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Dr. db
Posts: 1,541 Senior Member
Alcohol and Concealed Carry
Dr. db
Posts: 1,541 Senior Member
I read an article about a neurosurgeon once in which he said he could never have more than a single glass of wine with dinner because he has always on call for an emergency.
Is concealed carry like that?
Is it like being on call all the time with the exception that you can relax and have a beer or four when you are home and in condition white?
Is concealed carry like that?
Is it like being on call all the time with the exception that you can relax and have a beer or four when you are home and in condition white?
Replies
On CCW, if I am, zero alcohol is my personal policy. If we're going out and drinks are on the menu, I don't carry.
If you're at home, you're not "on call" for CCW and your self defense is universal, drinking or not (it's not CCW then anyway).
Some folks here maintain the zero alcohol thing and that's their decision.
-- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
Or .03 or .01. This is why I won't touch a drop if I'm carrying.
Recoil is how you know primer ignition is complete.
So, I guess one goes open carry here.
That.
If you're out on the town, local laws spell out the specifics. Common sense should refine even that.
Mike
N454casull
Texas law does not say you cannot be drinking and CCW. It simply says "intoxicated" which the Tx Supremes have ruled that is the same criteria as DWI. So a couple drinks is okay. And no Texas prosecutor is gonna push the issue if the "shoot" is clean. That's the major operative factor in Tx and I'd guess, same in most southern or southwestern states.
Of course, no alcohol at all is smarter, but the average person going out for dinner may likely have a cocktail or a beer or two. And my opinion is that this is acceptable for CCW and driving both.
While it is true that here in TX you're probably okay, especially if the shoot is clean, I'd rather not tempt fate. If I'm drinking that night, I don't carry. I'll generally take the gun out of my vehicle too.
NRA Life Member
Jerry
Excellent point, wits about you! Reason I simply don't drink much. Although as a sort of "experiment" in lower sodium and such, I've been on the wagon a year, and although I do intend to enjoy a couple of fine IPAs tomorrow (Sat 9/14) at my birthday party, that will be the limit.
It's just no fun to over-eat, over-drink, or over-much else these days. My being home and having zero plans to be anywhere is no excuse to get hammered.
My only personal problem to that is, on the overall basis of lifestyles, the single most problematic time that I'm potentially in danger from, say, a carjack, is late nights when I've been clubbing with my girlfriend.
Thankfully, I've somehow grown smarter over the years. I simply do not drink very much regardless of the time or occasion or whether I'm home or not. And since I'm normally out evenings with my girlfriend as a couple, I'm the one driving. And therefore, my alcohol consumption is very very sparing. When I say 2 or 3 beers over the whole evening, I mean precisely that. A beer early, one or maybe 2 more mid-evening, then Coke after. That way I'm likely stone cold sober when we leave the club at 2am.
Let's face it -- that's when cops are on the lookout, 2-3am late Friday or Saturday or holidays.
And yes, I do understand... lots of folks here eschew night life, and will be happily at home by 10pm and settling down. And mostly that's us, too. But Dave Alvin or Marcia Ball or other superb rock/blues artists aren't gonna be performing at noon. And for an older couple (girlfriend is mid-50s, I just hit 72), we still have a reasonable night life. Not all the time, but when a good band or some friends are performing at a local club. That's what "clubbing" is to us now -- having some TexMex then spending 10pm-2am at some cozy venue and hear a fine band. Years ago it meant barhopping, 2-3 drinks per bar, driving sotted. Today, nope -- 1 bar and 3 beers max.
Still, it does mean being on the streets at 2am. And ****, carjackers are prevalent then.
No way I'm gonna go unarmed. But also, no way I'm gonna have anything NEAR the legal limit inside me, driving a car is enough reason for moderation there. And yeah, we've been stopped occasionally. They'll run a sweep, a total stop and check for everyone, set up an intersection, checkpoint at random.
And each time that's happened, I say to myself, "Whew! I remember the old days, I'd be sweating blood." Now I just show my license and the cop says "Have a nice night" and I'm gone.
So yeah, I DO "drink and CCW" but with the same crazy abandon that I drink and drive, 2 or 3 beers max. And I really do think this is okay, but I also understand the "zero alcohol" stance of others here, and that's fine with me. However, just girlfriend and Sam in the car, there's simply no designated driver.
