7th-grader suspended for playing with airsoft gun in own yard

Big ChiefBig Chief Senior MemberPosts: 32,995 Senior Member
The school board needs to suspend the adult **** who decided he was in "Possession" :angry::angry:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/09/24/7th-grader-suspended-for-playing-with-airsoft-gun-in-own-yard/?intcmp=latestnews


A seventh-grade student in Virginia Beach, Va., has been suspended from school for playing with an airsoft gun with a friend in his front yard while waiting for the school bus.

WAVY-TV reports that 13-year-old Khalid Caraballo will find out soon if he will be expelled for "possession, handling and use of a firearm" because the guns were fired at two others playing in Caraballo's yard.

A neighbor saw Khalid shooting the airsoft gun in his yard and called 911, telling the dispatcher, "He is pointing the gun, and it looks like there's a target in a tree in his front yard," the station reported.

Khalid claims he never took the toy gun to the designated bus stop or Larkspur Middle School, according to the report. Two other students who fired guns were also suspended.

In a letter obtained by WAVY.com, school principal Matthew Delaney found that the "children were firing pellet guns at each other, and at people near the bus stop." Delaney states in the letter that one child "was only 10 feet from the bus stop, and ran from the shots being fired, but was still hit."

The school's so-called "zero-tolerance" policy on guns extends to private property, according to the report.

Khalid's mother, Solangel Caraballo, said it's ridiculous that her son and his friends were suspended because they were firing the airsoft gun on private property.

"My son is my private property. He does not become the school's property until he goes to the bus stop, gets on the bus, and goes to school," Caraballo told the station.

Khalid told WAVY-TV he thinks the punishment is unfair and may hurt his chances of getting into a good college after graduating from high school.

"It's on your school record. The school said I had possession of a firearm. They aren't going to ask me any questions. They are going to think it was a real gun, and I was trying to hurt someone," he said.
It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
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Replies

  • MississippiBoyMississippiBoy Senior Member Posts: 819 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    The school's so-called "zero-tolerance" policy on guns extends to private property, according to the report.

    You have GOT to be kidding.....:bang:
  • JLDickmonJLDickmon Senior Member Posts: 1,726 Senior Member
    this is just flat-[backside or 'a donkey'] gettin' outta hand...
    Never laugh at your wife's choices.
    You are one of them.
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 8,669 Senior Member
    If this child is suspended, each school board member of that district needs to be voted out of office, principle fired, and person that called 911 charged with making a false report. This BS needs to stop, it has more than gotten out of hand.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,743 Senior Member
    One detail was a bit fuzzy there. If they were shooting eachother that's one thing, but if they were shooting the other kids at the bus stop (sounds like they were) then I can understand the suspension. If you've ever been shot with a decently powerful aisoft gun it'll leave a pretty good mark and isn't exactly pleasant. Being 7th graders and remembering how kids that age tend to act, I'm thinking the other kids probably became the targets.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,604 Senior Member
    One detail was a bit fuzzy there. If they were shooting eachother that's one thing, but if they were shooting the other kids at the bus stop (sounds like they were) then I can understand the suspension. If you've ever been shot with a decently powerful aisoft gun it'll leave a pretty good mark and isn't exactly pleasant. Being 7th graders and remembering how kids that age tend to act, I'm thinking the other kids probably became the targets.
    That is what I was thinking, and if its true, I agree.

    But -

    Remembering what Mark Twain said about school boards...
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 9,559 Senior Member
    For kids to put on the proper gear and play airsoft is one thing. If they are shooting kids at the bus stop, that is another. Wouldn't call 911, but I would be having a talk with their parents.
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 9,729 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    The school's so-called "zero-tolerance" policy on guns extends to private property, according to the report.

    No, it DOES NOT! So, according to this, a kid going hunting can be expelled?
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • roadkingroadking Senior Member Posts: 3,056 Senior Member
    Stupidity runs amok...in fact, now a days, it gallops!

