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Zimmerman Trial Kel-Tec DAO pistol discussions

Mrs_ChiefMrs_Chief MemberPosts: 292 Member
Anyolyone catch this part of the trial yesterday. I thought the FDLE gal (firearms expert for FLA) did a pretty good job of describing the differences between a SA/DA pistol and those that make a transition to SA after the first round is fired as compared to the one he used which is DAO.

She also discussed the De-Cocker mechanism some semi-autos have (like my Ruger P-89).

Zimmerman's lawyer did a good job on some points, like to carry a pistol like his clients it is a common practice to chamber a round (like LEOs do with their pistols). I don't know if the fact was pointed out it is almost impossible to rack the slide of a pistol only using one hand, especially if you are fending off an attacker you wouldn't have two hands free to do it.

They said the FLA made Kel-Tec has a 4 3/4 pound trigger pull and the lawyer pointed out the safety of the pistol is the long pull that deliberately has to be pulled to make it fire. The expert said that's true, but wouldn't exactly call it a safety. Semantics?

Anyhow, I wonder how many of the cops were carrying a Glock or how much the jury will weigh in on the type pistol carried by the defendant.


Big Chief

Replies

  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,992 Senior Member
    It's really dumb.

    Every revolver out there has a round ready to go, What makes a pistol different?

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • Mrs_ChiefMrs_Chief Member Posts: 292 Member
    BigDanS wrote: »
    It's really dumb.

    Every revolver out there has a round ready to go, What makes a pistol different?

    D

    Yes and the only revolver I know of with a safety is the Heritage Arms ones and some European ones. But the idy to a layman in the jury of a pistol without a "Safety" could sway their opinion if not elaborated on. If a revolver was used it probably wouldn't be an issue.

    Makes one wonder, it took over 80 days to make charges against Zimmerman, the local police chief resigned and the DA before they were fired(?) because they didn't press charges or find any wrongdoing. The State/GOV got involved with obvious pressure from the Feds and loud mouths/race baiters like Al Sharpton and presto he was charged.

    I don't think either one of them were/are innocent 100%....maybe not 2nd degree murder for Zimmerman, but if stupidity were a crime??????

    Not all is adding up either for either side. Time will tell and it should go to a jury soon. He is supposed to be judged by a jury of his peers, not the "Victims" family, the news media or anyone else.

    Big Chief
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Excellent points, Chief. (I understand you're using Mrs. login till your computer is fixed, right?)

    Those of you who are following the trial more closely than I, a question please... In this specific case, does the jury have the option of finding Zimmerman innocent of 2nd degree murder but guilty of a lesser crime, such as manslaughter? Or does the jury have to either convict on 2ndDeg or set him free?

    Re. this DA/SA and safety thing, it's possible, as you imply, that the prosecution is trying to sway the jury into thinking that Zimmerman was "out for a shooting" because a round was chambered. Most people, learning what they know about guns from TV cop shows, think that nobody keeps a round chambered until they are actually under attack or something.

    If the prosecution focuses on this, the defense needs to make the point clear.

    I don't think the prosecution has made the case for 2nd degree murder at all, because of the precise definition, you have to show malice and anger and such. Which is why I'm asking about the potential for a lesser degree conviction.

    Thanks for the good points, Chief.
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,871 Senior Member
    BigDanS wrote: »
    It's really dumb.

    What makes a pistol different?

    D

    Libs and Lawyers
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,561 Senior Member
    Regarding the case and options of sentencing: it depends on how the state charges him. I'm not sure they charged him with lesser charges inclusive or not. It's the same thing that was done with Casey Anthony, and why the jury acquitted her of that charge: what she didn't wasn't as severe as what she was charged with.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    I believe I've heard a couple of the Fox News foxy lady lawyers mention that the prosecution dropped the ball by NOT adding "lesser included" language to the charges. It appears they were swinging for the bleachers with the murder charge, counting on public opinion to convict Zimmerman. They might be right, particularly with that nutcase congresswoman in the cowboy hat, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and Curious George all getting in their nickel's worth on the subject within the first few days of the controversy.
    Jerry
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,561 Senior Member
    And then you have the conspiracy theorists who say the state avoided adding "lesser included" language to the charges gambling that the jury would not convict of second degree murder because the charges are too severe, and that the trial is all being done to placate folks. "Well, we tried, but the jury just didn't convict him..."

