Defunding Obama Care ain't gonna happen

Big ChiefBig Chief Senior MemberPosts: 32,995 Senior Member
The Senate will never pass it and the stupid Republicans are gonna get blamed for shutting down the Govt if it goes that far. They need to separate the Obama Care funding debate from the budget bill.

How many bills/resolutions has the House of Reps passed so far that don't mean jack, they are DOA at the Senate.

I say fix our budget, keep working on it wherever they can and work on reform to Obama Care later. The Tea Party is eating mushrooms again. Sure it is a train-wreck and is hard to implement and will cost us all, but they have snowballs chance in hell:devil: of having it defunded right now.

The only way any sensible changes will be made to it are if the mid-term elections go heavy to Republicans and a Republican president is elected in 2016.

I don't think it will ever just go away anytime soon, but see modifications, reforms and incremental changes.

Sure they can make a statement, has that ever stopped Obammy or the Dems from doing anything they can get away with in the past?

If the Govt is shut down a lot of folks on both sides will suffer and it surely will be remembered on election day(s) to come. Balancing the budget/debates are all good intentions, but you piss off voters and look like the evil, mean and uncaring ones who made their lives miserable, deserving or not you will lose votes.

Time for a reality check.

This will play into the Dems hands AGAIN if they aren't careful..how does president Hillary sound to y'all?
It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!

Replies

  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,195 Senior Member
    If the government goes into shutdown mode and the Republicans keep tilting a windmill they can't beat under current conditions....

    Be prepared for Democrat wins in the mid-terms, and possibly a Democrat to win the Presidency in 2016.

    Now is not the time for the Republicans to die on the healthcare hill. Right now they're doing Charge of the Light Brigade-level political suicide, in my opinion.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,726 Senior Member
    I disagree. Most of the House and quite a few Senators were elected specifically to get rid of Obamacare. I want the House to do what they were elected to do, and those Senators who have the balls, to filibuster. If they tuck tail now, they will definitely lose the House. They have the support of the majority of people - they just have to overcome the slander that is coming their way in another all-out media blitz to blame them for shutting down the government. With the media against them, I understand that their choices are merely going to be which 'hill' to die on - I think this is the one.
  • shootbrownelkshootbrownelk Senior Member Posts: 2,026 Senior Member
    If the Government is shut down it'll be the Republicans blamed, they're shooting themselves in the foot. Better to let "Obamacare" pass and let the Democrats take the blame when the folks find out what a train-wreck Obamacare really is. If they pursue this defunding, they'll take a beating in the mid-terms. It seems the Republicans are politically suicidal.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,726 Senior Member
    If the Government is shut down it'll be the Republicans blamed, they're shooting themselves in the foot. Better to let "Obamacare" pass and let the Democrats take the blame when the folks find out what a train-wreck Obamacare really is. If they pursue this defunding, they'll take a beating in the mid-terms. It seems the Republicans are politically suicidal.

    Obamacare has already passed, yet Obama was re-elected anyway. Republicans need to understand that they will be blamed anyway, for everything, as long as the media is as corrupt as the Democrat Party. So, they might as well take a stand and actually try to win - they won't be ripped any worse than they would be, anyway, whether on Obamacare or the next issue on the table. And, anyway, they cannot win without their conservative base, as the last presidential race proved, and if they cave in on this, they will begin losing that base.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    What's the alternative? Let the professional RINO politicians keep selling us down the river to the dummycraps? I'm supporting the Tea Party challenger for Lamar Alexander's Tennessee senate seat this time around. He's been there since we rode dinosaurs and wrote on clay tablets, and he's been in bed with the Washington insiders for a great deal of that time. We need more, not less conservative involvement in governing ourselves. The professional pols are all cut from the same cloth, regardless of the letter behind their names! All the RINO's and as many dummycraps as possible need to be put out to pasture. Either use the ballot box or whatever means are necessary, but some major changes need to be made, and soon!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,195 Senior Member
    If Republicans are going to die let them die on principles, not going along to get along. I'm sick of Neocons like Karl Rove and his ilk running the Republican party anyway. This is the reason we keep electing Republicans with a progressive bend and not true conservatives. Examples of Neocons: Karl Rove, G.W. Bush, G.H.W. Bush, John McCain, Lindsey Graham, Rudy Juliani, Bill O'Reilly, Lamaar Alexander, Chris Christie, John Boehner, Mitt Romney, Richard Nixon, Jeb Bush and there are many, many more. All statist, globalist, foreign country-medaling hacks.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    Keeping in mind that many of these Repubs were elected on promises to derail Obamcare and that their mail is still running 100s to 1 in favor of doing so i don't see that they have much choice.
    They get blamed for everything anyway. And Obamacare is a train wreck. Here's the latest evidence:

    http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/09/18/citing-obamacare-cleveland-clinic-to-cut-300m-warns-of-layoffs And this is just one of many. Look at all the exemptions granted for "Friends of Obama". Even the unions want out.