    Matt
    Support your local Scouts!
  • agewonagewon Senior Member Posts: 655 Senior Member
    One detail was a bit fuzzy there. If they were shooting eachother that's one thing, but if they were shooting the other kids at the bus stop (sounds like they were) then I can understand the suspension. If you've ever been shot with a decently powerful aisoft gun it'll leave a pretty good mark and isn't exactly pleasant. Being 7th graders and remembering how kids that age tend to act, I'm thinking the other kids probably became the targets.

    I'm with you on this. HOWEVER, the only thing the school should have done is called a conference with the parents of the students involved.
    Two other issues I saw; one was with the mother saying her son was only the schools "property" when on school property and secondly where some panel of bureaucrats can tell me what my kid can and can't do on MY property?
    The only thing the school had the right to do was call in the parents for a conference and make them aware of the situation. Schools are responsible for my kids when they are in a school or on a school bus. Period. End of story.
    That being said, those parents should whoop some arse for those kids bringing that air soft gun around others.
  • agewonagewon Senior Member Posts: 655 Senior Member
    One detail was a bit fuzzy there. If they were shooting eachother that's one thing, but if they were shooting the other kids at the bus stop (sounds like they were) then I can understand the suspension. If you've ever been shot with a decently powerful aisoft gun it'll leave a pretty good mark and isn't exactly pleasant. Being 7th graders and remembering how kids that age tend to act, I'm thinking the other kids probably became the targets.

    I'm with you on this. HOWEVER, the only thing the school should have done is called a conference with the parents of the students involved.
    Two other issues I saw; one was with the mother saying her son was only the schools "property" when on school property and secondly where some panel of bureaucrats can tell me what my kid can and can't do on MY property?
    The only thing the school had the right to do was call in the parents for a conference and make them aware of the situation. Schools are responsible for my kids when they are in a school or on a school bus. Period. End of story.
    That being said, those parents should whoop some arse for those kids bringing that air soft gun around others.
  • bobbyrlf3bobbyrlf3 Senior Member Posts: 2,467 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    No, it DOES NOT! So, according to this, a kid going hunting can be expelled?

    My thoughts exactly.
    Knowledge is essential to living freely and fully; understanding gives knowledge purpose and strength; wisdom is combining the two and applying them appropriately in words and actions.
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,731 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    No, it DOES NOT! So, according to this, a kid going hunting can be expelled?

    Yes. Google Gary Tudesko of Willows HS.
    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    Yes. Google Gary Tudesko of Willows HS.

    Okay, i did: http://www.norcalblogs.com/postscripts/2010/01/26/tedesco-expulsion-reverse/

    The principal is/was an idiot and should have to undergo some type of retraining. But he is far from alone on the knee jerk reaction that all guns are scary, inherently dangerous and used only to commit crimes.
    I think that 1000 feet thing may have been overturned by the SCOTUS. not sure on that though.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,609 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    The school board needs to suspend the adult **** who decided he was in "Possession" :angry::angry:

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/09/24/7th-grader-suspended-for-playing-with-airsoft-gun-in-own-yard/?intcmp=latestnews


    A seventh-grade student in Virginia Beach, Va., has been suspended from school for playing with an airsoft gun with a friend in his front yard while waiting for the school bus.

    WAVY-TV reports that 13-year-old Khalid Caraballo will find out soon if he will be expelled for "possession, handling and use of a firearm" because the guns were fired at two others playing in Caraballo's yard.

    A neighbor saw Khalid shooting the airsoft gun in his yard and called 911, telling the dispatcher, "He is pointing the gun, and it looks like there's a target in a tree in his front yard," the station reported.

    Khalid claims he never took the toy gun to the designated bus stop or Larkspur Middle School, according to the report. Two other students who fired guns were also suspended.

