Home Main Category Personal Defense

Don't talk to the police

tennmiketennmike Senior MemberPosts: 27,457 Senior Member
This video is well worth watching. A lawyer explains why you should never talk to the police, and a detective tells you why, if you do talk to the police, you will provide them the rope with which to hang yourself.

Invoking the 5th Amendment is your right. Exercise it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
  I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
― Douglas Adams
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Replies

  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,463 Senior Member
    Yes, but invoking the 5th can also be used as an omission to guilt....
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 6,244 Senior Member
    Yes, but invoking the 5th can also be used as an omission to guilt....

    How so? Did you mean admission?
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    Yes, but invoking the 5th can also be used as an omission to guilt....

    Only if you fail to verbally invoke it. You MUST specifically state that you are invoking the 5th. Just remaining silent can be used against you.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • WeatherbyWeatherby Senior Member Posts: 4,953 Senior Member
    That is exactly opposite of what Massad Ayoob suggests.
    I think it would Be interesting to have him give some comments on this.
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 11,404 Senior Member
    Weatherby wrote: »
    That is exactly opposite of what Massad Ayoob suggests.
    I think it would Be interesting to have him give some comments on this.

    Ayoob is a police officer. He has the default view that cops are good and just and want the real truth to be revealed. Unfortunately, that is not always the case.

    "I was afraid for my life officer. That person was a threat to my life. I think it would be best if I waited for my lawyer to get here before I gave my statement"

    Then shut up.

    In all other circumstances- Answer direct questions, do not give consent, record when you can. Be polite, but do not give in to bullying.

    Go search youtube on "Refusing Search" or "Refusing Checkpoint Search".
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • avmechavmech Senior Member Posts: 856 Senior Member
    Step kid invoked the 5th once and proceeded to get his butt kicked by the cops, literally
    NRA Benefactor Member
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,561 Senior Member
    Ayoob is a reserve police officer who's courtroom experience is often as an expert witness. He's knowledgeable about what he's done, but might not be knowledgeable about all aspects, with his advice derived from his own experiences, like most people.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,463 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    How so?

    Recent supreme court ruling. Silence can be used against you...


    http://www.ibtimes.com/supreme-court-self-incrimination-ruling-no-right-remain-silent-unless-you-speak-1324515
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    The festering paranoia of the Yankee government regarding the citizenry is metastasizing throughout the "government community," right down to the local level. Janet Napolitano, Secretary of Homeland Security suggested that returning veterans ought to be considered potential terrorists because of the training they received in our services. The unfathomable hoarding of truly ridiculous quantities of ammunition too expensive for practice and suitable for use exclusively on civilians is a red flag. The eagerness and urgency with which President Obama is trying to sign away our liberty and sovereignty to the UN is another. The IRS. The NSA. Every aspect of the growth of every tentacle of government is founded more on fear than any possible policy consideration. Your friendly neighborhood cop, once seen whistling while strolling his beat, twirling his nightstick and keeping a firm but understanding lid on things, is now dressed in black, carries an M4, rides around in an APC, and stares at you anonymously through his face mask. The line between 'us' and 'them' has never been so thick.

    I find it very difficult to trust my local police department. My city is planted thick with cameras - every busy intersection and large areas of downtown are covered, with more to come. I feel the Information Age has morphed into a sinister Age of Intel, featuring unlimited surveillance and data mining. My secrets are not just mine, but also theirs. And there are so many of 'them' working for the government, of what value is any promise of confidentiality regarding my information if a sizeable percentage of the population has access to my data? Obviously, of no value whatsoever.

    The more government wants to do for me, the farther from it I want to run. The price is always too high. OK, end of rant.

    Should one ever talk to the police? Not just "no," but "HELL NO!"
  • terminator012terminator012 Senior Member Posts: 3,929 Senior Member
    Oh crap, a 48 minute video would take me a week to watch on my internet.:angry: I will just read your comments.
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,484 Senior Member
    We can thank Bush for the Patriot Act but we can thank obama (and Congress who extended it) for this level of abuse. I will vote for anyone who promises to repeal it and abolish the dept of "Homeland (in)Security" which has become Barry's version of the Nazi SS.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member

    Doesn't tell the whole story. Read the whole situation here:
    Read pages 4 and 5 specifically. You seem to be missing the point. The protection of the 5th Amendment must be verbally invoked, just remaining silent is not invoking the 5th Amendment protection!
    http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/12pdf/12-246_7l48.pdf
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Trust me it results in a very bad time for the offending officer.

