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robert38-55
Posts: 3,621 Senior Member
More concern in Israel?
robert38-55
Posts: 3,621 Senior Member
The Israeli embassy in Cairo, Egypt was ransacked and attacked on Friday, Sept.9,2011. The ambassador to Turkey expelled, and the Palestinians seeking statehood recognition at the United Nations. Once again we find our only middle east allie isolated. This will put a strain on Middle east relations. Israeli military jets went in Saturday to evacuate diplomats after the siege. Almost a carbon copy of what happened in 1979 when Israel evacuated its embassy in Tehran, after that revolution.
For 31 years the Israeli flag has been a symbol of peace between Egypt and Israel, and now the protesters tore it to pieces. ( they would tear an American flag to pieces too). Its only been 7 months or so since the last uprising in Egypt and the down fall of Hosni Mubarak's regime, and now these ' Brother hood of Muslims" are at it again.... Israel is now going to be facing crises with Turkey and Egypt, which I always thought that those two countries were allies, with Israel, (Maybe I was wrong to think that). or maybe just by a politician's word, (and we know what thats worth).
I know that Israel will be seeking help from the United States on this and its going to be interesting if not scary to see How a facist communist, Muslim President leader, like ours, will respond. I am sure this will prompt some kind of diplomatic activity in Washington.
The bottom line is that; this is just an expanded way of putting more pressure on Israel to give the Palistenians State hood. Some of this was retaliation for Israel's attack on a Turkish ship bound for Gaza and the killing of three Egyptian soldiers along the border by Israeli military forces pursuing terrorism suspects...
As far as I am concerned these protesters coupe rebels and what have you, are not, and never had the intention of going democracy but toward "Islamicization." Once again its the same in Turkey and in Gaza. Its just like what happened in Iran in 1979.
Right now it looks like there is little Israel can do. Maybe use the "porcupine policy" to defend itself against aggression...because I can assume and guarentee ya that when it comes down to the wire, and it will, President Barrak Ovomit will not offer nor give any aid to our allie Israel... Every one wants to blame Israel for the "Islamic-inspired party" in Turkey and for Iran's nuclear program, and thats not right...... As a matter of fact that "800 kind of ways wrong"
Now get this: The Ovomit administration says that Mr. Netanyahy " has not done a thing to mitigate the fallout from the aforementioned developments." Folks what does that tell ya and what does that say about President Ovomit view on Israel? Pretty much says it all doesn't it? The Palestinians have given up on talks with Israel, and within the next two weeks they are going to ask the United Nations, (the Un needs to get out of the USA, and the USA needs to get out of the UN), to grant them "membership and statehood recognition" within the 1967 lines, including East Jerusalem as Capital... Its going to be interesting and worthwile to follow this story. It may be a prelude to another WW in the middle east, and may reshape some boarders over their....because the growing hostility from Egypt could require a radical rethinking of Israel's defense doctrine, which for the last three decades or so counted on piece on its southern border.
For 31 years the Israeli flag has been a symbol of peace between Egypt and Israel, and now the protesters tore it to pieces. ( they would tear an American flag to pieces too). Its only been 7 months or so since the last uprising in Egypt and the down fall of Hosni Mubarak's regime, and now these ' Brother hood of Muslims" are at it again.... Israel is now going to be facing crises with Turkey and Egypt, which I always thought that those two countries were allies, with Israel, (Maybe I was wrong to think that). or maybe just by a politician's word, (and we know what thats worth).
I know that Israel will be seeking help from the United States on this and its going to be interesting if not scary to see How a facist communist, Muslim President leader, like ours, will respond. I am sure this will prompt some kind of diplomatic activity in Washington.
The bottom line is that; this is just an expanded way of putting more pressure on Israel to give the Palistenians State hood. Some of this was retaliation for Israel's attack on a Turkish ship bound for Gaza and the killing of three Egyptian soldiers along the border by Israeli military forces pursuing terrorism suspects...
As far as I am concerned these protesters coupe rebels and what have you, are not, and never had the intention of going democracy but toward "Islamicization." Once again its the same in Turkey and in Gaza. Its just like what happened in Iran in 1979.
