Gun owning martyrdom in the 3rd. World

AntonioAntonio Senior MemberPosts: 2,406 Senior Member
Few weeks ago during the nice meeting with Diver43 & his wife I amazed him with the horror stories that were all the errands paperwork needed to properly own a licensed gun over here.

Today the martyrdom started, and did it with the wrong foot. After paying at the National bank (Looong lines; around $ 37) at the account number they gave me a month ago at the office in charge of issuing hunting licenses (You need one to own any long gun), I went to the office itself (Terrible traffic) and presented my paperwork and payed invoice to apply to the mandatory hunting written test. Unfortunately for me, the customer service employee told me that they changed the account number 3 weeks ago, and that I had to go back to the bank to ask for a refund and make the correct deposit.

Back at the bank (45 minutes of awful traffic jam, no parking spaces) the tellers' manager told me that I'll have to write and take a letter to the financial area of the Agricultural Ministry asking for either a refund or a re-route of the money, and that could take at least a week IF they agreed to do that; otherwise I'd have to place a formal complain and wait it to be processed.

Needless to say, that would take more than the $ 37 of my (And work) time, gas, parking, extra paperwork and anger, so literally I've been ripped.

And this is step # 1 of another 6 different paperwork errands I'll have to make just to apply to a license renewal of some (8) of my guns, that since this year will last, thanks to a new gun law that your gun-grabbing politicians would love to apply there, only 1 year!!
Add to that the fact that now we're required to pass a State-issued psychiatric & psychological test (That currently no State health institution is issuing) and we're living a true law-abiding (So far) owner nightmare.

Will keep you guys updated with further developments. That way you can go to bed thanking living in the USA and still being able to keep your rights. Meanwhile, I'm taking job offers! :jester:


  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Do they sell PVC pipe and shovels in your country? I'm tempted to arrange a "burglary" of several of my guns by someone who knows how to dig a deep hole!
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 9,088 Senior Member
    Holy Smokes, one must possess a true passion for shooting and hunting to go through all of that. I wish you luck in this endeavor.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,518 Senior Member
    That almost sounds like getting a building permit in Detroit.
  • AntonioAntonio Senior Member Posts: 2,406 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    Do they sell PVC pipe and shovels in your country? I'm tempted to arrange a "burglary" of several of my guns by someone who knows how to dig a deep hole!

    Yes they do, but they have passed a law that considers any legal owner of any 9mm handgun as a criminal in possession of military-grade weaponry, penalized with up to 20 years of jail no matter what. Last date to surrender your guns (Or sell them to a cop or military personnel) is October 10th. Needles to say, clumsy as I am, I'll probably loss my P-08 Luger and my Walther P-38 with the proper police report paperwork to prove it. Anything is better than seeing them in a cop's holster or thrown into a melting pot.

    Also I'm intended to surrender any excess of guns I own over the new imposed limit of 2 per local sports federation recognized shooting discipline, or 2 per "kind" for hunting purposes.

    Next Wednesday we're staging a protest against recent gun laws; will probably be a few dozens, maybe a hundred legal owners, but will try to press our issue and not go down without a fight. Will post pics if possible (If cops don't beat up us and confiscate our cameras).

    This is a mirror my friends, and you could someday look yourselves in careful! And thanks for your sympathies.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,518 Senior Member
    That sucks so bad Antonio. You need to get your butt up here for good.
  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,755 Senior Member
    This seems to be the norm for Latin American countries. They seem to typically prohibit all firearms and ammunition that is used by their military and/or police. This is because dictators and corrupt governments are (for good reasons) afraid of their oppressed citizens possessing firearms and especially firearms technically on par with the government's. Exactly why the U.S. government wants to ban "assault weapons" and "high capacity" magazines.

    Czech Republic experience 2000

    I was fortunate in being able to visit the Czech Republic in 2000. It is a wonderful country and the citizens are very freedom oriented having endured decades of Soviet oppression. I visited a gun store in Brno and was very surprised to learn that if I chose to, I could have purchased a new CZ75C for the equivalent of 240 dollars US, all the ammunition I desired, and walked out the door! No forms. No background check. No waiting period, although a permit would be required for concealed carry. I informed them that I was not a Czech citizen. They said that was OK! I felt like I had time traveled to pre 1968. By the way, the Czech Republic has the 3rd LOWEST crime rate in all of Europe (I wonder why). The store employees were appalled to learn that these things were required in the "free" U.S. and especially that I being a U.S. soldier would not be allowed to transport the CZ75 back to a combat zone! Since joining the EU in 2004 I am confident that the Czechs are very disappointed in seeing their personal freedoms disappearing.
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    That almost sounds like getting a building permit in Detroit.