    In a letter obtained by WAVY.com, school principal Matthew Delaney found that the "children were firing pellet guns at each other, and at people near the bus stop." Delaney states in the letter that one child "was only 10 feet from the bus stop, and ran from the shots being fired, but was still hit."

    The school's so-called "zero-tolerance" policy on guns extends to private property, according to the report.

    Khalid's mother, Solangel Caraballo, said it's ridiculous that her son and his friends were suspended because they were firing the airsoft gun on private property.

    "My son is my private property. He does not become the school's property until he goes to the bus stop, gets on the bus, and goes to school," Caraballo told the station.

    Khalid told WAVY-TV he thinks the punishment is unfair and may hurt his chances of getting into a good college after graduating from high school.

    "It's on your school record. The school said I had possession of a firearm. They aren't going to ask me any questions. They are going to think it was a real gun, and I was trying to hurt someone," he said.
    I definitely fell the need to comment on this incident. However, it is complicated. The first thing is the schools statement that Khalid may be expelled for "possession, handling and use of a firearm" because the guns were fired at two others playing in Caraballo's yard. I did some research and Virginia's definition of a firearm is a device that propels a "missile" by means of an explosion. This would include cartridge and muzzle loading weapons. An airsoft gun does not qualify as a firearm. Virginia does prohibit any device capable of propelling a "missile" from school property. The school's so-called "zero-tolerance" policy on guns extends to private property, according to the report. ! They need to get off the hard drugs! The school is apparently trying to claim the bus stop is school property. No. School bus stops are on public sidewalks or roadsides. School busses are commonly considered school property. In this case that does not apply. Having got all of that out of the way. I purchased my own Daisy Cub BB gun at the age of 8 y/o for $1.75 with my parents permission. I was then schooled by my father in "firearms safety". I was allowed to shoot targets in our semi rural area, we were on 1/2 acre with a small orchard and garden area out back. There was 8 acres of fields to the south and 10 acres to the east. If I would have shot at neighbor kids or pets. I would have had my butt blistered with my BB gun. It would then have gone to the garbage can. Heavy emphasis on gone. Khalid's Mom does not seem to get it. The front yard near the school bus stop is not the best choice for your kid and others (are they wearing eye protection)? to be playing airsoft wars. If they are shooting at other kids who are not voluntarily participating in the airsoft wars it is beyond wrong! If the Mother allowed her son to do this she is the one in the wrong. Her whining at the school ruining her kids life is ludicrous. She should have some "wall to wall" counseling! You know what I mean Big Chief Of course we can't do that.
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,458 Senior Member
    IF the kid was shooting the airsoft gun (heretofore described as 'toy') at other children (IOW kids NOT playing airsoft), at people waiting at the bus stop, taking the toy on the bus, taking the toy to school, or in any other way abusing the privilege of owning such a toy, then yes, there should be punishment of some sort up to and including suspension/expulsion depending on WHERE the 'offense' occurred. However, at no point in the article did the reporter even REMOTELY suggest that the kids were doing anything of the sort, despite the principal's assertion that: "One child was only ten feet from the bus stop". Barring evidence that the kids WERE doing something of the sort, the school WAY overstepped their reach and whoever came up with the asinine idea to suspend or expel the boy needs to be fired immediately. 'Retraining' is not an option. I see no reason the school should have been involved at all, let alone the sole arbiter of justice in this case. In fact, I'm a little concerned that the school was informed at all. How is it that the school is privy to this knowledge in the first place? WHY were they informed?
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • bobbyrlf3bobbyrlf3 Senior Member Posts: 2,467 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    Yes. Google Gary Tudesko of Willows HS.