Right now it looks like there is little Israel can do. Maybe use the "porcupine policy" to defend itself against aggression...because I can assume and guarentee ya that when it comes down to the wire, and it will, President Barrak Ovomit will not offer nor give any aid to our allie Israel... Every one wants to blame Israel for the "Islamic-inspired party" in Turkey and for Iran's nuclear program, and thats not right...... As a matter of fact that "800 kind of ways wrong"
Now get this: The Ovomit administration says that Mr. Netanyahy " has not done a thing to mitigate the fallout from the aforementioned developments." Folks what does that tell ya and what does that say about President Ovomit view on Israel? Pretty much says it all doesn't it? The Palestinians have given up on talks with Israel, and within the next two weeks they are going to ask the United Nations, (the Un needs to get out of the USA, and the USA needs to get out of the UN), to grant them "membership and statehood recognition" within the 1967 lines, including East Jerusalem as Capital... Its going to be interesting and worthwile to follow this story. It may be a prelude to another WW in the middle east, and may reshape some boarders over their....because the growing hostility from Egypt could require a radical rethinking of Israel's defense doctrine, which for the last three decades or so counted on piece on its southern border.
"It is what it is":usa:
Replies
The '67 border thing won't happen no matter what the UN tries to do. Israel won't go for it, period. Neither will they give up East Jerusalem. Non starter that will not happen.
― Douglas Adams
"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
"Hey, we want that back".
:that: That's near enough to my sentiments on it
, and as for the argument on the arabs not using the land, really, as a supposed supporter of the Constitution and Bill of Rights you're going to say that because someone can be more productive than someone else on a piece of dirt they therefore are entitled to it over those who lived there, and that their property rights disappear because of this? because thats about one of the stupidest things I've ever heard someone say.
BTW Robert 38-55, Calling someone a communist fascist is a little like the concept of the cartoon Catdog, whilst both are similar in that they are furry, enjoyable to have around and give a sense of companionship, they are at the end of the day, a cat and a dog morphed together, or what we would call an oxymoron, which is what referring to someone as a "facist communist" is as well, whilst they are similar in many respects, they are fundamentally different political viewpoints,
Don't believe the bible, however the history of Israel as a nation dates a long way back before the so called Balfour declaration.
Well sure, but there are also people who could claim their "ancestral homeland" is South-Central Los Angeles. Not a lot of folks get all teary-eyed about departing, nor do a lot launch pilgrimages to return. Only difference with the Los Angelinos is that there weren't any flaming shrubs telling them the LA basin was the Promised Land (we call those "brush fires" BTW). Israel might be a good place to occupy and hold by force if aviation and modern freight practices hadn't rendered the whole trade route from Asia to Africa almost useless. As it is, the ONLY reason the Israelis have to live on a bullseye is religious, and the reasons their Muslim neighbors have for wanting them out are religious. . . it's simply not something I will ever have the ability to fathom.
As I've said before, give Nevada to the Israelis, and hire the London Bridge people to move their precious wall. . .or just hire the Vegas people to build a replica. Between Caesar's Palace and the Luxor, it should seem quite Mediterranean and homelike. Jews get their desert. Palestinians get their desert.
Only problem with that solution is that since both groups would still be living in A DESERT, they'd probably just redirect their natural frustrations and find new groups to hate and kill. :roll:
"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
Then I guess you do not understand Jews, moot point that I am a Jew, another moot point how offensive I find what you said too.
Gee Thanks Big !!!!! :applause:
Yeah, FYI, I don't hate anyone, not even the guys that killed My comrades on 9/11/01, and yes, I lost too many to count, and I still do not hate anyone !!!!
I would like to say more, but civility limits Me.
I guess it is also too easy to gloss over the fact that I was there at the World Trade Center on 9/11/01 Officially, and was almost killed when tower two collapsed, and I have not been the same since, I was in the rescue effort, then the recovery effort, graves registration etc..... losing so many people close to Me, I have plenty of reasons to hate, and yet I do not.
Also, I may disagree with you, but I still consider you as a friend.
