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Bully-cide?
I just saw a post on FB about how many kids are being bullied to the point of committing suicide. It's nuts! And when did bullying become such an issue?
I was bullied as a kid. I was bigger than everyone, and my father refused to allow me to retaliate. Well one day, someone sucker punched me and i pretty much made the statement that I won't take it anymore. Needless to say, the statement cost the kid a tooth, lots of ice and cotton balls. I never look at it being too much to handle even when I knew I couldn't fight back in fear of my father, I just brushed it off.
Now kids are killing themselves! Bullying is atop the list of concerns among parents, over drugs, alcohol. I don't get it.
My daughters are princesses. No really, they dress up as them after school and play dress up all weekend. But every chance I get, I tell them to ALWAYS stand up for themselves, each other and their friends. I tell my oldest that she is to look out for her younger sister even though the youngest is the mule. And this week, my youngest gets glasses that are permanent, so I pulled her aside, away from mommy, and said that if anyone makes fun of her for wearing glasses, take them off and get in that kids face and say "what!"
I'm not raising brutes, but I don't want my kids to ever feel like they are unworthy, or not good enough, or even feel that anyone has the right to talk down to them. I talk to them all the time about bullying, and tell them that if someone says something mean to them, to just say "haha, didn't work" and walk away with a smile.
What am I missing with the bullying? Are kids a lot softer these days or is it the parents?
I was bullied as a kid. I was bigger than everyone, and my father refused to allow me to retaliate. Well one day, someone sucker punched me and i pretty much made the statement that I won't take it anymore. Needless to say, the statement cost the kid a tooth, lots of ice and cotton balls. I never look at it being too much to handle even when I knew I couldn't fight back in fear of my father, I just brushed it off.
Now kids are killing themselves! Bullying is atop the list of concerns among parents, over drugs, alcohol. I don't get it.
My daughters are princesses. No really, they dress up as them after school and play dress up all weekend. But every chance I get, I tell them to ALWAYS stand up for themselves, each other and their friends. I tell my oldest that she is to look out for her younger sister even though the youngest is the mule. And this week, my youngest gets glasses that are permanent, so I pulled her aside, away from mommy, and said that if anyone makes fun of her for wearing glasses, take them off and get in that kids face and say "what!"
I'm not raising brutes, but I don't want my kids to ever feel like they are unworthy, or not good enough, or even feel that anyone has the right to talk down to them. I talk to them all the time about bullying, and tell them that if someone says something mean to them, to just say "haha, didn't work" and walk away with a smile.
What am I missing with the bullying? Are kids a lot softer these days or is it the parents?
Replies
Catch-22.
Edited to add: I also wonder how many more reports we are getting of this sort of stuff happening when before it would be covered up?
You nailed it Hawker.
In a recent case in Lakeland, FL a girl killed herself because of cyber-bullying. She was mad at the schools for not doing more (when a lot of it happened outside of school time and grounds) and the sheriff's department for not stopping it (when nothing currently illegal was happening.) Sheriff Grady Judd in a press conference said that if your child is getting bullied on their smart phone - get rid of the smart phone. Parents aren't doing what they can, but instead are expecting others to handle the issue.
The days of gallantry are over...don't wait to take the first punch and claim self-defense. I was lucky, I was only bullied once in Jr high and I ended that pretty quickly with a trumpet case to the head. I was pretty diplomatic and smart as a kid and managed to talk my way out most of the times.....but when the time came to stand ground........attack with all you've got. You'd be pretty surprised at the outcome (good).
However, times have changed with the advent of social media........if it was up to me.......Mark Zuckenberg should be hanged for creating Facebook. Cyber-bullying is at an all-time high......kids have no control over themselves, and parents have no control over this...........sad reality.
Teach kids that suicide is copping-out, quitting, being a loser.....it doesn't solve anything...beat the ever living God out of their tormentor short of killing them by whatever means necessary. Channel their anger into something useful, like martial arts.......eventually they will have to learn the dog-eat-dog economics of society if you want them to succeed.