    While I understand using this case as an example, I don't think it fits because Gary Tedesco was parked on a public street within 1k ft. of a school (against the law, apparently), whereas Khalid Caraballo is alleged to have been shooting on private property. I think the case hinges on whether the allegations of shooting at other kids at the bus stop can be proven.
    In any case, I agree with coolgunguy that the school should not be the sole arbiter of justice in this case. I think the principal is egregiously overstepping his authority.
    Knowledge is essential to living freely and fully; understanding gives knowledge purpose and strength; wisdom is combining the two and applying them appropriately in words and actions.
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,731 Senior Member
    bobbyrlf3 wrote: »
    While I understand using this case as an example, I don't think it fits because Gary Tedesco was parked on a public street within 1k ft. of a school (against the law, apparently), whereas Khalid Caraballo is alleged to have been shooting on private property. I think the case hinges on whether the allegations of shooting at other kids at the bus stop can be proven.
    In any case, I agree with coolgunguy that the school should not be the sole arbiter of justice in this case. I think the principal is egregiously overstepping his authority.

    Gary Tudesko's expulsion was eventually overturned because there is no 1000 ft rule and he was NOT on school property or at a school event.
    In addition to reversing the Willows Unified School District board's decision, the county trustees ordered Tudesko's expulsion be removed from the school record. It also ordered "any costs incurred by the pupil or his parents be reimbursed by the district.
    The county board ruled the district had "acted in excess of its jurisdiction" because the act "did not occur on school grounds or at a school activity."

    Commentary after the Trustee's decision:

    The decision "has left me dumbfounded, almost speechless," he said.
    The county board "is undermining our authority. They are definitely saying we don't have jurisdiction off campus," he complained.

    These people actually believe that they have unlimited jurisdiction over everyone's children.


    http://www.willows-journal.com/articles/school-4185-willows-tudesko.html
    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,604 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    These people actually believe that they have unlimited jurisdiction over everyone's children.
    That is indeed becoming the case with schools - and employers too, thinking they control their employee's lives after quitting time.

    It needs to be stopped.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,609 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    Gary Tudesko's expulsion was eventually overturned because there is no 1000 ft rule and he was NOT on school property or at a school event.



    Commentary after the Trustee's decision:




    These people actually believe that they have unlimited jurisdiction over everyone's children.


    http://www.willows-journal.com/articles/school-4185-willows-tudesko.html
    So far I have failed to find a repeal or amendment of the "People's Republic of California" school zone act (1995) which would require the firearm to be stored in a locked case or vehicle trunk to be legal within 1,000 feet of school property.
  • bobbyrlf3bobbyrlf3 Senior Member Posts: 2,467 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    Gary Tudesko's expulsion was eventually overturned because there is no 1000 ft rule and he was NOT on school property or at a school event.

    So doesn't that demonstrate that bullsi's point is valid, that the school doesn't have jurisdiction over student activities on private property?
    Knowledge is essential to living freely and fully; understanding gives knowledge purpose and strength; wisdom is combining the two and applying them appropriately in words and actions.
  • 5280 shooter II5280 shooter II Senior Member Posts: 3,923 Senior Member
    From what I heard about it today.....little snots were shooting pellet guns (didn't know they were airsoft) at each other in their yard, but then shot at kids around the bus stop.....in which case it becomes an assault charge.....this is a police matter, not a school board's matter......and the mother should be charged for reckless endangerment in proxy for her brat......at the most.
    God show's mercy on drunks and dumb animals.........two outa three ain't a bad score!
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 9,729 Senior Member
    From what I heard about it today.....little snots were shooting pellet guns (didn't know they were airsoft) at each other in their yard, but then shot at kids around the bus stop.....in which case it becomes an assault charge.....this is a police matter, not a school board's matter......and the mother should be charged for reckless endangerment in proxy for her brat......at the most.

    That's what I just heard as well. But yes- it should now be a police matter since they were shooting kids that were not in the game. And, if the world worked the way it USED to, the parents of the victims would refuse to press charges, as long as the parents of the little twerps tanned his hide and made him mow the victims yard for a month.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,731 Senior Member
    sgtrock21 wrote: »
    So far I have failed to find a repeal or amendment of the "People's Republic of California" school zone act (1995) which would require the firearm to be stored in a locked case or vehicle trunk to be legal within 1,000 feet of school property.

