16 grains of h110 with a standard primer in my blackhawk is good, same charge with a magnum primer means hammering cases out. My dad loaded those, he thought magnum round equals magnum primer.
16 grains of H110 is below minimum in most books. H110 can run scary pressures if the case is not full enough and that is probably causing your sticky case issues. H110 is not the powder to use for light loads. H110 works best in a full case at magnum loadings. To the OP, you're over complicating things. The .44mag is not as finicky as you seem to think and will usually be happy and accurate steaming along with a max load of H110.
16 grains of H110 is below minimum in most books. H110 can run scary pressures if the case is not full enough and that is probably causing your sticky case issues. H110 is not the powder to use for light loads. H110 works best in a full case at magnum loadings. To the OP, you're over complicating things. The .44mag is not as finicky as you seem to think and will usually be happy and accurate steaming along with a max load of H110.
16 grs h110 does work alright in 44 special cases topped with the 429421 bullet, but I still use the magnum pistol primers because the data called for it.
As for the 357,,, we'ld need a different thread to talk about loads for the weenie guns....
In the past I loaded many thousands of rounds of .44 mag and .45LC hot loaded for my Bisley. H110 worked okay but I eventually migrated to 2400. I've never even owned a case trimmer. XTPs are fine bullets but I preferred some 300 grain hard cast ones.
One thing I learned to do when sighting in a revolver was mark my chambers and mark a target on the bench. It can happen that you have a quirky chamber and end up chasing your tail with uncalled fliers. I had a Ruger SA .22LR with a coupla chambers like that and spent a fortune in ammo before I figured out the problem.
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Also, as far as working up loads in straight wall cases, I don't believe it's a good practice to pick a starting point and work up unitl you see whatever you're looking for. By the time you start to see signs of pressure in handgun rounds or straight wall cases in general, you've long ago past the safe pressure limit and you're probably getting ready to have a problem. With powders like H110, you generally won't have much room left in the case. But other powders, like AA 9, will easily allow an overcharge.
My $.02
Question:
If that's the case, how does one "push the envelope" on the .44 Mag without risking ones hand in the process?
"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
If that's the case, how does one "push the envelope" on the .44 Mag without risking ones hand in the process?
44's are really picky about pressure and you'll start getting hard extraction the moment you hit all the powder a particular gun wants.
I've only had one that would digest Elmer Keiths 2400 load and keep on smiling, the others all had enough a couple of grains before we got to Elmers load.
H110/296 is bulky enough that at the listed loads in most places there won't be any airspace between the powder and the bullet, and max loads will feel the crunch when seating the bullet.
They have backed off Elmer's classic load of a 250 grain Keith/Ideal hard cast SWC bullet pushed by 22.0 grains of 2400 powder.
I used to shoot similar loads from a Ruger Redhawk with 7 1/2" many years ago with 240 grain slugs. You are talking about a 1400-1500 FPS (estimated, no Chrony for me back in the mid 80s) range. These days the data lists and most folks settle for somewhere around 1200-1300 FPS.
I had "Magnum Mania" a bit back then, but I'm older and wiser these days! Some of my loads outta that Redhawk would involuntarily open my jaw when I touched one off, even with hand filling Pachmayrs, original Ruger grips were tiny and hard to get a good purchase on.
20 grains of 2400 and a 240 grain pill works for me , easier on me and my guns. Hornady 7th/8th editions shows a 240 grain jacketed bullet with a MAX of 2400 @ 21.2 grains, my older 3rd edition shows 22.4 grains as MAX.
I somehow remember Elmer's classic load as being hotter and using more than 22.0 grains of 2400? He was using a hard cast lead bullet (higher velocities than the same weight jacketed bullet) and the bullet was 10 grains heavier @ 250 grains.
At any rate, check and recheck your load data (as I know you will) and enjoy exploring the world of the .44 Remington Magnum cartridge.
It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
Well, while I'm not one to hot rod my rifles, I might have fun doing it with the .44 Mag. My Super Blackhawks should take it.
Either way, I'll try a get them as stout as I can. That seems the only reason for the .44 Mag anyway. It's not a distance round like my other Specialty Pistols. So, lets make it the short range Hand of God!!!
"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
Plenty, very seldom does a .44 Mag case split. I've been reloading some of the same cases for over 25 years!