Look up the USS Liberty incident sometime. I won't bias your research by offering any sites. Look it up.
Look up the history of the Irgun (The progenitors of the Mossad) and the Acre Prison Break.
Look up the King David Hotel bombing.
Look up how Israel got it's nukes.
Yeah, about that, that one was pretty much justified.
:that:
Luis
I said MAJOR CONFLICTS...
Look up the USS Liberty incident sometime. I won't bias your research by offering any sites. Look it up.
No need, I remember that....
Look up the history of the Irgun (The progenitors of the Mossad) and the Acre Prison Break.
That too, but it doesn't qualify as a major conflict...
Look up the King David Hotel bombing.
Yep...nasty terrorist stuff...not a major conflict...
Look up how Israel got it's nukes.
The Israelis got help from the French, the British, and the US in developing their nuclear weapons arsenal...so what? I'd rather them have the things than "the other side"...
Actually, I'm kinda surprised they haven't used them before now...
MY original point...when has Israel AS A NATION, been the primary aggressor in conflicts with it neighboring nations?
Well...No...what about all the rockets that were fired from that area...seems to me they finally got tired of it and shot back....
What is America getting for this money?
Since I don't want the relegious thinking I'm singling out Israel, we gave Egypt $20 billion in the same period. Why?
Adam J. McCleod
Which is EXACTLY why they have become so good at building their own toys....
One of the reasons that we do the foreign aid thing is to keep them from turning aggressive neighboring countries into giant mirrors....Remember the First Gulf War? We turned ourselves inside out to keep the Israelis from entering the fray....Especially when the SCUDs started falling on Israel...
Don't take it personal Doc. I tend to rub members of all the world's religions the wrong way at times - it's just my way of returning the favor. Dogma shouldn't be necessary to figure out right and wrong, and it tends to lead a lot of small-minded folks into large-scale events that get VERY ugly indeed.
But that's just my disbelieving/deity-rejecting opinion on the matter, and you've got every right to disagree with me. But on the practical side that we can actually perceive, the U.S. claims to be a melting pot for people of all backgrounds, yet provides MASSIVE amounts of military aid to one side of what is essentially a religious conflict. Yet the U.S. also dumps MASSIVE amounts of money to buy oil from countries populated by large quantities of mad-dog fundamentalists on the other side of that religious conflict. Anyone who thinks that 9/11 would have still happened without that dynamic, should go back to their scotch and bongwater.
Not having any use for either belief system involved in this conflict, I gotta break it down like this:
Propping up the Israelis feels good because they seem more like us - possibly because of common European influences, but in terms of trade goods and services, they provide us with . . .ummmm. . .gee. . .nothing.
The populations of the Muslim states may seem more than a little weird to many of us, but they're on the other side of the planet where their ways can be largely ignored, and they provide us with OIL.
Letting the people of that region hash out their differences by themselves would keep us on a strictly business footing with all those nations, which would get us cheap gas and a major reduction in terror alerts. I don't have any beef with Israel (Hell, I'm willing to GIVE them all of Nevada to solve this crisis), but from a national security/economic viewpoint, getting into bed with them doesn't do us any favors. It's one of those "entangling alliances" that Jefferson warned us about, the likes of which kicked off the First World War in grand style.
"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
And that the way I feel also^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I agree with that too!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:agree::that:
Maybe but IMHO there is enough similarities to. According to general accepted way of thinking communist and facist hate each other. On one hand both seem to support strict controlling government and oppose individual liberty. They both outlaw freedom to criticise and ragg on the government and punish anyone who does. They both dictate who you can associate with and both fascism and communism have no qualmls over executing or exterminating huge numbers of people for unfair and unjust reasons so the question I have is: tell me how they are actually different? With so many similarities why do they hate each other so much?????????????????????????
The only thing I see different is: Fascim is business controlling government and Communism is Government controlling all business and the economy. I supposed that one could argue that Fascism is national totalitariansim, where Communism is international totalitarianism(empire) if you will....In that respect then I argue that they are not that much different because both sponsor authoritorian regimes, and use a central government, police state, and a military to solve all their problems. The old standard way of expressing political philosophy is a line, with liberals to the left and conservatives to the right(or it used to be that way).... Communism is way left and fascism is way right, but take each to the extreme then commusnism and fascism are pretty darn close I think, so the line becomes a circle,or a horseshoe. One of the best deffinitions I have read goes something like this:
FASCISM: Industry and military control the government. Reactionary(far right).
