Well crap! I may have to seat the bullets deeper. I just loaded 75 rounds and went to open another box of Hornady XTP bullets.
Seem from my current bullets on the left to the newer bullets on the right........Hornady shortened the crimp groove!!!! Bastiges!!!!!
My current crimp is in the bottom half of the crimp groove. Hornady has seen fit to take that bottom half away on their newer bullets. As you can see.
So, my options are to leave the current batch as is and seat the next batch deeper with the new crimp groove or...........stick all of my existing bullets back in the seater and seat them deeper as well.
If I seat the existing batch deeper.......will I need to re-crimp them?
"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
After seating them a tad deeper, I would run them through the crimping station again and have done that in the past.
Also, do the twist/push test. Twist the bullet in a random sample in your fingers and then push the cartridge against a hard surface like your bench and make sure it doesn't move or spin around.
I've occasionally had "Spinners" before with some brass that is the same length, same resize and case mouth bell, but no matter how much crimp I put on them, no dice. I usually put them aside and load and shoot them one at a time. Usually it's .357, but sometimes .44 Mags and always with jacketed bullets. You can mostly "Feel" the problem as you reload (from how easy they seat and when you crimp them because of little resistance) them and know they are gonna be loose.
It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
Crush the case and/or shave copper from the outside of the bullet. Both of which stand a good chance of making the loads go from good to not so good.....
I'd just go with them as they are. I doubt the change in cannelure width and the resulting change in seating depth will make that much of a difference in accuracy. Not enough that one could attribute the difference to that change alone.
Stuff like that is why I do a lot of tinkering with my loads, like JB has been talking about. You never know when something is going to force you to make a change. Might as well have documented load data to refer to when something does change. It's a never ending process for me.
1. Don't back talk jbohio on load developement. 2.Big Chief was right, you can seat crimped bullets deeper and re-crimp them. 3. CPJ is a Cheeto Muncher.
Well.........the third one I already knew. I just ................wanted to reiterate the fact. Sorry.
Anyway, I got up this morning, read Big Chief's reply as to seating deeper. Read CPJ's reply as to seating deeper. Said, piss on CPJ and seated some bullets deeper to 1.600" OAL. No crushed cases or shaved copper that I could tell. Re-crimped the cases and went to the range to test fire.
Damn!
Velocity ramained about the same at 1,416 fps
So, I guess at this point I can either leave the existing rounds as is and just seat the new bullets deeper (since there really isn't a difference in POI between the two seating depths). Or, seat the existing loads deeper as well as the new bullets.
What say all?
"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
Heck, just leave them as is and go Shootin again.........since all else seems to be equal on the range. Use the time you would spend to re-do them to load the new slugs up :guns:
BTW, lead/hard cast bullets will "Shave" a lot easier than jacketed and that is usually determined by how much you bell the case mouth...early on in the process as you are seating bullets.
It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
My experience has been with cast lead. It's been a bad experience when trying to seat them deeper. Never tried to seat copper deeper. Of course, I typically get it right on the first go round.
Oh, and when this cheeto muncher is sitting in the kitchen buck nekkid looking over his 600 yard range and watching the deer munch on the Cheetos that fell out of my pocket on the way back from changing targets, you can firmly, and squarely, kiss his white backside. :smooch:
Touche!
It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
Oh, and when this cheeto muncher is sitting in the kitchen buck nekkid looking over his 600 yard range and watching the deer munch on the Cheetos that fell out of my pocket on the way back from changing targets, you can firmly, and squarely, kiss his white backside. :smooch:
If and when that day happens......I'll gladly pucker up.
"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
I've tried doing that before and it created a shaved copper ring around the case mouth and killed accuracy. It seems to have worked out perfectly for you. Nice shooting.... :up:
I've tried doing that before and it created a shaved copper ring around the case mouth and killed accuracy. It seems to have worked out perfectly for you. Nice shooting.... :up:
I ended up doing what Big Chief mentioned. I'm just leaving the existing rounds as they are. I just loaded the new batch of bullets and seated them to 1.600" OAL because of the shorter crimp ring. As long as the POI of the two different seating depths are the same, I don't care.
"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
I ended up doing what Big Chief mentioned. I'm just leaving the existing rounds as they are. I just loaded the new batch of bullets and seated them to 1.600" OAL because of the shorter crimp ring. As long as the POI of the two different seating depths are the same, I don't care.
OK. I was under the impression you seated your existing rounds deeper and recrimped them.
OK. I was under the impression you seated your existing rounds deeper and recrimped them.