    Did that obnoxious jerk get anything other than a slap on the wrist?
    Jerry
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    It sounds like he deserved every one of those consequences. Good on ya for maybe saving some other citizen from even worse treatment! The guy sounded like a loose cannon, no matter how good his prior record might have been.
    Jerry
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,824 Senior Member
    avmech wrote: »
    Step kid invoked the 5th once and proceeded to get his butt kicked by the cops, literally

    Imagine that.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    Michakav wrote: »
    Imagine that.

    Well, there's no guarantees in this world. If you invoke the fifth and you are abused for doing it, if you're really a constitutionalist and give a damn about this country, you will take it to court. If you don't get satisfactory results, you need to appeal that court's decision. If that court doesn't give you the satisfaction you deserve, you need to go to a higher level, and so on and so forth until justice is served, because it is your constitutional right and also your duty as a citizen of this country to try and help insure the Constitution is upheld. One reason tyrants get away with their abuse is because people don't want to rock the boat.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,721 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    If that court doesn't give you the satisfaction you deserve, you need to go to a higher level, and so on and so forth until justice is served, because it is your constitutional right and also your duty as a citizen of this country to try and help insure the Constitution is upheld. One reason tyrants get away with their abuse is because people don't want to rock the boat.

    It's got nothing to do with rocking the boat. It's about not having unlimited resources to go to court time and time again.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • avmechavmech Senior Member Posts: 856 Senior Member
    Michakav wrote: »
    Imagine that.

    What the hell is that supposed to mean? Turns out the cop has a record of this and yes it is going to court. So you aren't that smart now are you? (I will keep the rest of my remarks regarding you to myself to be civil).

    Step kid in his forties, not a young punk, verbally said he was invoking the 5th twice. Had nothing to do with booze, drugs, etc just a cop asking questions about things that had absolutely nothing to do with the matter at hand, overstepping his boundaries in a very aggressive manner, similar to Wambli's situation.
    NRA Benefactor Member
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    It's a very good video, but it leaves me with an important question:

    What if you are just a witness? The police, if they are good at their job, will assume that anybody on the scene is a possible suspect. Suppose you believe that you are the only witness, and that once you tell them the stuff that only you, the perp, and the shooter know, it could be construed by the police as implicating you?
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    It's a very good video, but it leaves me with an important question:

    What if you are just a witness? The police, if they are good at their job, will assume that anybody on the scene is a possible suspect. Suppose you believe that you are the only witness, and that once you tell them the stuff that only you, the perp, and the shooter know, it could be construed by the police as implicating you?

    Similar thing happened to me when I was in nuke power school. A friend in the same class as me had the adjoining apartment next to me. We were grilling burgers one Saturday on the patio out back and waiting for the gal pals to show up. A really stupid knothead lived in an upstairs apartment. He disliked my friend a lot for no reason. This knothead had NO friends in the apartment complex and went out of his way to be a jerk.

    Somebody keyed his car and he decided it was my friend. He came down, and got into a heated argument about it, threw a sucker punch that connected, and my friend went ballistic. He beat the guy down in short order and left him where he ended up to fend for himself. A man upstairs came out on his balcony and said he called the cops. My friend knew a lawyer in town and called him; lawyer told both of us to say nothing until he got there, and to tell the cops that he told us to say nothing until he got there. I was the only witness to the initial argument and fight; lookie-loos came out after the fight started.

    Cops arrived shortly and started their 'investigation' by trying to browbeat us into telling them what happened even after we informed them that our lawyer had said not to say anything until he got there. They were persistent, belligerent, and attempted to intimidate us into making a statement. To make a long story short, we got a ride to the police station, and the lawyer gave them a good talking to, and with his help we sorted it all out. The guy's car was keyed while we were in class all day the day before, and the knothead admitted to the cops he threw the first punch. My friend and I were 'interviewed' (read interrogated) separately, but after we'd talked to the lawyer, and he was with us during questioning. Cops intimidate the person across the table, and a good lawyer intimidates the cop. Seems fair.

    My take on it was that the cops didn't want the truth, just multiple arrests. We walked out with the lawyer a couple hours later. The knothead got booked for several assault and battery related charges.