If anything, show your kids what happens when they will become fat, forty, and on Facebook.
This^ is the approach I took with my kids. To assist this concept, my son was in Hapkido from 6 years old until 12. The only time I was ever called into school was when he defended a younger kid from an older bully. He didn't strike the bully, only pinned him to the ground. The principal said, "Officially, I cannot condone what your son did. But, off the record, I want to say thanks for the bully being put in his place." He was not disciplined by the school.
Adam J. McCleod
I'm leaning the blame on the parents. Schools used to never got involved in things that happened outside of school because THAT'S THE PARENTS JOB!
Breamfisher-you're right. Kids are all too connected. Some kids that are friends of the family have over 1000 friends on Facebook. Really? You have over 1000 friends? And where rumors used to be spread via word of mouth are now being factually caught on camera and going viral to a whole school.
I'm not saying not to allow your kids to connect, but some parents don't keep their kids in check.
FUNNY STORY; last year at Lake George there were a set of twins, around my daughters' age. They were a bit rambunctious but they were boys. Well the girls got a laugh out of them, and while we all sat on the lake the kids would run wild before bed. One night when I was in the shower, my littlest came barging into the room and said, "daddy, those two little boys are acting fresh, and Hannah's (her older sister) getting scared, should I punch him in the face"?
That angel I'm not so worried about.
Like I said.......easier to deal with the aftermath.......some situations just need to be dealt with first, apologies later......it's the way of the world. If you don't agree, then you must've been on the losing side.
Two stories:
In 1971 my sister was bullied, but by a teacher! He was the biology teacher and he discovered my sister was squeamish about dissecting. So, one day in class he took some of the dissected pieces of a reptile and placed them against her neck and pretty much turned her into a mess for the rest of the day.
My Mom was a school bus driver for the school. When she found out about it, she barged right into his classroom the next day (I happened to be in class that morning) and marched to the front of the class and pushed him against the blackboard (is that racist?) and stuck a finger in his face and told him that if he ever did anything like that to one of her children again there wouldn't be enough of him left over for the school board to fire!
Mom was sort of a cult hero after that.
I was a slight lad of about 135 pounds. Easily pushed around. I wasn't bullied per se, but no one really got out of my way either. One day, I was acosted in class before school started for the day. The "bully" smacked me around a bit and let me up. I went to the bathroom to stuff some toilet paper in my nose and lip and walked back into the classroom which was pretty full by that time, but the teacher hadn't yet arrived. I picked up a chair and crashed it over the head of the guy who'd smacked me around and knocked him senseless. I had a moment's thought that maybe I'd gone a bit overboard, but he came around.
I spent a little time in the principal's office, but was not sent home and never suspended. This was 1970. I was never troubled by bullies after that. It seemed I had led people to believe I was a little on the crazy side.
Sometimes what kids see on the Web and the computer games they play have drastic effects on their behavior. Like in school shootings.
I think kids are way over-exposed to all the available electronic media at a much too early age. Now former boyfriends/girlfriends/husbands/wives are posting intimate pics of each other to get even over a breakup and CA is passing a law to make that illegal. Adults are involved in it too, but usually are more emotionally mature and don't take drastic actions to hurt themselves or others over it.
Hell, look on here, there have some serious flame-wars/arguments over the years by fully grown men who posted/said hurtful/immature/mean/untrue (or highly opinionated "Facts") things that ended up getting deleted or them banned. We have Forum Moderators to put a stop to it. Most kids have no over-watching except by some social-site software or the few parents who catch on or even understand what's going on.
New technology brings new challenges to us all, like a double edged sword you got to be careful how you use it. I think way too many technological "Advances" are thrown/offered to us before the impact or long term consequences on children and adults are fully understood.
Come on, the worst back when I was in school was writing on the bathroom wall at school saying so and so "Sucks" or Suzy gave "It" up after the school dance. Which was all easily washed off/erased and known by relatively just a few and usually soon forgotten. Now, it's out there for the entire school/world to see to haunt the "Victim".
