Home Main Category Personal Defense

Trigger pull / weight & personal defense

DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior MemberPosts: 9,496 Senior Member
I have always liked the characteristic trigger of S&W revolvers, the older worn in ones best of all, however, the Sa trigger of a 1911 is one of My favorite too.

The real question I have is:

are we better off with a certain type of trigger ( lawyer designed guns ) or is a simpler lighter single action trigger still OK ?
"There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996

Replies

  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,721 Senior Member
    It's fine as it is.

    Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Better off, as in???

    Lets say post personal defense shooting, is a relatively long heavy trigger pull better from a legal standing ?
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,463 Senior Member
    But when I bought it, it was that way. I didn't know. I thought that's how they all came.
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,912 Senior Member
    On a justifiable shoot, the trigger pull is irrelevant. A 1lb trigger is not illegal.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    We should let the government figure this out for us. They have the money to do the studies, and plenty of lawyers. They are here to help us, and we should let them.
  • KSU FirefighterKSU Firefighter Senior Member Posts: 3,249 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    We should let the government figure this out for us. They have the money to do the studies, and plenty of lawyers. They are here to help us, and we should let them.

    Aren't our government researchers tied up with studying the effect of cow flatulence on global climate change? I would hate to tear them away from something as important as that.
    The fire service needs a "culture of extinguishment not safety" Ray McCormack FDNY
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    Aren't our government researchers tied up with studying the effect of cow flatulence on global climate change? I would hate to tear them away from something as important as that.

    That's old news. They are now doing feasibility studies on putting diapers on cattle to prevent them from fertilizing the creeks and rivers as they cool their hocks in same.

    (You may think i jest, but they did study having farmers/ranchers put diapers on their cattle to prevent manure from polluting the water.)
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • KSU FirefighterKSU Firefighter Senior Member Posts: 3,249 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    That's old news. They are now doing feasibility studies on putting diapers on cattle to prevent them from fertilizing the creeks and rivers as they cool their hocks in same.

    (You may think i jest, but they did study having farmers/ranchers put diapers on their cattle to prevent manure from polluting the water.)


    Wish I could say that surprises me, but, that is just dumb enough to be believable.
    The fire service needs a "culture of extinguishment not safety" Ray McCormack FDNY
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,861 Senior Member
    Yeah and smart diapers can test for nutriment deficiency
  • LerchessLerchess Senior Member Posts: 550 Senior Member
    It all depends on the prosecutor. I would say if they get that ridiculous they don't have much of a case.

    The media is a different story. The media will convict you on such foolishness.
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    As far as I'm concerned, on a single-action automatic without a completely disabling safety or 2, (like on a 1911) no trigger pull is heavy enough for me to feel comfy and safe. That's why I will never own a Glock. If the SA auto has safeties, like a 1911, no trigger pull is too light for me. Regarding double-action revolvers, make 'em as light and smooth as you can, and still guarantee ignition.
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,496 Senior Member
    The thing about teaching cops how to shoot: You pretty much get stuck with lawyer triggers and as such end up improving your fundamentals to where not having a match trigger isn't much of a handicap. If the technique is good, seven to twelve pounds (depending on the system) is perfectly usable so long as the pull is reasonably clean.

    But never mind the human interface aspect - there are also certain reliability issues involved:

    1911's: A "combat" version is going to break somewhere between 4.5 and 7 pounds, and with that, you get a sear that's going to hold, a hammer that won't follow the slide, and a mainspring that will ignite a hard primer.

    AR-15's: The standard GI/LE parts kits give you 6.5 pounds on the low end and 9 on the really heavy side. Many of the same issues as the 1911 are at work here - the key factor being RELIABLE.

    Revolvers: Lightening the mainspring and trigger rebound springs will give you a nice, light DA pull. These mods can also give you light strikes, slower trigger reset, and failure to reset when dirty.

    Figure that the engineers design the stock set of parts for certain reasons, and lawyer-proofing with extra pull weight is not in the front of their minds so much as lawyer-proofing through reliability no matter what you can reasonably expect a less-than-gifted end user to do with the product. Defensive shooting is not going to tax the accuracy capabilities of any halfway decent firearm, but going BANG every time is pretty darned important.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Thank you Bigslug ! as always, your answer was clear and right to the point, also most informative, just what I needed !!
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Well, the answer is in 2 parts, as I see it, legal and tactical.

    As Z correctly says, a legally defensible self defense shoot is not dependent on trigger pull. If it's a legal shoot, trigger pull's not a factor. And if you unfortunately live in a state that is somewhat anti-gun and you get hauled to court, your attorney should be able to disallow any mention of the trigger pull force in court.

    Tactically, unless you're a very experienced shooter, someone who's in constant training, too light a trigger pull can result in firing too quickly in a genuine self defense situation. By "constant training" I don't even mean folks here who go to the range all the time (most of us do), but professional shooters who work with special light trigger guns as part of their act.

    Of course, a too heavy pull can cause you to jerk the aim, too.

    Personally I've never had problems with good quality factory trigger settings. Long pull triggers (DA revolvers and striker pistols) are of course different from SA pistols (1911s, etc) but they're no big problem getting used to, so long as the action is smooth and properly lubed, etc.

    That being said, I prefer the 1911 trigger (SA) over other styles.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    but professional shooters who work with special light trigger guns as part of their act.

    Some of those professional shooters, shoot themselves somehow, the gun firing before they clear leather.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    but professional shooters who work with special light trigger guns as part of their act.

    Some of those professional shooters, shoot themselves somehow, the gun firing before they clear leather.

    Very true, where the term "shooting yourself in the foot" originated, I'm sure.
  • Mike WeberMike Weber Member Posts: 91 Member
    Some of those professional shooters, shoot themselves somehow, the gun firing before they clear leather.
    Somewhere in my photo archives I have a picture from one of the movie studios showing a group of cowboy stars from the 50's One of them has very visible powderburns from a blank charge on his leg caused by discharging his revolver in the holster..It was common practice in those days for the movie fast draw artists to cock the revolver while it was still holstered in order to speed up the draw.
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,496 Senior Member
    Probably should have mentioned in the first post - Ed McGivern, as I recall, did all his speed and trick shots with basically stock S&W wheelguns; including hitting airborne marbles and ventilating playing cards with six rounds at a rate of fire that an Uzi can't match. The heavy springs made a fast trigger reset possible, and proper grip (coupled with strength developed through a lot of practice) ensured the accuracy didn't suffer.

    We've amply discussed the the drawbacks of messing with triggers on defensive guns, but from the simple mechanical perspective of hitting the target, fixing the shooter's grip, sight picture, and anticipation issues will solve a lot more problems than fixing the trigger - and these improvements have the virtue of being immediately transferred from one gun to the next.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Bigslug wrote: »
    etc We've amply discussed the the drawbacks of messing with triggers on defensive guns, but from the simple mechanical perspective of hitting the target, fixing the shooter's grip, sight picture, and anticipation issues will solve a lot more problems than fixing the trigger - and these improvements have the virtue of being immediately transferred from one gun to the next.

    Very true! Unless the trigger's defective or the action is unusually rough or hard, most any standard trigger is okay for self defense, so long as the shooter's aware of how things work and has practiced.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    Very true! Unless the trigger's defective or the action is unusually rough or hard, most any standard trigger is okay for self defense, so long as the shooter's aware of how things work and has practiced.

    at one point, mid 90s IIRC, I was doing remedial LE training for the N.Y.C.P.D. , and the issue S&W revolvers had such heavy springs many were failing qualification, I worked extra so no one failed, those were some heavy ( felt like 16 lbs) triggers !
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
Sign In or Register to comment.
Magazine Cover

GET THE MAGAZINE Subscribe & Save

Temporary Price Reduction

SUBSCRIBE NOW

Give a Gift   |   Subscriber Services

PREVIEW THIS MONTH'S ISSUE

GET THE NEWSLETTER Join the List and Never Miss a Thing.

Get the top Guns & Ammo stories delivered right to your inbox every week.

Advertisement