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Don't talk to the police

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  • twatwa Senior Member Posts: 2,238 Senior Member
    BAMAAK wrote: »
    We can thank Bush for the Patriot Act but we can thank obama (and Congress who extended it) for this level of abuse. I will vote for anyone who promises to repeal it and abolish the dept of "Homeland (in)Security" which has become Barry's version of the Nazi SS.

    The patriot act has probably saved more lives than any other law passed in recent years. If you have nothing to hide you shouldn't have a problem with it. Not to change subjects here, but the above statement strikes a nerve with me.
  • avmechavmech Senior Member Posts: 856 Senior Member
    As does the "if you have nothing to hide" statement to me. I have nothing to hide but value my and other people's privacy, freedom, and rights above all else, of which we are losing more and more of them. We escaped the lifestyle where there are none of those, from an island 90 miles off of Key West, even before it got really bad. I have a real problem with the "instill fear in people" mentality.
    NRA Benefactor Member
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Yep, us ordinary citizens need to get used to the routine- - - -bend over grab ankles, and wait patiently for what the government is going to give us. "It's for your own good"! Just pray they use a little Vaseline! Not in my lifetime!
    Jerry
  • twatwa Senior Member Posts: 2,238 Senior Member
    Yeah the black helicoptors are probably roaming your house right now. I sleep a lot easier knowing someone is keeping a watchful eye and kudos to all that serve to stop those that want to do harm to this great country.

    Just so we are clear what I am talking about here - read the definition.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 6,244 Senior Member
    twa wrote: »
    The patriot act has probably saved more lives than any other law passed in recent years. If you have nothing to hide you shouldn't have a problem with it. Not to change subjects here, but the above statement strikes a nerve with me.

    Your statement about nothing to hide strikes a nerve with probably most of us.

    You have any evidence on how many lives have been saved by the Act? I've got tons of information regarding what we've given up, I just want to compare notes with you to see if its been worth it.
  • twatwa Senior Member Posts: 2,238 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    Your statement about nothing to hide strikes a nerve with probably most of us.

    You have any evidence on how many lives have been saved by the Act? I've got tons of information regarding what we've given up, I just want to compare notes with you to see if its been worth it.

    Thats what the internet is for, search "how the patriot act has saved lives" - you will have reading material for as long as you like. (and remember, anything you read on the internet is true, just ask my wife, she if a french model I met on the internet) I will still stand by my statement, being a law abiding citizen of this country, I have nothing to hide and if the government wants to waste their time tapping my phones lines or checking my financial statement, or flying their black helicoptors around my house, they can knock their selves out.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Typical non-answer from one of the Obummer apologists who stirs the pot around here. Don't feed the troll!
    Jerry
  • twatwa Senior Member Posts: 2,238 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    Typical non-answer from one of the Obummer apologists who stirs the pot around here. Don't feed the troll!
    Jerry

    I didn't realize speaking your opinion was being a troll, but then again for not agreeing with one of the most respected members of this forum, I can understand your logic, sorry to dissapoint teach.
    And now you have hurt my feelings calling names, and "Obummer Apologist", wow that's pretty good, but your are totally off base there.

    There are plenty of examples of how the act has saved lives in this country.

    Here is one of many:
    http://www.newsmax.com/ErnestIstook/patriot-act-fbi-terror/2009/12/14/id/342540

    If giving up some privacy stops one terrorist in this country, than so I am good with that. They can listen to me talk to my buddies about fishing, or talk to my wife about what we are going to have for dinner tonight all they want. Might just save someone you or I know, and could save a lot of people and their families a lot of pain and suffering someday.
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    twa wrote: »
    I didn't realize speaking your opinion was being a troll, but then again for not agreeing with one of the most respected members of this forum, I can understand your logic, sorry to dissapoint teach.
    And now you have hurt my feelings calling names, and "Obummer Apologist", wow that's pretty good, but your are totally off base there.

    There are plenty of examples of how the act has saved lives in this country.

    Here is one of many:
    http://www.newsmax.com/ErnestIstook/patriot-act-fbi-terror/2009/12/14/id/342540

    If giving up some privacy stops one terrorist in this country, than so I am good with that. They can listen to me talk to my buddies about fishing, or talk to my wife about what we are going to have for dinner tonight all they want. Might just save someone you or I know, and could save a lot of people and their families a lot of pain and suffering someday.

