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BAMAAK wrote: »
We can thank Bush for the Patriot Act but we can thank obama (and Congress who extended it) for this level of abuse. I will vote for anyone who promises to repeal it and abolish the dept of "Homeland (in)Security" which has become Barry's version of the Nazi SS.
twa wrote: »
The patriot act has probably saved more lives than any other law passed in recent years. If you have nothing to hide you shouldn't have a problem with it. Not to change subjects here, but the above statement strikes a nerve with me.
Buffco wrote: »
Your statement about nothing to hide strikes a nerve with probably most of us.
You have any evidence on how many lives have been saved by the Act? I've got tons of information regarding what we've given up, I just want to compare notes with you to see if its been worth it.
Teach wrote: »
Typical non-answer from one of the Obummer apologists who stirs the pot around here. Don't feed the troll!
twa wrote: »
I didn't realize speaking your opinion was being a troll, but then again for not agreeing with one of the most respected members of this forum, I can understand your logic, sorry to dissapoint teach.
And now you have hurt my feelings calling names, and "Obummer Apologist", wow that's pretty good, but your are totally off base there.
There are plenty of examples of how the act has saved lives in this country.
Here is one of many:http://www.newsmax.com/ErnestIstook/patriot-act-fbi-terror/2009/12/14/id/342540
If giving up some privacy stops one terrorist in this country, than so I am good with that. They can listen to me talk to my buddies about fishing, or talk to my wife about what we are going to have for dinner tonight all they want. Might just save someone you or I know, and could save a lot of people and their families a lot of pain and suffering someday.
JasonMPD wrote: »
Y'all are making this to complicated. Either choose to speak to the police or don't. None of this "well if they..." Either do; or don't.
As a witness why not speak with police? Not doing so--if you are an impartial witness--is a civic tragedy.
horselips wrote: »
"Civic Tragedy" my behind. Welcome to the Age of Partisanship. My governments, both Federal and Local left me a long time ago. I no longer feel any "civic" obligation to these authorities, or, (aside from my family, my dog and my trusted friends) to the great body of my fellow citizens. They'll just have to do without me. As for myself, until I feel I've received full value for every dollar I have EVER been taxed for the 45 years I've paid them, I will take everything I can get.
JasonMPD wrote: »
I was referring to a civic duty to your fellow citizen, the victim, not a civic duty towards the government investigating body.
JasonMPD wrote: »
For just a moment I want to apply the philosophy of this topic to gun owners as a whole:"Most gun owners are criminalsor will become a criminal with minimal enticement."
Less than one half of one percent of cops truly misfit their badge. You have NOT seen or been the victim of true police corruption--I guarantee it. This topic blindly labels law enforcement as a whole (intentionally or not) as a troop of freedom-hating coppers on the take. So in the interest of fairness, I should label gun owners by the majority as irresponsible malefactors.
This blind labeling and careless tall-taling of police corruption belongs on the sensational news media right where you got it in the first place. So again in all fairness someone should begin a thread, "Don't trust gun owners. " Otherwise it's just another double standard.
bisley wrote: »
You seem to be determined to take offense, so I think I'll just back out of this conversation.
samzhere wrote: »
Jason, Big, and bis, excellent commentary...
The idea that "lately" we are seeing more police corruption is probably true, because previously, nobody was seeing it occur. Many years ago it was routine cop-work to beat someone who was arrested, intimidate witnesses, and shove around citizens, particularly minorities and those without a public voice. Graft and corruption and favoritism was rampant in most any police department.
The city where I grew up, for example, Kansas City, had the police totally in the pocket of the Pendergast machine. Corruption was so rampant that eventually the state assumed control of the KC police and passed laws in which the police chief was appointed by the governor, totally bypassing local city officials. This was the key that broke the back of the machine, as new police policies took effect and the entrenched crooks were sent to prison. Before that, corruption and payoffs were an everyday occurrence in KC.
I actually think that police are BETTER than they've ever been, more honest, less corrupt, more responsive to the citizen.
We've got a recent case here in Houston, several cops being fired, some going to prison for assault, etc, because a surveillance camera caught them beating and kicking a prone, unresisting punk thug whom they'd just grabbed. Yeah, they were frustrated and angry. This thug had just come from threatening and shoving around a poor old lady in her home, which he'd invaded. He's now in prison on a new invasion and robbery sentence. And the cops let their frustration get the better of them and some of them are clearly getting their shots in on this punk's prone carcass. Wrong? Yeah, sorry, but yeah.
However, some people get all bent out of shape over this (Zimmerman case?) and cannot or choose not to accept that the vast majority of cops are fine.
And as Jason points out, if you substitute "gun owners" for "cops" and post statements that "gun owners are irresponsible and shoot innocent people" because, yes, it does sometimes happen, is exactly right. You cannot vilify the vast bulk of gun owners because of a few gun nuts, nor can the same be done about cops.
Some folks here, I swear, seem to be hear the black helicopters (now it's drones) hovering over their homes and are seeing Obama under the bed. Guys, it's just the news copter and some dust bunnies. Yes, there are excesses in government. Yes there are creeps in government (and in the cops) who want to run (and ruin) your life. But neither is proof that there is some huge, glistening, mammoth government conspiracy bulging in Area 51.
Years ago, near my parents' house, was this guy who worked as a CPA in a normal, mind-numbing job, but his major hobby was UFOs. He was a total believer, believed in ALL of it, aliens and Roswell and the government involved and coverups and the whole big banana. And he'd walk along the street (I swear this is true, Dad and I saw him all the time), he'd walk along, and then he'd stop every 25 feet or so, and look around carefully to see if there were any UFOs tracking him, then he'd scurry along to catch up, then he'd stop again and look...
Please, guys, take off the tinfoil hat and put on a good ol' NRA cap and use some common sense here. Don't be gazing around for UFOs or any other similar mammoth secrets.
Wambli Ska wrote: »
Now track that joint all the way back to the cartels in Mexico that produced and smuggled the pot into the country and your though process should change. If I see anyone smoking a joint or doing any illegal drugs there is a call to 911 happening. The idiots are helping support a system that is one of the biggest cancers in this country. Either fight for it to be legalized or don't do it. Period...
if I see someone walking around with a handgun in their hands you bet you hinny I'm calling 911. Mine is where it's legally supposed to be, concealed. Unless your state has open carry there is no reason to put yourself in a situation where there is a handgun in your hand for no good reason. If there is a good reason I'm sure the LEO will understand it as long as the gun is legit and being used in a lawful manner.
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