    If that is true, it really aggravates me because of all the money spent on this whole thing. Wasted money!
    Overkill is underrated.
  • Mrs_ChiefMrs_Chief Member Posts: 292 Member
    Excellent points, Chief. (I understand you're using Mrs. login till your computer is fixed, right?)

    My computers are fine, I just didn't bring my laptop with me for the week and it's too much hassle to log on to and fro. Big Chief


    Also, forgive my typing..she has this cotton picker set to her liking I breathe hard and the screen changes, gets too small to see or so large one line takes up the screen! Among other settings I'm not used to.
  • Mrs_ChiefMrs_Chief Member Posts: 292 Member
    I reckon whatever the trials outcome Zimmerman will face unlawful death civil lawsuits.

    I wonder since is his life isn't worth a pile of beans in or outta jail they will offer him some kind of witness protection like program. The state of FLA should have to pay for it for pursuing this case if they lose!

    Big Chief
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    I don't believe the jury will be unduly concerned with the nature of Zimmerman's gun. I've been empaneled on enough juries to know that they are not fooled with sideshows like that. This case will hinge entirely on Zimmerman's veracity. The prosecution has already caught him a big lie during his Hannity (Fox)interview about his knowledge of the law, and that undermines his whole side of it, and thus his whole defense. With his self-discrediting, that leaves only one credible theory of the crime -the prosecution's. When? ohhh when? when? when? will defendants learn to shut the eff up and NEVER talk to the press. What part of "ANYTHING you say can and will be used against you" don't they, and their attorneys understand?
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,953 Senior Member
    Mrs_Chief wrote: »
    :snip: I don't know if the fact was pointed out it is almost impossible to rack the slide of a pistol only using one hand, especially if you are fending off an attacker you wouldn't have two hands free to do it. :/snip:


    Big Chief

    I do see your point and I don't disagree at all that there should be one in the chamber ready to go, but it's very possible to run the slide with just one hand......I'd only recommend it as a malfunction clearing excersize and not to get the gun in the fight, but it's not hard most of the time when practiced properly.
  • Jim TomJim Tom Member Posts: 338 Member
    I don't believe the jury will be unduly concerned with the nature of Zimmerman's gun. I've been empaneled on enough juries to know that they are not fooled with sideshows like that. This case will hinge entirely on Zimmerman's veracity. The prosecution has already caught him a big lie during his Hannity (Fox)interview about his knowledge of the law, and that undermines his whole side of it, and thus his whole defense. With his self-discrediting, that leaves only one credible theory of the crime -the prosecution's. When? ohhh when? when? when? will defendants learn to shut the eff up and NEVER talk to the press. What part of "ANYTHING you say can and will be used against you" don't they, and their attorneys understand

    Is it against the law in Florida to lie to or misinform Hannity? I think the prosecution is throwing the case because their investigation has turned up a lot of facts about the "victim" that aren't admissible in this trial. Do I know what really happened? Not at all. I do know everything Sharpton has ever been involved in was a hustle.
  • Mrs_ChiefMrs_Chief Member Posts: 292 Member
    I wouldn't wanna be in Zimmerman's shoes no matter the outcome of this trial :yikes:

    Big Chief
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    horselips wrote: »
    I don't believe the jury will be unduly concerned with the nature of Zimmerman's gun. I've been empaneled on enough juries to know that they are not fooled with sideshows like that. This case will hinge entirely on Zimmerman's veracity. The prosecution has already caught him a big lie during his Hannity (Fox)interview about his knowledge of the law, and that undermines his whole side of it, and thus his whole defense. With his self-discrediting, that leaves only one credible theory of the crime -the prosecution's. When? ohhh when? when? when? will defendants learn to shut the eff up and NEVER talk to the press. What part of "ANYTHING you say can and will be used against you" don't they, and their attorneys understand?

    Agree totally, horse. As per the thread I started earlier, re. keeping the mouth shut if ever involved in a shooting. Especially, hello Mr. Zimmerman!!, the press, no matter how sympathetic they may be, because once your statement is out there, it's public record. I'm appalled actually that Zimmerman's attorney let him speak to Hannity. Not that Hannity himself would be a problem, but ANY talking with the press certainly would be.