    It was repealed. I held an FFL 2000-2007 on the same block as an elementary school. This was approved by the BATFE, CADOJ, and LA County Sheriffs.
    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,731 Senior Member
    bobbyrlf3 wrote: »
    So doesn't that demonstrate that bullsi's point is valid, that the school doesn't have jurisdiction over student activities on private property?

    They district still expelled Gary and is dumbfounded why the expulsion was overturned. That was one case at one school. Results WILL vary.
    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,425 Senior Member
    Slight thread drift- - - - -kids shooting airsoft guns at each other is a whiz-poor idea. My grandson who just graduated Marine boot camp almost lost an eye courtesy of an airsoft pistol. After spending all day at the Southeast Shoot, and handling all sorts of deadly stuff safely, Debby's kids got into a play battle with their new airsofts that a shoot participant had given them. Robert's stepsister, Tracy, nailed him in the right eye at close range (no eye protection). It very nearly blinded him, and I don't think there are any one-eyed Marines! If you or your kids use airsoft guns, be aware they have the potential to do some pretty serious injuries!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • agewonagewon Senior Member Posts: 655 Senior Member
    Not saying this Is what happened at the shoot, but some parents are buying these toys for their kids thinking they're like nerf guns. Anything that shoots a projectile should come with some parental instruction.
    Last year at a pool party, some little bastage was sneaking up on kids with a water cannon and blasting them in the face. I didnt know the kid or the parents but I grabbed the kids father and warned him that if he got near one of my girls we'd have an issue. Surprised at what his kid was doing, he ran over, grabbed the kid by the ear and dragged him out. I don't blame the kid in that case, because the parents obviously never told him not to aim at anyone's face or even supervised him.
  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,609 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    It was repealed. I held an FFL 2000-2007 on the same block as an elementary school. This was approved by the BATFE, CADOJ, and LA County Sheriffs.
    Thank you for the good news.
  • 5280 shooter II5280 shooter II Senior Member Posts: 3,923 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    If you or your kids use airsoft guns, be aware they have the potential to do some pretty serious injuries!
    Jerry

    :that: I have a fully automatic airsoft gun in the above 500 fps range that I used to pester invading squirrels with rather than killing them......guess what, it'll kill birds.
    God show's mercy on drunks and dumb animals.........two outa three ain't a bad score!
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,855 Senior Member
    Hey, I'm all for the 2nd A, but from what I read here this is not a purely 2A issue. If this kid was shooting at people with a PEA SHOOTER he's not being a nice guy. And like 5280 Shooter said, this thing will kill birds. Well if it will kill birds I would imagine it would break skin and put out eyes. So if he's shooting at Anyone, he needs some attention, like if nothing else, he needs to have the gun taken away and he needs some disciplinary action taken toward him. If you're shooting at innocent people with anything from a BB gun to an elephant gun it's still, it is still an offensive act.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • 5280 shooter II5280 shooter II Senior Member Posts: 3,923 Senior Member
    It wasn't so much about 2A Mike........it was about what transpires on who's property and what is the school's jurisdiction. Is the bus stop school property? No. Does the school have an obligation to protect a student's welfare at the bus stop? No. Many a fights have occurred at bus stops and there's not a damn thing a school can do about it. Does a school have an obligation to keep your child out of inclement weather while waiting for the bus? No.

    What these kids did extended the reach of their own property and affected others on public ground. They fired a projectile at unwilling non-participates in the case and it's clearly a police matter......for the mother to defend her children's actions, well she's an idiot too.

    What is one of the rules of gun safety? Know your target and what is behind it. If they shot at the bus stop, they knew their target and have violated every rule.
    God show's mercy on drunks and dumb animals.........two outa three ain't a bad score!
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