It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
Ok. I'll probably get another 100 cases. Load 100 with 240gr XTPs for general use in all the guns. Then, 100 cases with the 300gr XTP for romp'm stomp'm loads in the 2 Super Blackhawks.
"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
There's a reason 454 Casull is available. To do what 44 Mag and 45 Colt can't. No need to force a round to do something that another cartridge can do better.
You'll notice when you trim brass after putting some bang in 'em, they take some pretty good cutting to get them back to length spec. The more you have to trim per firing, the shorter their lifespan will be. The harder you push, the shorter the lifespan. Likely with a mag case pushed like this, you'll separate at the point where the web meets the case wall when the case has had enough.
I've had several split at that point. Maybe that's not necessarily normal... Luckily no complete separations. But split horizontally around the web....They split at that point after being stretched and resized multiple times.
Replies
Me too. I've never had a problem setting off a case full of H110 with a standard primer.
16 grains of H110 is below minimum in most books. H110 can run scary pressures if the case is not full enough and that is probably causing your sticky case issues. H110 is not the powder to use for light loads. H110 works best in a full case at magnum loadings. To the OP, you're over complicating things. The .44mag is not as finicky as you seem to think and will usually be happy and accurate steaming along with a max load of H110.
Meh. They have their .223, .243 and soon to be .308 to shoot/hunt with.
As for the 357,,, we'ld need a different thread to talk about loads for the weenie guns....
One thing I learned to do when sighting in a revolver was mark my chambers and mark a target on the bench. It can happen that you have a quirky chamber and end up chasing your tail with uncalled fliers. I had a Ruger SA .22LR with a coupla chambers like that and spent a fortune in ammo before I figured out the problem.
Question:
If that's the case, how does one "push the envelope" on the .44 Mag without risking ones hand in the process?
Once you get past book max, that's pretty much what you're doing.
Unless you have some slipperyer bullets.
44's are really picky about pressure and you'll start getting hard extraction the moment you hit all the powder a particular gun wants.
I've only had one that would digest Elmer Keiths 2400 load and keep on smiling, the others all had enough a couple of grains before we got to Elmers load.
H110/296 is bulky enough that at the listed loads in most places there won't be any airspace between the powder and the bullet, and max loads will feel the crunch when seating the bullet.
I used to shoot similar loads from a Ruger Redhawk with 7 1/2" many years ago with 240 grain slugs. You are talking about a 1400-1500 FPS (estimated, no Chrony for me back in the mid 80s) range. These days the data lists and most folks settle for somewhere around 1200-1300 FPS.
I had "Magnum Mania" a bit back then, but I'm older and wiser these days! Some of my loads outta that Redhawk would involuntarily open my jaw when I touched one off, even with hand filling Pachmayrs, original Ruger grips were tiny and hard to get a good purchase on.
20 grains of 2400 and a 240 grain pill works for me , easier on me and my guns. Hornady 7th/8th editions shows a 240 grain jacketed bullet with a MAX of 2400 @ 21.2 grains, my older 3rd edition shows 22.4 grains as MAX.
I somehow remember Elmer's classic load as being hotter and using more than 22.0 grains of 2400? He was using a hard cast lead bullet (higher velocities than the same weight jacketed bullet) and the bullet was 10 grains heavier @ 250 grains.
At any rate, check and recheck your load data (as I know you will) and enjoy exploring the world of the .44 Remington Magnum cartridge.
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
Either way, I'll try a get them as stout as I can. That seems the only reason for the .44 Mag anyway. It's not a distance round like my other Specialty Pistols. So, lets make it the short range Hand of God!!!
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
You'll notice when you trim brass after putting some bang in 'em, they take some pretty good cutting to get them back to length spec. The more you have to trim per firing, the shorter their lifespan will be. The harder you push, the shorter the lifespan. Likely with a mag case pushed like this, you'll separate at the point where the web meets the case wall when the case has had enough.
Let me know what the secret is. I'm tired of trimming brass....Especially magnum stuff, just about every time it's loaded....
Though, I'd still like to make a barrel for my MOA Maximum in .375 Ruger. That would be fun.
454 shooters always get bent out of shape when you point out the ballistics of that thing are the equal of 45-70 trapdoor loads.:yikes:
I've had several split at that point. Maybe that's not necessarily normal... Luckily no complete separations. But split horizontally around the web....They split at that point after being stretched and resized multiple times.
BAM!!!
We're cooking now!