    Court was a different place as a prosecution witness. County prosecutor prepared me well, as well as my friend, and the defense lawyer didn't stand a chance. Guy traded a 30 days in jail plea bargain for 6 months in the city work house facility. Win-win.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    The few times I've been involved in near-shooting incidents, I had zero problems with the police. I was extremely reticent to talk more than just to provide a basic "feared for my life" statement, of course, but the cops were completely accepting to this and didn't push me at all for more.

    I did of course tell them I'd be happy to talk further under advice of my attorney but I was never asked to do so, with or without lawyer present.

    I was treated in a very congenial fashion, professional but not pushy. I'd of course read all the Ayoob stuff and other books on this subject and knew what to say, or rather, what not to say.

    Nevertheless I didn't consider the cops as my enemy and frankly haven't thought that since I was a teenager sneaking beers. I've never had one adverse experience with cops since that era. Of course, when I was a teenager, cops rode sabertooth tigers and only had sharp sticks for sidearms. Those were the days!
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,824 Senior Member
    avmech wrote: »
    What the hell is that supposed to mean? Turns out the cop has a record of this and yes it is going to court. So you aren't that smart now are you? (I will keep the rest of my remarks regarding you to myself to be civil).

    Step kid in his forties, not a young punk, verbally said he was invoking the 5th twice. Had nothing to do with booze, drugs, etc just a cop asking questions about things that had absolutely nothing to do with the matter at hand, overstepping his boundaries in a very aggressive manner, similar to Wambli's situation.

    First of all big fella, chill the hell out. Secondly, you can do with your comments regarding me as you wish.

    Third, I made that statement relating to the reaction by the jack booted thugs. I am no longer (for several years) surprised by how far the "police" will go.

    And that is what "that's supposed to mean".

    I suggest you figure out exactly what someone means before going on the warpath.
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,824 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    Well, there's no guarantees in this world. If you invoke the fifth and you are abused for doing it, if you're really a constitutionalist and give a damn about this country, you will take it to court. If you don't get satisfactory results, you need to appeal that court's decision. If that court doesn't give you the satisfaction you deserve, you need to go to a higher level, and so on and so forth until justice is served, because it is your constitutional right and also your duty as a citizen of this country to try and help insure the Constitution is upheld. One reason tyrants get away with their abuse is because people don't want to rock the boat.

    Trust me Mike, if that happened to me, I would be living off the money for a VERY long time. I would NEVER let something like that go.

    I do not like my boat rocked, but will rock others when they need rocking.
  • temmitemmi Member Posts: 230 Member
    Yes, but invoking the 5th can also be used as an omission to guilt....

    no this is not true

    BTW

    You get a lawyer and let him talk for you

    T
  • Vic's ViewpointVic's Viewpoint Senior Member Posts: 1,207 Senior Member
    What Horselips said, and then some.
    Member formerly known as "vlafrank."
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    Michakav wrote: »
    Trust me Mike, if that happened to me, I would be living off the money for a VERY long time. I would NEVER let something like that go.

    I do not like my boat rocked, but will rock others when they need rocking.

    Amen Michakav! More people need to have your mind set.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • avmechavmech Senior Member Posts: 856 Senior Member
    Michakav wrote: »
    First of all big fella, chill the hell out. Secondly, you can do with your comments regarding me as you wish.

    Third, I made that statement relating to the reaction by the jack booted thugs. I am no longer (for several years) surprised by how far the "police" will go.

    And that is what "that's supposed to mean".

    I suggest you figure out exactly what someone means before going on the warpath.
    On the other side of the chill coin, maybe defining the statement would have been better. That said Michakev, I am OK with your statement now that you have explained it, and retract mine. Apologies.
    NRA Benefactor Member
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,824 Senior Member
    avmech wrote: »
    On the other side of the chill coin, maybe defining the statement would have been better. That said Michakev, I am OK with your statement now that you have explained it, and retract mine. Apologies.

    It's all good buddy. Such a short statement could have been taken either way....:beer:
  • 41magnut41magnut Senior Member Posts: 1,216 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    One reason tyrants get away with their abuse is because people don't want to rock the boat.

    Most people don't have don't have deep enough pockets unless their cause is picked up by a supporting organization such as (as much as it pains me to say this) ACLU, NRA, or others.
    "The .30-06 is never a mistake." Townsend Whelen :iwo:
  • avmechavmech Senior Member Posts: 856 Senior Member
    Michakav wrote: »
    It's all good buddy. Such a short statement could have been taken either way....:beer:

    :beer:
    NRA Benefactor Member
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