Physical bullying, sure it goes on, always has and always will, but people aren't able to deal with it like we did growing up. A big stick, big brother or parent usually can't end it without getting you arrested anymore.
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
Sure!..Every kid needs an old man.....
But, I come from a different age
no cell phone or anonymous internet.
Just smoke signals and drums fer you Ned...........:tooth:
I remember two empty soup cans and some string were our "Communications Devices".
CAN YOU HEAR ME.. OVER.......YES I CAN HEAR YOU! :rotflmao::rotflmao:
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
Talking with a few HS principals......they all nod in agreement (since most are in their 40s with kids of their own)........sometimes a kid needs to get his butt handed to him.........but they're not allowed to condone it.
Youngest daughter got off the bus one day in 1st grade, said she needed to tell me something. (Oh no!) Said a kid ( third grader) was messing up her glasses, and wouldn't quit when she told him to stop. So she "hit him, you know, there." (Pointing to the groin region when she said it.) Bus driver never said a thing to her.
I have told them both that I do not want them starting fights, but they can finish all they want to.
My concern is my son is starting to take after me. As of now he is 5 foot 10 and 165 pounds at age 13 and is solid muscle. He is also gaining my mouth and attitude and I highly suspect that in the coming months with school returning that there will be several incidents of him having enough of their abuse and dealing it back in spades. We have already had one small incident at end of last school year where he was being shoulder tackled against his locker and he retaliated by open hand slapping the side of one of these punks head and ringing his bell. In that incident I had to threaten the school with going to the media in regards to the bullying issues in the school due to them wanting to suspend my son for defending himself due to the "zero tolerance policy".
And the **** of America continues.....
I had 2 friends, one gal, one guy, commit suicide because of being bullied. This was in a tough neighborhood, inner city in Kansas City where I was in school. The bullies were expelled from school but they just hung around the neighborhood and stole money and other things from kids walking home from school. They'd beat on kids and they'd gang up too, on one on one fair stuff. These little thugs would be arrested but nothing would ever come from it.
Eventually my two friends broke down, different years, not a pact or anything, they didn't know each other. The boy hanged himself, the girl cut her throat. They both left notes that they couldn't stand the constant harassment although that wasn't the word they used.
We had lots of bullies in my day too. They aren't a new thing. They were vicious and thuggish and also big and strong. A kid my size simply could not go up against them or he'd be beaten senseless.
The idea that bullies are cowards inside is mostly a movie-truth, 99% false in real life. In fact bullies are often quite brave and thuggish and pretty adept at beating up people. A small or non-athletic kid takes on a bully, he gets whupped even worse.
Mild-mannered kids tend to hang together, just as rough kids do with each other. So you aren't gonna get a shy small kid having a big strong kid as protector, either. That's also movie BS although I'm sure it does happen rarely.
The only way to defend from bullies (physical bullies) is with weapons, or taking the case directly to the parents and threatening them. Chancy but it can work. And of course, sometimes the law but too often the bully is detained for 2 hours and then set loose, and he knows who dropped the dime on him. Next time, an even worse beating.
We had a big stupid thug near-teen who was bullying all us smaller and younger kids (10-14 years old), taking all our money and our lunches, our toys, etc. One night I came home with a bruise on my cheek and Dad asked, got the story from me, Dad talked to some other neighbor kids' parents or the kids themselves about this kid. I know for a fact that one night Dad went to the house where the kid lived and chatted with the bully's father (also a bully of course). Next day the kid came around and apologized to us, never bothered us again. I never knew what the "conversation" was that Dad had with the bully father but I suspect it had few words and a 4 and 5 in the caliber category. I know that my Dad was a small man and not much capable of defending himself in a purely physical fight so I doubt he and the bully father had an arm wrestling match.