    On a personal note, my step daughter works for a large national pharmacy chain. She's been notified that they're going the exchange route. Lot's of uncertainty there.

    Then there are all the people who's hours have been cut over this.
    I just don't think Obamacare is as popular on the street as many people believe. And i think as it continues to be rolled out, whatever popularity it may have will drop further.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • SlanteyedshootistSlanteyedshootist Senior Member Posts: 3,947 Senior Member
    Bush is to blame.:yikes:
    The answer to 1984 is 1776
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,351 Senior Member
    Then there are all the people who's hours have been cut over this.
    My step daughters are trying to make ends meet with 30 hour a week or less jobs as a direct result of Obamacare. Office visits mysteriously jumped from $90 to $120 in the last 3 years since this law passed. My health insurance jumped $150 a month due to them having to lift the $3 million cap to unlimited and "free" annual physicals. Now I will have to start paying for "free" birth control (wife's tubes are tied-- back in the day, birth control was called condoms) and all the other "free" stuff.

    Obamacare has been a disaster. We do need healthcare reform, but this was the wrong way to do it.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,884 Senior Member
    Shut it down!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • shootbrownelkshootbrownelk Senior Member Posts: 2,026 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    Obamacare has already passed, yet Obama was re-elected anyway. Republicans need to understand that they will be blamed anyway, for everything, as long as the media is as corrupt as the Democrat Party. So, they might as well take a stand and actually try to win - they won't be ripped any worse than they would be, anyway, whether on Obamacare or the next issue on the table. And, anyway, they cannot win without their conservative base, as the last presidential race proved, and if they cave in on this, they will begin losing that base.

    I meant funded, not passed. I know it's the law.
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    It may be the law. But so was Slavery at one time. Or more recently DOMA. If any of you guys have a Democratic Senator, especially one up for reelection, I hope you've been carpet bombing him/her over this. It worked on mine on the background check thing.
    And since when have the progs given a damn what the law was when the law was in the way of their agenda? Or the Constitution itself for that matter.

    But Obama is already out there speechifying about how the Republicans are like children and are going to crash the economy. Nice Mr. Prezzo, real nice way to deal with the peoples elected reps.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,930 Senior Member
    If the Government is shut down it'll be the Republicans blamed, they're shooting themselves in the foot. Better to let "Obamacare" pass and let the Democrats take the blame when the folks find out what a train-wreck Obamacare really is. If they pursue this defunding, they'll take a beating in the mid-terms. It seems the Republicans are politically suicidal.

    Well I just saw that the House voted to defund O-Care. But I think if they would have let it pass then you're right the Dummycraps would have gotten blamed and lost their butts in elections. However then there would be the job of getting rid of O-Care because it wouldn't work. That would have been no small task. When people get an entitlement they don't like to give it up.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,788 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    My step daughters are trying to make ends meet with 30 hour a week or less jobs as a direct result of Obamacare. Office visits mysteriously jumped from $90 to $120 in the last 3 years since this law passed. My health insurance jumped $150 a month due to them having to lift the $3 million cap to unlimited and "free" annual physicals. Now I will have to start paying for "free" birth control (wife's tubes are tied-- back in the day, birth control was called condoms) and all the other "free" stuff.

    Obamacare has been a disaster. We do need healthcare reform, but this was the wrong way to do it.

    I agree Ocare has plenty of issues and the 30 hour cap is a major one. I have s good friend in the same situation as your daughters. However I don't really know the answer. People need healthcare and very few of the low paid hourly jobs that make up a huge and growing portion of our economy provide any benefits at all and virtually no one who's working those jobs can afford private insurance. Something has got to give.

    The friend of mine mentioned above and many of his friends (some of whom are homeless) use the emergency room for basic care (and they go frequently) since they don't have to pay. How much do you think that's costing all of us with insurance?
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,328 Senior Member
    they don't have to pay.