    It seems to me you're making decisions based on feelings, (in this case fear), which is fine, so mail your phone bill, email address book, etc. to the Feds. But please leave me out of it. If you would choose safety over liberty, then you will have neither. A free society is not a utopia, nor is it a guarantee of lack of nutjob terrorism.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • twatwa Senior Member Posts: 2,238 Senior Member
    Where this is heading, it probably should be moved to the political section. (this is one reason I don't ever post there)
    I am sure the feds already have more information than you and I know, long before the patriot act ever came about. And I promise you, "I ain't scared"
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,484 Senior Member
    twa wrote: »
    The patriot act has probably saved more lives than any other law passed in recent years. If you have nothing to hide you shouldn't have a problem with it. Not to change subjects here, but the above statement strikes a nerve with me.

    I doubt the Patriot act has saved that many lives but that is not the point. It is beyond the point of abuse, it was never meant to spy on everyday Americans and if you think they aren't doing a whole lot more then Snowden has leaked out, I think you are being naive. If you have nothing to hide, keep your curtains open, send me your tax returns, your grades from 1st grade on, your CC #s and they keys to your car. I don't have anything to hide but I still want my privacy. A lot of people died in the last 237+ yrs protecting that right to privacy.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • twatwa Senior Member Posts: 2,238 Senior Member
    The same can be said for those that have died defending this country from terrorism. Your right, it was never meant to spy on every day Americans, and that is exactly why I do not have one inkling to think its a bad thing and is be used against honest citizens of this country. It's whole purpose is to catch the bad guys, just a tool in the fight against terrorism. I would assume you are all against holding persons at Guantanamo Bay also? This was a major part of the Patriot Act.

    Now that I think about it, I guess I really am not that private of a person. My curtains are open and I am sitting in my underwear typing on the computer, I am sure my neighbors love me. :yikes:
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,561 Senior Member
    I see there being a bit of a difference between a business and a government. One I can allow into my house through voluntary transactions. It's a bit different than the other saying, "we can and we will do this."
    Overkill is underrated.
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,557 Senior Member
    Y'all are making this to complicated. Either choose to speak to the police or don't. None of this "well if they..." Either do; or don't.

    As a witness why not speak with police? Not doing so--if you are an impartial witness--is a civic tragedy.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    Y'all are making this to complicated. Either choose to speak to the police or don't. None of this "well if they..." Either do; or don't.

    As a witness why not speak with police? Not doing so--if you are an impartial witness--is a civic tragedy.

    "Civic Tragedy" my behind. Welcome to the Age of Partisanship. My governments, both Federal and Local left me a long time ago. I no longer feel any "civic" obligation to these authorities, or, (aside from my family, my dog and my trusted friends) to the great body of my fellow citizens. They'll just have to do without me. As for myself, until I feel I've received full value for every dollar I have EVER been taxed for the 45 years I've paid them, I will take everything I can get.
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,557 Senior Member
    horselips wrote: »
    "Civic Tragedy" my behind. Welcome to the Age of Partisanship. My governments, both Federal and Local left me a long time ago. I no longer feel any "civic" obligation to these authorities, or, (aside from my family, my dog and my trusted friends) to the great body of my fellow citizens. They'll just have to do without me. As for myself, until I feel I've received full value for every dollar I have EVER been taxed for the 45 years I've paid them, I will take everything I can get.

    I was referring to a civic duty to your fellow citizen, the victim, not a civic duty towards the government investigating body.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    I was referring to a civic duty to your fellow citizen, the victim, not a civic duty towards the government investigating body.

    The problem with modern "crime" is there are few actual victims; or the "crime" is unconstitutional.

    If I saw a man smoking a joint on his front lawn, and the cops were called by a third party, I wouldn't speak with the police. I won't lie, but I won't give them anything. No victim = No crime.

    If the above example was a man with a gun; and the cops ask me to tell them if I saw the gun in question, I would refuse. I absolutely believe "shall not be infringed". If the man was not pointing at another person or property, it does not concern any LEO.
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    I was referring to a civic duty to your fellow citizen, the victim, not a civic duty towards the government investigating body.

    That's what I thought you meant. I think I have civic obligations in regards to being a good citizen. I haven't missed a vote since 1980. I skipped school on my 18th birthday in 1979 to register to vote and for the draft. I do the best I can to educate myself on issues and candidates.If I witnessed a crime I would most certainly tell cops what I saw. And I've done this a few times. I try to be a good neighbor and stay out of others way. I contribute to charity. And generally use the least amount of public services I can.
    These things and more are my definition of civic duty.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    Regarding Cali's comments about someone poking smot, (ha! take that nSeh), then I too wouldn't say shart if i had a mouthfull. A methlab is a completely different story. That's a hazmat issue. That and the crimes addicts commit to feed their habits affect us all.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    twa wrote: »
    The patriot act has probably saved more lives than any other law passed in recent years. If you have nothing to hide you shouldn't have a problem with it. Not to change subjects here, but the above statement strikes a nerve with me.

