Home Main Category Hunting

Guns and Ammo .308 article

shawn1172shawn1172 Senior MemberPosts: 588 Senior Member
Anyone read it? I'd post a link but don't know how on my phone. Basically craps on the .308 as a long range hunting round. I'm no ballistics expert but there are points I agree with and some I don't. Just wondering about the forum's opinion of the article.

Replies

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,989 Senior Member
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,989 Senior Member
    Using the 168gr A-Max, the .308 Winchester is a very effective hunting round out to 600 yards for medium game.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,482 Senior Member
    I couldn't help myself, I responded to the author's article.
    It ended up putting my response about in the middle of everyone else though.
    I could help myself, but it just wasn't a fair apples to apples comparison.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,989 Senior Member
    I agree that comparing the .308 Winchester to the .300 WM was kind of an "oh really" moment.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,258 Senior Member
    The .308 became a sniping round because the M14 and M60 chambered it, NOT because it was the best long range game in town. The .30-06 was a better heavy-bullet driver then, and it's a better heavy bullet driver now - and the .300 Win Mag was already on the block at the time. But you have to remember that was the age of McNamara and one piece of equipment to solve all problems, so the "one cartridge for three roles" concept looked better on paper than it panned out in real life. Notice today we have the 5.56 for general rifleman use, 7.62/.308 for the GPMG and DM's, and snipers making a shift to various magnums. True, the .308 happened to be passable enough to fill the lead sniping role for 3-4 decades, but when you look close at the stories of guys who REALLY stretched its legs you often see several common factors:

    * The shooter is usually somebody who was trained to the nines in long range shooting.
    * The range is usually known to the inch, such as in a firebase observation tower in Vietnam with good maps close at hand, or in modern combat where laser ranging and GPS can be brought to bear.
    *Thin, high-altitude air, leaving rounds in the sun to increase pressure, etc... often get cited as helpful factors in making the shot.

    The 175 grain Match King was developed because the 168 couldn't reliably stay supersonic to a thousand yards with the .308 is its launch platform.

    The U.S. Army built the M24 on a long action so that a bolt and barrel change could give them a .300 Win Mag. . .and that choice was made in the heyday of the .308's sniping career.

    As a hunting round, the .308 will kill deer as far as anyone has any business shooting them, but it seems to get a bit of inflated mysticism attached to it because of being used so heavily in the sniping capacity. The reality is while the .308 is a workable medium range choice, there ARE better choices.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • AdrianAdrian Member Posts: 65 Member
    I just got my first .308 this year believe it or not, a T/C Dimension. I've shot exactly one head of game with it, a 170lb Texas hog who got dead pretty quick. Of course the range was only 20 yards. I know I'll get some flak for saying it, but I really don't think anybody should be shooting at game at 800+ yards with anything. But, if you feel like you're awesome enough to do it, there are better cartridges than the .308 to do it with.

    The author sets his long range limit at 400 yards and that seems reasonable to me. Personally I'd have to think pretty hard at taking even a 400 yard shot. But based solely on the numbers offered by various ammo makers, the .308 looks pretty good to me out to that distance, at least on deer sized game.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,989 Senior Member
    A lengthy read, but very informative. These folks are head and shoulders more knowledgeable than the author of that article. These folks actually do scientific research on terminal performance and not regurgitate useless info as the author did.

    Cool video at the end, as well. Take a look see.

    http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/.308+Winchester+7.62+NATO.html
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,482 Senior Member
    What an excellent article!!!
    And you have been holding this back from me all this time???
    Zee wrote: »
    A lengthy read, but very informative. These folks are head and shoulders more knowledgeable than the author of that article. These folks actually do scientific research on terminal performance and not regurgitate useless info as the author did.

    Cool video at the end, as well. Take a look see.

    http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/.308+Winchester+7.62+NATO.html
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,989 Senior Member
    I have to feed you in small doses. Don't want you to OD.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,989 Senior Member
    Isn't it amazing, Ernie? The difference between speculation (OP article) and fact (my link).

    Haha!
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,482 Senior Member
    I do get overwhelmed pretty easy :)
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,482 Senior Member
    You know it must be bad, if I write a long response in defense of the 308.

    It was weird that my user name showed up as my old user name, "xphunter."
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,482 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    Isn't it amazing, Ernie? The difference between speculation (OP article) and fact (my link).

    Haha!

    Not really, in that I am surprised or shocked about what some gun writer would put in print.
    The contrast between opinion and reality is stark.
    That is why I was compelled to respond to the article itself.
    I really hate misrepresentation. Even of the 308 Winchester.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,482 Senior Member
    I just posted that link of that article on that blog.
    Anyone who's read that article deserves to have a more clear accurate picture then what was presented.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 6,244 Senior Member
    Wow, you 308 fanboys make snake look absolutely rational.

    /stir
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,482 Senior Member
    When not being silly, I would even defend the 270:silly:
    Just not on this forum though:tooth:
    Buffco wrote: »
    Wow, you 308 fanboys make snake look absolutely rational.

    /stir
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,482 Senior Member
    Thank you.
    Bad thing is, I have made three posts on it.
    That article provoked me.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,482 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    You went from a 3 oh late hater, to a 3 oh late defender. And you even bought a rifle in 308.
    The munchkin has had great influence upon you.
    I never was a hater. I just didn't think the 308 is all that some people make it out to be. It works, but there is just other cartridges that work better.
    Between Zee and Seb I don't have a chance. :)
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,989 Senior Member
    It works, but there are just other cartridges that work better.

    No? Really? Ya don't say?

    :tooth:
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,989 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    You went from a 3 oh late hater, to a 3 oh late defender. And you even bought a rifle in 308.
    The munchkin has had great influence upon you.

    He has TWO rifles in .308 Winchester.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,989 Senior Member
    Thank you.
    Bad thing is, I have made three posts on it.
    That article provoked me.

    Meh, that guy is a hack. Not worth the time.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,989 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    Wow, you 308 fanboys make snake look absolutely rational.

    /stir

    No, I agree with the guy. The .308 Winchester is not the best long range hunting cartridge. Duh!

    I just wish he'd used facts and reality to prove his case and at least seen how far it will actually work as opposed to limiting it to his personal limitation.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • shawn1172shawn1172 Senior Member Posts: 588 Senior Member
    I agree that the 308 has been over hyped due to it's use as a sniper round. But it's plenty effective for my uses, which is predominantly white tail and I wouldn't be shooting at anything beyond 300 yards. Well within its effective range.
Sign In or Register to comment.
Magazine Cover

GET THE MAGAZINE Subscribe & Save

Temporary Price Reduction

SUBSCRIBE NOW

Give a Gift   |   Subscriber Services

PREVIEW THIS MONTH'S ISSUE

GET THE NEWSLETTER Join the List and Never Miss a Thing.

Get the top Guns & Ammo stories delivered right to your inbox every week.

Advertisement