And bottom line, internally, I actually don't "feel" anything, light as I'm now drinking. I genuinely know how it feels to be trashed, halfway there, and a bit tipsy. I feel none of that.
Regardless, this is an excellent thread question, because we each need to examine our general CCW habits, just like our other lifestyle choices, and threads like this allow us to get our thoughts out and share them.
Taste of Denver or the Great American Beer festival are not places to CCW, you will get hammered eventually....... however venturing a few blocks in the wrong direction would make you wish you were CCW, and with our recent spat of "spot 'em knock 'em" by black youths.......racial tensions are high and the black community is finding the white populace isn't putting up with this nonsense anymore. We are equal in nature.......but we will racially profile your butt with good reason.
Treyvor Martin don't mean squat around here.......you wanna try'n jack me.......you're gonna get ventilated if I'm not a non-carrying Dem/Libo wussy. I means to defend myself......go Broncos! LOL
Best course of action is to travel downtown in groups, but that is no insurance........someone will have to carry the big stick, and like a designated driver......that stick should have a clear mind...........sucks being the sober one sometimes, but better than wearing a toe-tag!
edit to add: Razor mentioned a thread I posted in the past about be snookered at home and investigated a "bump in the night".
I think that anyone's who's had to suddenly "snap-to" in any situation has found that they could sober-up pretty instantly when the situation warrants........for example.........you've been watching the game and having a few........then you get the call that your daughter/son has been in an accident and there are fatalities..........would anyone here just sit at home and send the wife!? Hell no, your mind/body just went into overdrive and you mind went instant sober even if your body say's "no way"
I've seen this phenomenon in action.........it ain't entirely legal by a BAC test.......but the cognizence is there to make you operate enough.
I have to string along with this because I've experienced it. Strong buzz going on, having fun, then BAM, sober as a judge and dealing. I feel certain my BAC was of the charts but I did deal. Other people there even commented on it the next day and i had little memory of it.
Regarding the spot 'em; knock 'em or what ever. This has become a national phenomena. Some places they call it the knock out game. Some places they call it Polar Bear hunting. It happened to me twice in one night a while ago. I won't tell the story here but I didn't get hurt.
Anyway, we went out tonight, had a high old time. Danced, sang a little karaoke, or however you spell that. Then something happened. Instant buzz kill. I think it must be adrenalin. Like shooting at game without hearing protection. Your ears don't even ring.
So, at home the rules are different. But on the town. i look at it strictly from an after action perspective. If Sargent Stadanko or some over zealous prosecutor wants to make a name for himself at my expense. He or she won't be able to hang their hat on my BAC.
Just how I look at it.
Very true. It's just that Dave Alvin or Marcia Ball haven't offered to bring their bands over to my place lately. I dunno know why. (ha ha)
Actually I know exactly what you're saying. All I'm remarking is that I'm now vewwy vewwy (Elmer Fudd-ish) careful about drinking to excess, actually even moderately nowdays. And I really don't miss it, like Ringo Starr said, I'm tired of waking up on the floor.
So for me, a 3-beer max evening, starting early and going oh, 2 hours AFTER my last beer when we leave the club, I'm essentially sober. And not impaired.
Texas has the 50% rule. If over half of the revenue is from alcohol sales, no CCW -- places like bars or taverns. Restaurants that serve booze, it's okay to carry, even if you're sitting in an annex that's got a bar, just as long as the bar annex still serves food and is contiguous with the restaurant part.
For me personally, I rarely CCW any more, gun on my physical person. And of course that means I'll be at the club w. my girlfriend enjoying a band, no gun in pocket. But I'll have that Glock 36 in the car's center console for the ride home. And still, 3-beer max for the whole night, and no beer at all in the last 1-2 hours prior to leaving.
I also understand the "Sergeant Standanko" idea (although I don't know precisely who that is -- some TV character I suppose) but overzealous antigun prosecutors just don't get elected in Texas, and the attitude here is almost totally pro-2A, one reason I'm happy to live here. Were I to live in NuuYawk I can understand.
We have regular occurrences of armed self defense here all the time. Rarely are charges filed and it never has anything to do with general CCW, but goofy situations (there are plenty of jerks with CCW permits) who show up in the middle of the street screaming at the neighbors and firing their "right to open carry" gun in the air. Zip, zap, go directly to jail.