    There's one of the problems. Anyone who has a job can pay something. 5 people paying $20/month is $100 more than nothing. You receive services, you should pay something. Unemployed, different story. If you don't have an income, you don't have money to pay. As soon as you start making money, you start paying money.

    Living down here on the border, I can tell you how frustrating it is to pay so much, only to watch illegals using the ER all day every day and never paying a dime.

    Like every other socialist program, Obamacare will break the backs of all working people to pay for those who won't provide for themselves.
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    I agree Ocare has plenty of issues and the 30 hour cap is a major one. I have s good friend in the same situation as your daughters. However I don't really know the answer. People need healthcare and very few of the low paid hourly jobs that make up a huge and growing portion of our economy provide any benefits at all and virtually no one who's working those jobs can afford private insurance. Something has got to give.

    The friend of mine mentioned above and many of his friends (some of whom are homeless) use the emergency room for basic care (and they go frequently) since they don't have to pay. How much do you think that's costing all of us with insurance?

    I thought O'care was supposed to provide those lower income folks with subsidies. So they could go to the so called exchanges and purchase insurance. But I could be wrong. Who amongst us understands this behemoth of a law.
    When you say, "Somethings got to give", I can tell you one thing that needs to give. In my state, the latest figures available show that about 65 percent of all live births are paid for by Medicaid. They do not track how many are repeat births by by the same women.
    When we bought this house I took a sample of the well water to the Health dept. for testing. This is the same place you go for Medicaid. There must have been at least 100 young girls, hugely pregnant. I didn't see anything that looked like a husband. Perhaps all those guys were at work. Let's hope so. It was total chaos. I asked the clueless clerk if this was free stuff day or something. She said no, it's like this everyday.
    So how about this gives. Instead of the government running ads about how to sign up for free stuff, including those they run in Mexico. They spend money on a massive reeducation program about how ain't nobody gonna take care of you except you. Now obviously if you can't; we will. And this does not include retirees on SS or veterans or the truly disabled.

    Since the War on Poverty began the government has incentivised indolence and single motherhood. A sure path to poverty.

    And Poverty as defined by our government usually includes, Central heat and air, a car, a dishwasher, at least one TV, cable, free cell phones and on it goes.
    you're a smart guy, compare what our poor here have to what the average have in the EU. Not their poor but Average.
    Seriously, compare all that.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,930 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    What's the alternative? Let the professional RINO politicians keep selling us down the river to the dummycraps? I'm supporting the Tea Party challenger for Lamar Alexander's Tennessee senate seat this time around. He's been there since we rode dinosaurs and wrote on clay tablets, and he's been in bed with the Washington insiders for a great deal of that time. We need more, not less conservative involvement in governing ourselves. The professional pols are all cut from the same cloth, regardless of the letter behind their names! All the RINO's and as many dummycraps as possible need to be put out to pasture. Either use the ballot box or whatever means are necessary, but some major changes need to be made, and soon!
    Jerry

    Guys like Alexander and Boener were at one time solid conservatives. But as things change and the world becomes more liberal, these guys think they have to slip a little left to keep their place in Washington. I am not a big term limits person just for the sake of term limits. Ron Paul, love him or hate him, never moved off his base. And he kept getting elected even though he stayed his old conservative self. These guys that give in need to go. The ones that have the balls to stand their conservative ground I don't care if they've been in office 40 years, as long as they don't cnange I will vote for them.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,930 Senior Member
    I know I always say that I will vote for the lesser of evils, and I will when that's the choice. Because I feel a Rino is better than a Dummycrat, if for no other reason is they know what is right and wrong even though if push comes to shove they'll cave. But You know how a dummycrap is going to vote. So I will take the lesser of the evils.

    Also, I said that the House voted to defund Obama Care. Well that's not quite true. They just didn't include it in their budget. It will do the same thing, but the problem we'll get into will be the Senate. I think if the Senate caves, and puts it in there version of the budget, the house will end up caving to.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    The House has done exactly what I hoped. The specifically deleted Obamacare from their budget bill but passed 100% of the remainder. This places a firm focus on Obamacare and allows "blame" for a shutdown to be pushed on the Demos.

    Yes, the press will blame the Republicans but they always do that anyway, so there will be no real loss. It's like taking an anti-radical islamic stand and being threatened by "violence against Israel", but the radicals ALREADY want to destroy Israel and do what they can to effect that, so it doesn't matter.

    I have emailed my congressman, conservative Ted Poe, and thanked him for his vote on this issue.

    I DO NOT CARE if the press blames Republicans. They'll blame Reps anyway so what does it matter? Go for the target, and stay with the issue of defunding Obamacare.