    I'm fairly certain that there have been conspiracies halted by the patriot act, so I do agree with twa on that aspect. However the concept that if you've got nothing to hide.. etc, I take issue with. We have a right to certain privacy regardless of how keen it would be that the terrorist wannabees are all rounded up.

    I think what's missing here is a distinction between the concept and theoretical purpose of a law, and its misuse, either via sloppiness or intent. The patriot act is in all likelihood a good thing, as it's written. What is the problem is its excessive use by an overzealous or politically biased government.

    If you've got no laws related to surveillance of terrorists that take into account modern technology, then you're leaving the door open for future 9/11 disasters. There has to be SOME sort of government overview into potential terrorist activity.

    However, there also have to be safeguards and oversight from congress to prevent misuse of these laws.

    In our country and far before this, there is always a balance between personal liberty and group structure. "The Governmental Process" by David B. Truman is a hallmark book on this balance. And the pendulum swings each way, depending on the energy of the times. Right after 9/11 we had an excess of government intervention and also some possibly questionable military actions overseas. During that time we granted more power to the feds than we should have, and now we're feeling the pinch. This doesn't make the patriot act wrong, it just brings into question the overenthusiastic application of it, whether done for personal power or misplaced patriotic energy.

    And gang, let's not vilify the person nor kill the messenger (use rude language about the person who posted). Let's stick to discussing the subject of the postings only, okay?
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    The days of an ordinary citizen trusting the government to act responsibly and in the interest of the entire public are gone, for all practical purposes. Leadership descends from the top, and we have had none for several years, now. That trust comes from seeing that our elected leaders are responsible and fair-minded - we can't even elect a majority of adults, much less statesmen, who are dedicated to protecting individual freedoms.

    I know that there are still a lot of very good cops out there that are struggling mightily against top-heavy bureaucracies, incompetent superiors, and over-burdening rules of engagement that are often able to thwart their best efforts to do the job they took an oath to do. But, civilians have a tough time distinguishing between the dedicated cops and the ticket-punchers, and have to protect themselves against the corruption and incompetence that they see and read about every day. It's very hard to figure out whether a cop is really 'on their side' or is simply playing them along so they will inadvertently incriminate themselves. LEOs have the right and the ability to mislead a suspect, and it is a necessary tool to solving some cases, but it should be used wisely, or not at all. An innocent citizen has to protect himself from incrimination on some side issue that he probably wasn't even aware was a crime, when being a witness, because he doesn't know if he can really trust the person who is questioning him.

    Also, we see every day that there are very powerful forces out there that can descend upon any case they choose, and they can corrupt any honest investigation of facts, destroy the career of any honest investigator who won't play ball, and trample any citizen that they set their sights on.
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,557 Senior Member
    For just a moment I want to apply the philosophy of this topic to gun owners as a whole:

    "Most gun owners are criminalsor will become a criminal with minimal enticement."

    Less than one half of one percent of cops truly misfit their badge. You have NOT seen or been the victim of true police corruption--I guarantee it. This topic blindly labels law enforcement as a whole (intentionally or not) as a troop of freedom-hating coppers on the take. So in the interest of fairness, I should label gun owners by the majority as irresponsible malefactors.

    This blind labeling and careless tall-taling of police corruption belongs on the sensational news media right where you got it in the first place. So again in all fairness someone should begin a thread, "Don't trust gun owners. " Otherwise it's just another double standard.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    For just a moment I want to apply the philosophy of this topic to gun owners as a whole:

    "Most gun owners are criminalsor will become a criminal with minimal enticement."

    Less than one half of one percent of cops truly misfit their badge. You have NOT seen or been the victim of true police corruption--I guarantee it. This topic blindly labels law enforcement as a whole (intentionally or not) as a troop of freedom-hating coppers on the take. So in the interest of fairness, I should label gun owners by the majority as irresponsible malefactors.

    This blind labeling and careless tall-taling of police corruption belongs on the sensational news media right where you got it in the first place. So again in all fairness someone should begin a thread, "Don't trust gun owners. " Otherwise it's just another double standard.


    Jason, I support and respect 99% of our police. However, lately there seems to be an inordinate amount of incidents that put them in a bad light. From executing search warrants (bad behavior/wrong addresses) shootings that need not have been and behavior when they are caught on camera. Incompetent leadership/lack of proper training?