    "Slooooowly I turned, step by step..." Having built 3 restaurants in Tucson, and endured truly stupefying governmental incompetence each time, all I can say is don't get me started on Planning and Zoning.
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,332 Senior Member
    About 25 or 30 years ago, I watched a movie called "Brazil." It typified the nightmare of government bureaucracy much in the same way as you describe. Doesn't socialism really suck?
  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,755 Senior Member
    About 25 or 30 years ago, I watched a movie called "Brazil." It typified the nightmare of government bureaucracy much in the same way as you describe. Doesn't socialism really suck?
    If Brazil wasn't so weird it would be a great training film!
  • Pelagic KayakerPelagic Kayaker Banned Posts: 1,503 Senior Member
    Ever think about becoming a U.S citizen?
    "The reflection upon my situation and that of this army produces many an uneasy hour when all around me are wrapped in sleep. Few people know the predicament we are in" ~General George Washington, January 14, 1776
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Antonio, we all have a love for our homeland and we also have affection for most countries of our heritage. I'm therefore a dedicated Anglophile, enjoy reading about Holland, France, Germany, Ireland, and Scotland, too.

    But no way I'd live there. And frankly, no way I'd care much to live in some of the more gun-restrictive states here in the USA -- when I left California in the late 80s it was still somewhat sane, but New York, Illinois? Nope.

    We wish you well and really do sympathize, and we also realized that you'd be one of the immigrants we'd be very happy to see move here permanently!

    Thanks for the report -- it makes us realize how lucky we are. In Texas I can just stroll into a store, buy a pistol, and with proper ID, just walk out with it, no waiting period, nothing except have an online background check.

    Yes, do keep us posted, pal.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • TrueTone911TrueTone911 Senior Member Posts: 6,281 Senior Member
    I have complained about California before Antonio but clearly I have nothing to complain about. Except to complain to my legislators in the hopes that our situation does not worsen.

    You have my sympathy and good luck wishes for your protest.
    Oppressors can tyrannize only when they achieve a standing army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed populace.  ~ James Madison
  • AntonioAntonio Senior Member Posts: 2,406 Senior Member
    Thanks to all for the best wishes.

    Protest was suspended. It was going to be staged at a local downtown plaza, but apparently the state office in charge of issuing the protest licenses either refused to authorize it or the paperwork/time frame was inadequate. Too bad since a hunting organization was going to show with their hunting dogs (Pointers, retrievers, etc.) and that usually calls media attention.

    If authorization isn't secured, we'll stage a "flash protest" in front of the local gun registration main office; already happened twice, but apparently this time it'll congregate a LOT more people than the previous ones.

    Meanwhile, State has authorized one of its hospitals to perform the mandatory metal tests. "Funny" detail is that so far only 1 doctor is available for around 250,00 solicitors per year, and there's no indication that more will be available (Like if other 50 or so would make any difference).

    No, we haven't seriously considered moving over there. There's a remote possibility if (Probably more a matter of "when") my wife's job (A transnational retail conglomerate) eventually goes into business in the States with his Home Depot-style stores branch, and if they offer her a good managing position, but nothing to keep us from sleeping.....yet.
  • AntonioAntonio Senior Member Posts: 2,406 Senior Member
    Update boys:

    A new protest has been programed for this Friday night; hope the date & time will congregate more supporters.

    Yesterday official newspaper published a few little changes in our favor, but not enough. Psychological evaluations will also be issued by authorized private health establishments, as it was before this new law, so long lines at public hospitals will disappear.

    Also 9mm Parabellum gun owners who had licenses issued BEFORE this new law won't have to surrender their guns for another 5 years (Hope this administration is out of power by then, but who knows....) and will be able to renew their licenses IF they comply with the still undisclosed parameters.

    The fight continues despite this very, very little victory.
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 9,088 Senior Member
    If Antonio and his Mrs. ever decide to move here they will have no promlems. They both speak very good English and I bet excellent Spanish.
    Now in regards to your issued to keeping legal guns. The 5 year time period is a start to changing such restrictive laws. I wish you and your fellow gun owners luck in your fight.

    Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • AntonioAntonio Senior Member Posts: 2,406 Senior Member
    Thanks guys; idea is tempting, but not in our plans since the only way would be a proper legal immigration process. Will hold up for a while to see the end of this nightmare.

    The 5 year changes nothing. It means that those of us who owned a licensed 9mm pistol before the law could keep it for 5 years more with annual license renovations IF we comply with the currently unknown paperwork; after that, we'll have to surrender to the State or sell it to an active duty police or armed forces member, or face a 20-years sentence for keeping illegal military weapons. Our only hope is that this government has another 3 years in office and then with a new administration, things MIGHT change for good.

    I've decided not to renew all my licenses; next month I'd have to do the paperwork, payments & inspection for at least 8 of them, including my WWI P08 Luger.
    I'll only renew the 3 rifles I use most at local shooting matches and let the others expire 'till a more reasonable period of time is reinstated (It used to be 5 years instead of 1). Will keep doing it for the next renewals due in 2014 & 2015, only updating those I use more so I could also purchase ammo legally. If they force me to renew them or else, I'll probably lose them since you know, I'm kinda clumsy!
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