    Zimmerman may be totally innocent in the whole case (although I personally think he's partially to blame for what happened) but even if innocent, he's certainly not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, and I'm guessing he thought that the Hannity interview would put him in a good light with his pro-gun pals or something? but his attorney should have said NO!
  • NomadacNomadac Senior Member Posts: 902 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    Agree totally, horse. As per the thread I started earlier, re. keeping the mouth shut if ever involved in a shooting. Especially, hello Mr. Zimmerman!!, the press, no matter how sympathetic they may be, because once your statement is out there, it's public record. I'm appalled actually that Zimmerman's attorney let him speak to Hannity. Not that Hannity himself would be a problem, but ANY talking with the press certainly would be.

    Zimmerman may be totally innocent in the whole case (although I personally think he's partially to blame for what happened) but even if innocent, he's certainly not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, and I'm guessing he thought that the Hannity interview would put him in a good light with his pro-gun pals or something? but his attorney should have said NO!

    Sam, but the interview with Hannity may be of benefit as Zimmerman was able to explain his side of the issue and prevents from cross examining his statements by the Prosecution. This eliminates from Zimmerman from having to testify as to what happened.
    On today's show the Coroner was on the stand, and stated (w/0 the jury present) that Trayvon had marijuana in his system which could have caused him to react as he did. But the Judge would not allow this to be heard by the jury, same for why he was he was not in school and drug and other discipline issues.

    This whole trial is racist by the State, the Media and Black groups, and if it were two blacks or two whites neither would be in court charged with anything.
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,463 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    I'll kiss yer if you can run an auto one handed with someone on top of you throwing you an whoopin.

    Had a guy in the shop today that I'd be willing to put money on being able to do that...
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,953 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    I'll kiss yer if you can run an auto one handed with someone on top of you throwing you an whoopin.

    There wouldn't be any need to if there's one in the chamber ready to go, as was the case here. That's why I specified that.

    All I was pointing out is that it is possible to run an auto with one hand. It is not impossible. If somebody is on me and whooping me and I find myself needing to run the slide on my pistol, I guess something went really wrong and I've got some work to do.

    In other words, my point had nothing to do with this particular case. Just clarifying that it is possible. You do whatever is necessary to stay in the fight and win.
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,721 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    I'll kiss yer if you can run an auto one handed with someone on top of you throwing you an whoopin.

    This sounds like a exercise for you and the carny.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • Mrs_ChiefMrs_Chief Member Posts: 292 Member
    cpj wrote: »
    If we ever meet up, I'm game.
    But I have a feeling I best put on my best lipstick...


    And yer Spandex shorts :tooth:

    Big Chief
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,484 Senior Member
    I lived in riverside county during the riots and fear the same thing will happen if zimmerman is found innocent. I'm better prepared this time.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    With the recent tendency for a lot more people to arm themselves and be willing to take responsibility for their own security, "rioters" are probably a lot more likely to become "targets of opportunity" than they have been before. I have a feeling if there are any riots, they're going to be pretty short-lived, and very bloody this time around.
    Jerry
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    I think the trial is about ready to go to the jury now. Many are saying the State screwed the pooch and should have charged him with a lessor crime (if at all) if they wanted a conviction. Never know what the jury will vote for until it's over. It will be interesting, to say the least.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • bowserbbowserb Member Posts: 277 Member
    horselips wrote: »
    I don't believe the jury will be unduly concerned with the nature of Zimmerman's gun. I've been empaneled on enough juries to know that they are not fooled with sideshows like that.
    Yes, but you are knowledgeable and could have corrected a misunderstanding. Most people learn about guns from TV and the movies. How many times have you heard the sound of a hammer being cocked, when the person on the screen was holding a Glock? Or heard brass hitting the floor when the a revolver was being fired? The Foley sound people have created lots of wrong impressions over the years (like every helicopter sounds like a Bell Huey?)

    Juries get less intelligent every day. Unfortunately, those who would be most qualified as jurors often get out of serving. In Houston a few years ago, the (Democrat, of course) mayor did a TV spot pleading with citizens to show up for jury duty. He complained that only 20% of those summoned actually show up! That of course told those of us among the 20% that we were chumps. I read that a year later, the percentage had dropped even lower. Big surprise, eh? I'd hate to put my life in the hands of some of the people I've sat among in a jury panel. The one time I actually was selected (I'm usually excluded, because I show up in a suit), I felt compelled to take charge of the jury's deliberations, because no one had a clue. And my only experience with a jury was from Twelve Angry Men (1957)!
    "We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history." - Ayn Rand
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