    Not just a few isolated incidents either. I don't know all the reasons for this. Maybe because police powers have been expanded by the Patriot Act (some agencies), technologies available or the societal mores of a new generation of LEOs that are much different than when I grew up.

    I do appreciate what you/LEOs do daily to help keep us all safe, enforcement of the laws, putting yourselves in harms way by the nature of your jobs and I don't place you in the "Dumb Cop" category as I do those involved in the incidents posted on here.

    I don't think we are "Cop Bashing", but merely pointing out some bizarre behavior by police we see. In all fairness, maybe we should also make some posts about cops just doing their job professionally, but that stuff usually isn't a news sensation.

    This IS a tough crowd to please, so to speak. Hang around, I'm glad you are on-board.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    I get your point, Jason, but since nobody is going to report on all the good things that the police (or anybody else for that matter) do, what information are we going to go by? Most of us come by our misconceptions honestly, but you are correct to say that those misconceptions are based on anecdotal evidence, police shows on TV, and a lot of biased reporting, but I just don't know how a 'civilian' can ever have all the facts. Even if he did, and told everyone he met, only a tiny percent of the population would be influenced.

    I think it is just a fact that the good guys in the world are going to be forever frustrated. I just hope there are always enough decent people who will continue to do the job, knowing that they will be misunderstood, more often than not.
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,557 Senior Member
    And here I thought this forum was against unfair, bias reporting. The sensational liberal news media labels we gonna owners as an irresponsible majority who should have their firearms removed. Likewise the sensational liberal news media would label all cops as a majority being irresponsible and deserving of the badges removed. The excuse that "citizens by and large do not get fair and accurate reporting so what else are they supposed to think" is a complete fallacy to the logic on this form that a certain majority is being unjustly mislabeled (gun owners) and it isn't fair or correct.

    And before anyone states this is an apples to oranges comparison, a corrupt police officer or any irresponsible gun owner can both remove life and liberty just the same.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    You seem to be determined to take offense, so I think I'll just back out of this conversation.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Jason, Big, and bis, excellent commentary...

    The idea that "lately" we are seeing more police corruption is probably true, because previously, nobody was seeing it occur. Many years ago it was routine cop-work to beat someone who was arrested, intimidate witnesses, and shove around citizens, particularly minorities and those without a public voice. Graft and corruption and favoritism was rampant in most any police department.

    The city where I grew up, for example, Kansas City, had the police totally in the pocket of the Pendergast machine. Corruption was so rampant that eventually the state assumed control of the KC police and passed laws in which the police chief was appointed by the governor, totally bypassing local city officials. This was the key that broke the back of the machine, as new police policies took effect and the entrenched crooks were sent to prison. Before that, corruption and payoffs were an everyday occurrence in KC.

    I actually think that police are BETTER than they've ever been, more honest, less corrupt, more responsive to the citizen.

    We've got a recent case here in Houston, several cops being fired, some going to prison for assault, etc, because a surveillance camera caught them beating and kicking a prone, unresisting punk thug whom they'd just grabbed. Yeah, they were frustrated and angry. This thug had just come from threatening and shoving around a poor old lady in her home, which he'd invaded. He's now in prison on a new invasion and robbery sentence. And the cops let their frustration get the better of them and some of them are clearly getting their shots in on this punk's prone carcass. Wrong? Yeah, sorry, but yeah.

    However, some people get all bent out of shape over this (Zimmerman case?) and cannot or choose not to accept that the vast majority of cops are fine.

    And as Jason points out, if you substitute "gun owners" for "cops" and post statements that "gun owners are irresponsible and shoot innocent people" because, yes, it does sometimes happen, is exactly right. You cannot vilify the vast bulk of gun owners because of a few gun nuts, nor can the same be done about cops.

    Some folks here, I swear, seem to be hear the black helicopters (now it's drones) hovering over their homes and are seeing Obama under the bed. Guys, it's just the news copter and some dust bunnies. Yes, there are excesses in government. Yes there are creeps in government (and in the cops) who want to run (and ruin) your life. But neither is proof that there is some huge, glistening, mammoth government conspiracy bulging in Area 51.

    Years ago, near my parents' house, was this guy who worked as a CPA in a normal, mind-numbing job, but his major hobby was UFOs. He was a total believer, believed in ALL of it, aliens and Roswell and the government involved and coverups and the whole big banana. And he'd walk along the street (I swear this is true, Dad and I saw him all the time), he'd walk along, and then he'd stop every 25 feet or so, and look around carefully to see if there were any UFOs tracking him, then he'd scurry along to catch up, then he'd stop again and look...