    Passing the other budget intact except for Obamacare is a smart move -- it puts the issue of "shutdown" (it's happened before and isn't a biggie regardless) into the Demo's laps.

    Junk brained voters will vote Demo ANYWAY. The press will blame Republicans ANYWAY. So why not go for the real thing and press the issue?

    At least the Republican vote in the House isn't being a Rino. It shows the genuine conservative slant and that's what we want.

    I actually think that standing for something will HELP the conservative in the 2014 elections. And if it doesn't, well, tell me something that WOULD help -- kowtowing to the Demos? I think not.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • tv_racin_fantv_racin_fan Senior Member Posts: 617 Senior Member
    I agree Ocare has plenty of issues and the 30 hour cap is a major one. I have s good friend in the same situation as your daughters. However I don't really know the answer. People need healthcare and very few of the low paid hourly jobs that make up a huge and growing portion of our economy provide any benefits at all and virtually no one who's working those jobs can afford private insurance. Something has got to give.

    The friend of mine mentioned above and many of his friends (some of whom are homeless) use the emergency room for basic care (and they go frequently) since they don't have to pay. How much do you think that's costing all of us with insurance?

    I'm still waiting on someone to explain to me how someone who can not afford a healthcare insurance policy today is going to be able to spend $200+ a month on a healthcare policy that the govt is going to subsidize with a tax credit between enrollment day and tax return day. Where is this $200+ going to come from? Housing budget? Or food budget?

    Is the healthcare subsidy going to be a refundable credit so that their tax return is going to be that much bigger or is it going to be a normal tax deduction such that their tax return is going to be the same as it would have been without the healthcare subsidy?
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,351 Senior Member
    I guess people are supposed to be able to get the "subsidy" right away to pay for their insurance.

    But to answer Alpha's question regarding the homeless people using the ER because they don't have insurance and don't have to pay the hospital bill, I have another question... How has Obamacare changed their situation? If they are homeless, odds are that they would have been eligible for free Medicaid anyway. So with Obamacare, they will now again be eligible for Medicaid. The working poor? So they either get most of their insurance subsidized or they too qualify for free Medicaid. Their hours are held down to 30 per week. What now? They need food stamps because they can't work enough hours to feed themselves. They only way I ever made ends meet when I worked at restaurants was to work 50-60 hours a week. Now people can't even work 40 hours! When I went to college full time, I cut my hours down to "just" 40 hours. In other words, I had a pathway to get ahead in life by working long hard hours and it was available to anyone that had the ambition. With Obamacare, that pathway is gone.

    I just see it all as creating a downward spiral of government dependency. I can see the merit in helping folks get on their feet, but this all looks like it is doing the opposite. It keeps people down in a permanent underclass. In that situation, the rich continue to get rich and the poor continue to get poorer so it preserves a permanent elite in our society under the guise of "social justice". It looks more like a social injustice to me. Almost like a caste system.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,930 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    The House has done exactly what I hoped. The specifically deleted Obamacare from their budget bill but passed 100% of the remainder. This places a firm focus on Obamacare and allows "blame" for a shutdown to be pushed on the Demos.

    Yes, the press will blame the Republicans but they always do that anyway, so there will be no real loss. It's like taking an anti-radical islamic stand and being threatened by "violence against Israel", but the radicals ALREADY want to destroy Israel and do what they can to effect that, so it doesn't matter.

    I have emailed my congressman, conservative Ted Poe, and thanked him for his vote on this issue.

    I DO NOT CARE if the press blames Republicans. They'll blame Reps anyway so what does it matter? Go for the target, and stay with the issue of defunding Obamacare.

    Passing the other budget intact except for Obamacare is a smart move -- it puts the issue of "shutdown" (it's happened before and isn't a biggie regardless) into the Demo's laps.

    Junk brained voters will vote Demo ANYWAY. The press will blame Republicans ANYWAY. So why not go for the real thing and press the issue?

    At least the Republican vote in the House isn't being a Rino. It shows the genuine conservative slant and that's what we want.

    I actually think that standing for something will HELP the conservative in the 2014 elections. And if it doesn't, well, tell me something that WOULD help -- kowtowing to the Demos? I think not.

    Sam, you are speaking a lot of truth here. We have backed down way too much. That's how rinos got to be rinos. They backed down from issues they thought would hurt them if they stood up to them. Well enough is enough! Time to put on the gloves and be men, not sheep.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
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