COMMUNISM: The government controls industry. Radical (far left).
..... Never the less if we take at look of whats been happening in America for the last 4 or 5 decades, and then look at what Ovomit has done in the last 4 years we see that our Government has been reaching a level of 'CORPORATISM' where the bankers, medical and military industries, corporations private lobbyist and paid(bribed) politicians take control of the US government, while weakening and diminishing our rights and totally ignoring/violating our Constitution. In other words again we have a "Corporate fascism" with an imperialistic policy.
So therefore I conclude that FASCISM AND COMMUNISM when put into actual practice are twins, sharing more in common than not. Both are nothing more tha "Paid lip service" and I have said before and I will say it again that if I want "lip service" from the US government or anyone else I will scrape it off my zipper!!!! and both fascism and communism have resulted in similar fates for their societies: Single political party dominance and excessive, invasive control and manipulationof the citizenry. That fact can't be denied,, and this is what I see now at present when I look around at this point in the USA.......
I/WE know from history that communist and fascist government( as labeled and practiced) have conveniently joined forces with one another in attempts to stamp out dissidence, as well as expand their scope of influence out into the world, and aside from their differing theoretical framework and economic arrangements, history show that their activities and authoritarian tactics become virtually indistinguishable. (compare WWII-era Germany with Italy and Russia)
The United States in most certainly not a Laissez-faire economy anymore and hasn't been for a long, long time. So its clear to me that what I think of as "democratic societies" are sliding toward fascism/corporatism, even in my own country the USA. Perhaps I should have called Ovomit a totalitarianism, because its still an oppressive form of government, where a state regulates nearly every aspect of public and private life..( Isn't this happening right now in our country as we speak?) sure looks like it to me!!!!!!
.. The USA maynot be a full fascism or communism,or totalitarianism yet but if we keep going down this same road that we have been on then it will not be long till we are there. And as far as calling some one a fascist/communist I will continue to do so, because " I call 'em like I see"em"
Ya got that right!!!!!!!!! oxymoron = self contridictary... describes the Ovomit to a tee, because he talks out of both sides of his mouth...the focus of that Cat-dog cartoon was looniness, silliness, and out-of-control antics with very little in the way of redeeming qualities, just like the Ovomit administration!!!!!!!!!!!:rotflmao:
So, when Israel loses the ability to defeat its enemy (all of Islam) by conventional warfare, which it will, without our continued aid, are you satisfied to let them turn Mecca, Teheran, and Cairo into glass? I know it sounds pretty good, on the surface, but it could have some serious consequences.
I look at the whole situation from the standpoint of how best to slow down the spread of Islam. Atheists and agnostics tend to classify all religions as being equally bad, but I contend that a religion that accumulates converts 'by the sword' and is justified in any sort of nastiness toward any 'other' people are somewhat more of a danger than other religions.
Baptists send their missionaries to be slaughtered in third world countries, and religious Jews often annoy the hell out of those who disagree with them, but they tend not to saw the heads off of folks who disagree with them. Even the more moderate Muslims refuse to live within the laws of the countries they reside in, which is generally not true of most other religions.
I'm for investing in Israel's survival for a lot of reasons, but just the fact that it keeps all of Islam in an uproar is a good enough reason, alone, for me. Islam never settles down and becomes a 'nice' religion, once it has vanquished its enemies. It just selects a different group to demonize. The taxpayer money we spend to keep Israel's arsenal up to snuff pales in significance to what we waste in a thousand other worthless enterprises.
who wan't to overtake Israel are the same ones who wan't to kill us. Who would be next, perhaps Spain? I have worked and lived
in places like Lebanon, Saudi, SPAIN, I have friends from the middle east, both Muslims and Christians, they all say the the same thing, " the crazies are in charge" They wan't war with ALL non believers, that is all you need to think about.