free lead, no equipment cost. The pot, dipper and mold cost about $150. If you cast 10,000 rounds that's $.015 per bullet.
Cost per bullet at 10,000 cast is about .025 to .03 per bullet.
Then again there's your freely given labor.
IMHO
D
Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
Next cheapest one to load for I own is the single shot .32 H&R Magnum on a 20 gauge NEF shotgun frame. I shoot it mostly with .32 Long as that is cheap stuff to reload for, and load the .32 Mag. to minimum load data for lead bullets. It's a .308 barrel, so I just size the bullets to .310 diameter and crimp the case to hold the bullet. Casting lead bullets is WAY cheaper than buying if you have some spare time, and bullet lube is easy to make. And loading to minimum velocity levels is easy on the cases. I've got at least 30 loadings from some of my cases with very few that have had to be tossed. Nice thing about the .32 H&R mag cases is that they can easily be trimmed to .32 Long if a case neck gets a split started. I have yet to throw out any of the .25 ACP cases I started with; it just doesn't seem to be hard on cases.
Lee 2-cavity molds can produce some good bullets cheap 'n' fast. And most any small to medium case capacity cartridge can be loaded cheaply with lead bullets.
.22 LR is hard to beat for cheap shooting, but if you have primers and cases and a little powder, loading cast lead bullets can sure ease the pains of no ammunition on the shelves.
I probably paid for my bottom pour mold several times over casting fishing jig heads @ $10/100. I still do that in the winter. You can mold a pile of them in 1/32, 1/16, and 1/8 oz. size in short order. If I paint them, the price is $25/100 as that is a pain in the patootie.
And if you have a turkey fryer burner, a cast iron pot can be bought to melt the lead for pouring into ingots. And turkey frier propane burners are cheap. You can melt a few tons of lead with a 20 lb. bottle of propane.
― Douglas Adams
And yes, I tend to overthink things...
So if I use your numbers:
Fixed costs: pot , mold, $80 / 10000 rounds = .008 per
Variable costs: lube, electricity = .15 / 100 = .0015 per
About $0.01 per bullet per 10,000 if lead is free.
.38 special low power load
.01 bullet, .025 primer. 2.7 gr bullseye 0.01 = $0.045 per light .38 special round or $2.25 per box of 50 .38 special light loads. You did it. Cheap as .22 LR
D
Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
Lawdy Lawdy I hope not. That's what got me hooked on shooting. If those days never come back a major source of enjoyment will be gone.
"Slow is smooth, smooth is fast, and speed is the economy of motion" - Scott Jedlinski
Never beat the .22 LR, though. There have been cartridges based on the .25 ACP necked down to .22 or smaller. Cartridge Conversions lists one, I'm pretty sure, but it wouldn't be a money saver and require sizing dies and case forming etc.
(In California surfer accent) Dude! You should load a few of my .17 K Hornet rounds! Gnarly, man! :rotflmao:
― Douglas Adams
Right Sarge, I see lots of 17HMR on the shelves, right next to where the .22 LR USED to be. There is also lots of .22 shorts available.
Sometimes, I don't even know who you are. :head:
The following is clue #1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKpEoRlcHfA
:tooth:
― Douglas Adams
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QAkBAC4Srg
― Douglas Adams
That I find a bit surprising unless they are just too expensive
I thought about picking up a 270 Win for squirrels since ammo is available for it but I was afraid that I would pop a squirrel with one and it would just laugh or piss it off.
D
Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
I agree Dan, the cost does add up, but it's still better than no ammo. And it is cheaper than what you will pay for ready made centerfire ammo when you can find it during these crunch times.
I'm just happy that the last time ammo was tight I over bought. I felt stupid for doing it when just a few months later the shelves were again full of ammo, but I didn't shoot it up, and this time I still have 22lr in volume. I'm a little more frugal about my shooting than I used to be, but I still go through several boxes during a range session.
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
Small enough to fit the criteria of small and cheap to load for. Could also be manufactured cheaper and more solid-state like CCI Blazers
Same general power category. Workable for low noise options and higher power versions.
Almost large enough to where you wouldn't need tweezers to handload for them, unlike the .25ACP.
Large enough to where casting bullets would be workable. .22's and .25's are a little problematic in that it's hard to get a mold up to temperature and keep it there with that little lead being poured.
What I DON'T have sorted out in my head is whether this round should be rimmed or rimless, or if there should be two rounds that are otherwise identical but for this feature. Rimless has obvious advantages for feeding in self-loaders, while headspacing on a rim has advantages in things like revolver function and longer chambers to accommodate magnums, special heavy bullets (a fast twist should be a standard, rectifying one of the .22's versatility drawbacks)
"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
They can even shoot colt ammo....LOL
To technically be a sub you would need to do the same.
I like the .32 S&W, does it have a rifle offering? I cannot recall a .32 S&W rifle.
D
Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
The Stevens Favorite and 44 1/2 action rifles were chambered for the .32 S&W and the .32 S&W Long cartridges. Marlin made a short run of the 1894 in .32 H&R Magnum, but don't seem to offer it now. Long ago, the 1894 was offered in .32-20 chambering.
I have a single shot .32 H&R Mag. rifle, though.
― Douglas Adams
From top:
.38-55, .44 Mag., .357 Mag. and .32 H&R Mag.
I don't know why Rossi doesn't make a lever action in .32 H&R Magnum or .327 Magnum. One in carbine length, and one with a full octagon barrel would be pretty interesting and handy little rifles. The carbine would be an ideal pest control rifle loaded with .32 Long.
― Douglas Adams