    Please, guys, take off the tinfoil hat and put on a good ol' NRA cap and use some common sense here. Don't be gazing around for UFOs or any other similar mammoth secrets.
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,557 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    You seem to be determined to take offense, so I think I'll just back out of this conversation.

    I am not taking offense. I am having a conversation. Moreover, I am pointing out the error in the logic of the previous posts. I'd like to read what you have to say.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,557 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    Jason, Big, and bis, excellent commentary...

    The idea that "lately" we are seeing more police corruption is probably true, because previously, nobody was seeing it occur. Many years ago it was routine cop-work to beat someone who was arrested, intimidate witnesses, and shove around citizens, particularly minorities and those without a public voice. Graft and corruption and favoritism was rampant in most any police department.

    The city where I grew up, for example, Kansas City, had the police totally in the pocket of the Pendergast machine. Corruption was so rampant that eventually the state assumed control of the KC police and passed laws in which the police chief was appointed by the governor, totally bypassing local city officials. This was the key that broke the back of the machine, as new police policies took effect and the entrenched crooks were sent to prison. Before that, corruption and payoffs were an everyday occurrence in KC.

    I actually think that police are BETTER than they've ever been, more honest, less corrupt, more responsive to the citizen.

    We've got a recent case here in Houston, several cops being fired, some going to prison for assault, etc, because a surveillance camera caught them beating and kicking a prone, unresisting punk thug whom they'd just grabbed. Yeah, they were frustrated and angry. This thug had just come from threatening and shoving around a poor old lady in her home, which he'd invaded. He's now in prison on a new invasion and robbery sentence. And the cops let their frustration get the better of them and some of them are clearly getting their shots in on this punk's prone carcass. Wrong? Yeah, sorry, but yeah.

    However, some people get all bent out of shape over this (Zimmerman case?) and cannot or choose not to accept that the vast majority of cops are fine.

    And as Jason points out, if you substitute "gun owners" for "cops" and post statements that "gun owners are irresponsible and shoot innocent people" because, yes, it does sometimes happen, is exactly right. You cannot vilify the vast bulk of gun owners because of a few gun nuts, nor can the same be done about cops.

    Some folks here, I swear, seem to be hear the black helicopters (now it's drones) hovering over their homes and are seeing Obama under the bed. Guys, it's just the news copter and some dust bunnies. Yes, there are excesses in government. Yes there are creeps in government (and in the cops) who want to run (and ruin) your life. But neither is proof that there is some huge, glistening, mammoth government conspiracy bulging in Area 51.

    Years ago, near my parents' house, was this guy who worked as a CPA in a normal, mind-numbing job, but his major hobby was UFOs. He was a total believer, believed in ALL of it, aliens and Roswell and the government involved and coverups and the whole big banana. And he'd walk along the street (I swear this is true, Dad and I saw him all the time), he'd walk along, and then he'd stop every 25 feet or so, and look around carefully to see if there were any UFOs tracking him, then he'd scurry along to catch up, then he'd stop again and look...

    Please, guys, take off the tinfoil hat and put on a good ol' NRA cap and use some common sense here. Don't be gazing around for UFOs or any other similar mammoth secrets.

    YES, police corruption exists--both at the individual officer level and at the department-wide level; and this is infinitely unfortunate. Kansas City, New Orleans are a couple of large ones and a semi-local po-dunk agency in Florida, the Oak Hill PD. Only about 8-10 officers, but they were all terminated on grounds of corruption, the department was dissolved and the local Sheriff's office now responds to calls for service there. They get theirs in the end and I am not saying they don't sometimes leave an irreparable wake in their path, but they get theirs.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,557 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Now track that joint all the way back to the cartels in Mexico that produced and smuggled the pot into the country and your though process should change. If I see anyone smoking a joint or doing any illegal drugs there is a call to 911 happening. The idiots are helping support a system that is one of the biggest cancers in this country. Either fight for it to be legalized or don't do it. Period...

    if I see someone walking around with a handgun in their hands you bet you hinny I'm calling 911. Mine is where it's legally supposed to be, concealed. Unless your state has open carry there is no reason to put yourself in a situation where there is a handgun in your hand for no good reason. If there is a good reason I'm sure the LEO will understand it as long as the gun is legit and being used in a lawful manner.


    Thank you for making that point about marijuana. MUCH of it is foreign import--and the vast majority of that is from Mexico. "Just a little weed" is equivalent to saying "they only spent $10 that went to a Mexican drug cartel that murders kidnapped and enslaved workers by the dozen when they can't walk anymore." A little pot is no big deal, huh? Harmless even? Hmm.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
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