Texas CHL law is directly linked to drinking and driving, that if you're convicted of DWI and this occurred while you were armed, you also lose your CHL. As it should be.
I fully understand the wish to not be the slightest bit impaired if you (the universal "you" not you personally) have to use lethal force in defense, but this morning I've had some added thoughts on that... if you're not carrying when you've had even 1 drink for that reason, then it goes to the argument that you also will lock up your weapons at home if you're drinking even ONE drink there too, as you don't want to be even slightly impaired if a shoot did occur. Or if you're tired, or running a slight fever from the flu, or anything else that slightly impairs your otherwise perfect judgment, right? If the principle of the thing is that you don't wish to CCW even if you're slightly impaired from just 1-2 beers, then the same argument applies if you're at home, because the responsibility is the same.
That being said, I'm okay with someone who decides that even one drink is sufficient to stay away from driving for the whole evening. Myself, however, I would normally allow myself those 2-3 drinks overall. It's a judgment call and I'm okay with a BAC of abut 0.04% or so.
So do what you want but I just want to have the groundwork laid so that there's nothing they can point to except the facts of the matter at hand.
I do live here in Texas and I DO know that the attitude of the courts is very pro-gun, and a prosecuting attorney would have to get full unqualified approval from the lead DA, and I can tell you that "down here" you REALLY have to screw up big time for a grand jury to indict for a "bad" shoot. Not a guarantee but close to it. A prosecuting attorney never "decides" on a whim to do much of anything, and in such a politically charged issue as gun rights and self defense, no decision would be made without lots of background pondering. Generally the police investigation points the way, and they might recommend charges be filed, maybe voluntary manslaughter. Then the county attorney decides whether to present to a grand jury with charges recommended, and usually the GJ rubberstamps the DA's recommendation but not always.
Thing is, in Texas (as in most southern or southwestern pro-gun states), county attorneys serve at the will of the voters and most here are pro-gun. There are simply no anti-gun prosecutors here, or if there are, they certainly will be overridden by their bosses. It's political suicide to be anti-2A here, so even the Democrats are fairly pro-gun.
You also say "unarmed black teen" and I'm a little confused on that. First, it's highly unlikely that I'm gonna be shooting any unarmed person unless I was hotly attacked. Most attackers will be armed in some way, knife or club if not a gun. Or there'd be several of 'em.
The "black" thing isn't much of an issue publicly but privately it may be. Like it or not, even-handed or not, ideal or not, law enforcement looks more harshly at blacks than at whites. And let's face it... that "black teen" won't be an honor student walking home from his study group on Christian philosophy after a long afternoon at the library studying for his physics final. More likely he'll be a lowlife thug with a long track record of assaults and other crimes. And I'm an "elderly" guy with zero criminal record, plenty of LEO pals, and good contacts in the Houston legal establishment. For me to be indicted there would have to be a strong preponderance of negative evidence against me, and that ain't gonna happen.
In Texas I've had FOUR near-shoots, instances where I drew down on someone and pointed the gun, threatening to fire. All were investigated by police and all were totally cleared. I know my self defense law and I'm very careful about it, as we all should be.
In my opinion, and I may be wrong, often am...
IF someone is sensible about CCW and wishes to drink booze, the same balance should be observed similar to drinking and driving. That is, very low amounts. This is how I see it, and for me, my cut-off point is about 1/2 the legal limit for driving, same therefore for CCW.
IF however someone is very concerned about problems related to armed self defense, and therefore totally abstains from ANY drink while carrying for that reason, not wanting the slightest impairment to be a problem, then that same exact high standard of conduct and concern should be applied while at home, all guns locked away if drinking, even one or two beers. Or if running a slight fever from the flu, or being very tired, or any other impairmemnt of the teeniest level. Also, being home should not absolve the person from the same stringent standards. If so, if there's a dual standard, then it's a sliding scale and by that token, very low alcohol consumption while out should not disqualify for CCW, all other laws obeyed.
I do however see your point and understand your strict policy. But I'd also suggest you think carefully about drinking at home if your guns are available, too. That overzealous prosecutor won't care whether you were home or away.
-- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician