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95 years ago the handguns used to kill the Ex-Tsar

JamesAPrattIIIJamesAPrattIII Posts: 156 Member
I am a few days off but 95 years ago at approx. 0230-0300 17 july 1918 ex-Tsar Nicholas II and family were murdered by the Checka (soviet secret police). Here is a list of the killers and the handguns they used:
Yakov Yurovsky 1911 and mauser C96
Grigory Nikulin Browning 1900 in 32 acp
Peter Ermakov Mauser C96 and 3 Nagants
Michael kurding 1911 and Browning 25 acp
Pavel Medvedev nagant
the other 4, Alexei Kabanov, Victor neterin, Stephen Vaganov, and jan Tsel'ms (or Soames) all we know is 3 had nagants and 1 had a S&W No3.


  • JamesAPrattIIIJamesAPrattIII Posts: 156 Member
    part 2 4 of the nagants were Model 1895s the other 3 were in caliber 9.4mm either model 1878/86 DA or 1883 SAs

    Some of the handgunsI understand are in the Central Museum of the Revolution in Moscow
    Yurovsky 1911 Comercial model C71905 and his Mauser C96
    Nikulin Browning 1900 # 387765
    Ermakov Mauser C96 167127 and his 8 inch long bayonet which is most like from a Winchester M-1895. This is what he used to stab all 5 of Nicholas II children and finish off their maid.

    Most recent book on this subject is "Last Days of the Romanovs" Helen Rappaport which is good except the author is somewhat firearms challenged.

    I hope this is of some interest to you all.
  • Big Al1Big Al1 Posts: 8,813 Senior Member
    Apparently, they were bad shots to have that much fire power on hand. But, most hand gun rounds were also pretty feeble back then, specially the Nagant.
  • Gene LGene L Posts: 12,817 Senior Member
    I heard the Czarina and daughters had diamonds sewn in their clothing, which deflected bullets.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • ThatMattGuyThatMattGuy Posts: 666 Senior Member
    I have read that whole story before. It is interesting and the wiki page is really in depth!
    The poster formerly known as '69MercCougar
  • JamesAPrattIIIJamesAPrattIII Posts: 156 Member
    The room in question was so dimly lit that the only thing the shooters could see of the 4 daughters were the white blouses they were wearing. All of the handguns used had sights that didn't really work too well in low light conditions. All the shooters except Yurosky had been drinking heavily. Most of the shooters may have had very little or no experience pistol shooting. Ermakov and Nikolin had some experience shooting people in the back of the head. The killers were lined up in 3 ranks of 3 with the men in back firing over the shoulders of the men in front. It appears they were not wearing any hearing protection. So after the first few rounds fired the room was so full of plaster dust, BP and other gunsmoke nobody could see anything to shoot at. It also didn't help that most of the shooters ignored the orders they received an shot or shot at Nicholas and not their assigned targets. Most the guards really didn't want to kill Nicholas daughters from what I understand. One hopes this is of help/interset
  • JamesAPrattIIIJamesAPrattIII Posts: 156 Member
    Gene L
    I am about 100% sure that no bullets were deflected by jewelry worn by Alexandra and her daughters. the reports of this were made up by Yurosky to cover up what a bloody mess (literally0 he made of their murders It should be pointed out that all the women in the room were wearing corsets and the metal corset parts that were recovered show no sign of bullet damage. Alexandra did have a bag of pearls that she was wearing around her waist but it appears she was only shot in the head by Ermakov. It is really doubtfull she was shot in the torso. end of part 1
  • JamesAPrattIIIJamesAPrattIII Posts: 156 Member
    Olga, Tatania and Anastasia all wore half slips with about 4 pounds of jewelry sewn into them under their corsets. It appears none of them were shot in the torso either. The corsets jewelry and the amulets all the children wore around their necks appear to have defected Ermakovs attempts to stab them to death with his M-1895 bayonet. Olga and tatania were both killed by head shots. Anastasia appartently fainted after being stabbed and shot later she woke up and started screaming and was bayoneted with a M-1891 rifle bayonet and shot again and killed all by ermakov according to most accounts. Her lower skull and jaw were destroyed most likely by gunfire and being hit by rifle butts after she died end of part 2
  • JamesAPrattIIIJamesAPrattIII Posts: 156 Member
    Alexei did have some jewelry hidden under his clothing as well. I don't think they defected any of the 32acp rounds fired into him by Nikulin. They may have given him some protection from Ermakov stabbing him . Then Yurovsky shot him in the head with a 1911. I would also like to point out that if hit by a bullet pearls would shatter and as for diamonds and other jewels if hit they would either shatter or be driven into the victims body. Final note Nicholas and maria didn't have any jewelry on them. I hope this is of some help or information.
  • centermass556centermass556 Posts: 3,618 Senior Member
    The bigger question...What would have Russia been like today if there had not been a coup....Communism and the AK-47 dictated a lot of the history of the 20th century
    "To have really lived, you must have almost died. To those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."
  • BigslugBigslug Posts: 9,860 Senior Member
    Not really a subject of any expertise for me, but I've always been a little dubious of Soviet era "news" in general, and this story in particular. So much of their stuff reeks of spin, and I smell a lot of of it here.

    1. Murdering a royal family, in the middle of a war that might not go your way, in a world run by monarchs, on a continent where many of the monarchs of other countries are related to the ones you just killed. . .this is NOT something you want your name attached to EVER. This is a case of applying the three "S" rule if ever there was one. The notion of precisely documenting the people involved - let alone their weapon's serial numbers - seems laughable. I sense a few invented "Heroes of the Revolution".

    2. Weapons used (according to the story) were American, German, and Belgian, or of Belgian design and Russian manufacture. This is either a way of saying the Czars were so screwed up that there were no reliable domestic weapons before the advent of socialism; or that snuffing the Romanovs was a multinational effort.

    3. Jewelry deflecting bullets: Metaphor for "The Romanovs had appropriated so much of the proletariat's wealth that it formed a physical shield that could only be blasted aside with a great effort by the people's army."

    We know the Romanovs were killed in a basement and buried in the woods. I doubt we can claim to really "know" much more than that.

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • JamesAPrattIIIJamesAPrattIII Posts: 156 Member
    What would Russia be like today with no Communism. First of all there would be a lot more people in the world because you wouldn't have lenin and Stalin killing tens of millions of their own people. Possiblely there would have been no Hitler ect, No WW II, no cold war.

    As for Yurosky he was made a minor hero of the revolution for killing the tsar and his family. I think a book was published about his life.

    As for Ermakov in the 1920s and 30s he went around the USSR giving lectures to 10 to 15 year old boys and girls on how "heroic" he was in killing the ex Tsar and his family. Note this man pre-WW I was a 4 time convicted felon and was somewhat of a drunken pyscopath.

    As for the handguns tsarist Russia apparently had very little in the way of gun control and not much in the way of law enforcement either. Pre WW I more than a few Mauser C96 and Brownings were imported or smuggled in the country. The book "Young Stalin" has the criminals and revolutionaries using quite a few Mausers and Brownings.
  • JamesAPrattIIIJamesAPrattIII Posts: 156 Member
    I have heard that in the 1880s there were adds in Russian newspapers that mentioned Nagant revolvers for sale.

    Yurovsky recovered around 19 pounds of jewelry from the bodies and in the house. More were found by peasants and the White or Non-communist Russians that investigated the murder. The rest of Alexandra's massive jewelry collection worth billions in todays currency was found by the Communists in the 1930s in I believe a monastery in Tobolsk Russia.

    I hope this is of some interest.
  • AntonioAntonio Posts: 2,986 Senior Member
    The 7.63x25mm Mauser C96 round was the .357 Magnum of its time; try shooting repeatedly one of those inside a small room without ear protection and you'll probably at least end up deaf for a while. Most ammo used must have been small caliber FMJs that either went trough-and-though so quick that unless hit in the head, might have killed the victims too slowly for the murderers' needs, or would have required multiple hits in vital parts to do the job.
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