Another bully at my HS picked on a small, fairly meek kid in metal shop apparently once too often. The kid was small and meek but smart. They had an aluminum forge and one day when the bully was tending the forge, it "somehow" backed up and sprayed molten aluminum in the bully's face. I can still remember the screams. Guy was blinded in one eye, damaged in the other, horribly scarred. After a long hospital stay he was sent to some sort of "disturbed youth" group home. It was never proved whether the forge was sabotaged or who may have done it, although many questions were asked.
Now cyber bullying? That's silly but it's real, but it can also be easily dealt with because there are standards of internet threats that can get someone's login banned. Yes kids these days are computer-social but don't forget what we're doing here -- exactly the same thing.
Yes it's right to teach kids to take some crud and not be too oversensitive however. And maybe kids are somewhat softer nowdays but you can't also expect every kid to be adept at karate or a lean mean fighting machine.
Yes but English common law has the concept of "fighting words" in that the person who makes the first physical strike may not be at fault, and can be legally defending after receiving too much verbal abuse.
And verbal bullying is abusive and hurtful. Words DO hurt and our laws accept that premise.
Bullying has been around for ever. Like many others said, social media has made it so easy to do. We're trying to to provide some help and guidance, but without solid parenting it's hopeless. Like many problems at school (and our nation), with a solid family, they wouldn't exist.
If I had a dollar for every non-teacher who said 'If I was teaching, I'd kick those kid's bvtts into shape. They wouldn't give me any crap!' I'd be a millionaire.
I admit, our schools are not what they used to be, but like society, they're not your daddy's schools anymore. Our country and government aren't what they used to be either, for the same reasons our schools fail at times.
It started with a Federal Government that didn't trust states to educate children. Then states didn't trust communities to educate children. Then families don't trust the schools or teachers.
Public education has always been the great scapegoat for families that no longer want to be accountable. It used to take a village to raise a child. Now the village turns their back and says 'That's the school's job.....'
JMO
Bellcat
I'm not necessarily indicting individual teachers....I'm indicting the system...
You're talking about a system that kicks kids out of school for holding their thumb and forefinger in a particular manner....sheer idiocy
Jerry
We often tend to have "Bruce Willis solutions" for many problems -- blow up the bad guys, kick butt, etc. But in fact the law prevents us from doing all these fantasy things, tempting as they might seem.
The small kid who turns on the bully and puts him in his place is mostly a fantasy. Big kids can usually beat up smaller kids, and being morally right doesn't help one whit, unfortunately.
Bullies are brutal and like doing brutish things. Yeah, there's that 1% situation where the TV-fantasy bully gets punched once, and cries, and turns tail. Ain't gonna happen 99% of the time.
We had plenty of bullies when I was a kid and they were a constant problem for small kids like me, or girls. We were simply physically unable to fight these much larger kids. And I mean myself as maybe 12-13 years old, the bully being a large 18 year old, twice my size and strong, too.
Parents of bullied kids often don't know or don't appreciate the stress or agony they go through. We're a gun forum and many of us have concealed permits, and arm ourselves for the exact same reason that smaller kids are in peril -- we don't wish to be pushed around by street thugs. But we can fix that with a .40cal and the 12 year old kid headed to school can't even have a knife or pepper spray because it's not allowed to carry there.
So the kid is stuck. Parents therefore need to be in synch with their kids, not copter parents but responsive in a sensible way, and if the kid is bullied, the parents need to raise hell with the school and cops until the noise they make gets results. And cyberbullies can be dealt with by the lawsuit threat, getting the bully's parent's net ID locked out.
Bullying is real and it's a difficult problem. Bell is right, that parents say "I'd fix their wagon!" but what would that really mean? Punching a tough guy 15year old? That gets you jail, pal, and you lose your teaching creds too. Adults just can't "fix" a bully physically -- it has to be done via the cops mostly.
And sure, a responsible parent cannot go nuts if his kid is harassed a couple times, name called, maybe a random snowball. But serious bullying is different. That kid has to be chased home and caught (big guys are also faster) then sat on or roughed up, all their money stolen, clothes torn, and it happens EVERY DAMN DAY! That's waaay beyond the idea to "tough it up, kid".