Looks like you got a good load there, for sure.
Well, I did......kinda.
I took 6 of my existing loads and seated the bullets deeper to 1.600" and re-crimped them. Took them to the range and tested them.
With the results I posted above in the picture, I decided NOT to seat the REST of my existing loads to 1.600" OAL. I left them as they were seated at 1.610" OAL.
The NEW batch of bullets (with the shorter crimp ring), I seated to 1.600" OAL.
So yes, I changed 6 of them. Just not the rest.
"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
Replies
Yep. Don't come back till all the holes are touching!
I'm still not sure if I want to mess with what I have. I'm shooting 1/2" groups at 25 yards and matching/beating book velocity with .2gr less powder.
I'm kinda happy right now. Stop popping my bubble!!!!
;-)
I can quit now. The seed is planted.
Besides, load work is fun. Shooting is fun.
I'll jack around with deeper seating depth on the 300gr bullets.
I hate you.
187 is one of my handloads.
Besides, tomorrow..........I'll have another rifle to start load work for. Even have some loaded ammo to test in it already. So, I'm busy!!!!
;-)
Never mind. Your load is super spectacular.
Get busy with the other one. Pics. Need pics.
Seem from my current bullets on the left to the newer bullets on the right........Hornady shortened the crimp groove!!!! Bastiges!!!!!
My current crimp is in the bottom half of the crimp groove. Hornady has seen fit to take that bottom half away on their newer bullets. As you can see.
So, my options are to leave the current batch as is and seat the next batch deeper with the new crimp groove or...........stick all of my existing bullets back in the seater and seat them deeper as well.
If I seat the existing batch deeper.......will I need to re-crimp them?
Also, do the twist/push test. Twist the bullet in a random sample in your fingers and then push the cartridge against a hard surface like your bench and make sure it doesn't move or spin around.
I've occasionally had "Spinners" before with some brass that is the same length, same resize and case mouth bell, but no matter how much crimp I put on them, no dice. I usually put them aside and load and shoot them one at a time. Usually it's .357, but sometimes .44 Mags and always with jacketed bullets. You can mostly "Feel" the problem as you reload (from how easy they seat and when you crimp them because of little resistance) them and know they are gonna be loose.
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
I'd just go with them as they are. I doubt the change in cannelure width and the resulting change in seating depth will make that much of a difference in accuracy. Not enough that one could attribute the difference to that change alone.
Stuff like that is why I do a lot of tinkering with my loads, like JB has been talking about. You never know when something is going to force you to make a change. Might as well have documented load data to refer to when something does change. It's a never ending process for me.
1. Don't back talk jbohio on load developement.
2. Big Chief was right, you can seat crimped bullets deeper and re-crimp them.
3. CPJ is a Cheeto Muncher.
Well.........the third one I already knew. I just ................wanted to reiterate the fact. Sorry.
Anyway, I got up this morning, read Big Chief's reply as to seating deeper. Read CPJ's reply as to seating deeper. Said, piss on CPJ and seated some bullets deeper to 1.600" OAL. No crushed cases or shaved copper that I could tell. Re-crimped the cases and went to the range to test fire.
Damn!
Velocity ramained about the same at 1,416 fps
So, I guess at this point I can either leave the existing rounds as is and just seat the new bullets deeper (since there really isn't a difference in POI between the two seating depths). Or, seat the existing loads deeper as well as the new bullets.
What say all?
BTW, lead/hard cast bullets will "Shave" a lot easier than jacketed and that is usually determined by how much you bell the case mouth...early on in the process as you are seating bullets.
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
Touche!
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
I've tried doing that before and it created a shaved copper ring around the case mouth and killed accuracy. It seems to have worked out perfectly for you. Nice shooting.... :up:
I ended up doing what Big Chief mentioned. I'm just leaving the existing rounds as they are. I just loaded the new batch of bullets and seated them to 1.600" OAL because of the shorter crimp ring. As long as the POI of the two different seating depths are the same, I don't care.
OK. I was under the impression you seated your existing rounds deeper and recrimped them.
Looks like you got a good load there, for sure.
Well, I did......kinda.
I took 6 of my existing loads and seated the bullets deeper to 1.600" and re-crimped them. Took them to the range and tested them.
With the results I posted above in the picture, I decided NOT to seat the REST of my existing loads to 1.600" OAL. I left them as they were seated at 1.610" OAL.
The NEW batch of bullets (with the shorter crimp ring), I seated to 1.600" OAL.
So yes, I changed 6 of them. Just not the rest.
:jester: