Ak's Dangerous even when a Toy!

Fat BillyFat Billy Senior MemberPosts: 1,813 Senior Member
Sherrif deputies shot and killed 13 year old boy that didn't drop plastic toy AK 47 when ordered to. Was it the same LEO's that shot up the truck delivering papers when they were looking for ex cop shooter last year? Details? Who knows. :hand: Later,
Fat Billy

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Replies

  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,000 Senior Member
    That's sick just sick :silly:
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,270 Senior Member
    Fat Billy wrote: »
    Sherrif deputies shot and killed 13 year old boy that didn't drop plastic toy AK 47 when ordered to. Was it the same LEO's that shot up the truck delivering papers when they were looking for ex cop shooter last year? Details? Who knows. :hand: Later,

    Not doubting the veracity of your post...but do you have something to reference it to?
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,891 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    Not doubting the veracity of your post...but do you have something to reference it to?

    http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/calif-sheriffs-deputies-shoot-kill-13-year-old
    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
  • gatorgator Senior Member Posts: 1,720 Senior Member
    What a sad story, my heart goes out to the young lad's family.

    I'm sure the incident was captured on video, or at least audio, and all that will be released soon enough.

    I have mixed feelings as to what the cops should have done if the story in the link is correct. On one hand, can they let someone just walk about with an AK 47? But on the other hand, was he doing anything that should warrant being killed for?

    I guess we will just have to wait till they release more info.
    USMC 80-84
    -96 lbs
  • KSU FirefighterKSU Firefighter Senior Member Posts: 3,246 Senior Member
    So many unanswered questions. Did he point it at them? Did any of the officers on scene try to talk to him? Did they run up screaming at him with drawn weapons? Very sad, my sympathies to both his family and the officers. The family for their loss and the officers for the ordeal they face in dealing with the fact that they killed a kid being a kid.
    The fire service needs a "culture of extinguishment not safety" Ray McCormack FDNY
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,853 Senior Member
    Not that this justifies anything, but looking at the kid's picture, he doesn't exactly look like a wholesome young boy and looks like he could easily pass for a gang member and was in a city that is known for gang activity. If the following report is true then it was just Darwin doing his work...
    Sonoma County sheriff's deputies had repeatedly asked the boy, Andy Lopez, to drop the weapon, but instead he raised it in their direction, police said at a news conference Wednesday.

    Only after the shooting did deputies realize the gun was a replica that looked strikingly similar to a real AK-47 assault rifle.

    Of course this is what they police are saying, I'd like to see the video.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    Maybe it was an older one, which I doubt since it was supposedly an AK copy, but the toy guns all have red tip on the barrel. Which is there purely to identify it as a toy to prevent cases such as this.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,891 Senior Member
    Of course this is what they police are saying, I'd like to see the video.

    You'll never see it. The video has been corrupted, lost, or the device was accidentally turned off before the encounter.
    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    Yes it was a toy AK-47, but it didn't have an orange tip on the barrel, so it looked exactly like a real one. Young boys aren't supposed to have AK-47s. Recent shoot-'em-ups and Junior High kids bringing guns to school had to be on the LEOs' minds. Anyway, they told the boy to put down the weapon, instead he turned around, the cops claim he raised the weapon at them, and that's when the cops panicked. Shoot first, ask questions later.

    See y'all in court. Note to cops - bring your checkbooks.
  • 5280 shooter II5280 shooter II Senior Member Posts: 3,923 Senior Member
    I'm reading the kid also had a toy pistol tucked in his waistband......also lacking the orange tip. My gut feeling a few minutes ago when I read this was....."dmbazz kid!", but then I read he was carrying it in his left hand and the deputies came up behind him......so of course he's gonna turn around to face the officers who just yelled orders to him......it's a natural reaction. Thinking now that LEO is quick on the trigger. Maybe need some ROE and use their heads first.

    I had it in the Army in places where people carry the real deal......"do not fire unless fired upon".
    God show's mercy on drunks and dumb animals.........two outa three ain't a bad score!
  • GunnerK19GunnerK19 Senior Member Posts: 1,083 Senior Member
    The one on the right is the one the kid had. Note that the entire 4+ inch end of the barrel forward of the gas tube is broken off. There goes your orange tip, and any chance that it could be a real firearm.

    toyak47_zps15b39cbc.png
    I'm a Conservative. How conservative? Only Alex P. Keaton has me beat.

    Taurus 605 .357, Ruger .45 Vaquero, Ruger 10/22, Colt frontier commemorative .22 SA
  • centermass556centermass556 Senior Member Posts: 3,509 Senior Member
    I may hurt some feelings but...In my opinion, as much as I disagree with a lot of what law enforment is doing in these times, This was a good shoot. I know it is crappy, but without video or other proof, that cop did right. The sad thing is even though he did right, he has to live with it for the rest of his life.
    "To have really lived, you must have almost died. To those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,891 Senior Member
    I may hurt some feelings but...In my opinion, as much as I disagree with a lot of what law enforment is doing in these times, This was a good shoot. I know it is crappy, but without video or other proof, that cop did right. The sad thing is even though he did right, he has to live with it for the rest of his life.

    So... if the peons cannot produce video or other proof of police misconduct, the cops are right?

    This explains why cops do not want to be video recorded in public, or why they refuse to wear lapel cameras.
    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
  • KSU FirefighterKSU Firefighter Senior Member Posts: 3,246 Senior Member
    I may hurt some feelings but...In my opinion, as much as I disagree with a lot of what law enforment is doing in these times, This was a good shoot. I know it is crappy, but without video or other proof, that cop did right. The sad thing is even though he did right, he has to live with it for the rest of his life.

    I would have to land in this camp as well. Hopefully there is video evidence that they are investigating. Either way, tragic.
    The fire service needs a "culture of extinguishment not safety" Ray McCormack FDNY
  • centermass556centermass556 Senior Member Posts: 3,509 Senior Member
    Lets look at the statements of the Story..

    "13-year-old boy who had been carrying a pellet gun that looked like an assault rifle."

    "Sonoma County sheriff's deputies had repeatedly asked the boy, Andy Lopez, to drop the weapon, but instead he raised it in their direction"

    The above Video show how real the pellet gun looks.

    So, The boy had what appeared to be a weapon, ignored police commands, and then demonstrated intent. Whether you like it or not, that is what happened....unless there is video or evidence to show otherwise. Weapon + Intent = good shoot.

    You don't have like to my opinion, you don't even have to respect it....but then it really doesn't matter what either of us thinks because we will not be asked for our opinions when the investigation happens. But, it is real easy to be a monday morning quarterback when you have never played the game. AND,AND , I say this despite the fact I don't like what police or doing in today's society or how they are behaving. I do think they are become jackboot thugs in many major areas. But, this was a good shoot.
    "To have really lived, you must have almost died. To those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    If that is in fact the toy AK the kid had then the missing orange tip changes things in my book. As Wambli said, I'd be in the news too.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • 5280 shooter II5280 shooter II Senior Member Posts: 3,923 Senior Member
    Where's the dash/cam video?
    God show's mercy on drunks and dumb animals.........two outa three ain't a bad score!
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 9,847 Senior Member
    Lets look at the statements of the Story..

    "13-year-old boy who had been carrying a pellet gun that looked like an assault rifle."

    "Sonoma County sheriff's deputies had repeatedly asked the boy, Andy Lopez, to drop the weapon, but instead he raised it in their direction"

    The above Video show how real the pellet gun looks.

    So, The boy had what appeared to be a weapon, ignored police commands, and then demonstrated intent. Whether you like it or not, that is what happened....unless there is video or evidence to show otherwise. Weapon + Intent = good shoot.

    IF that all is true, then yep. He was bought and paid for. Sad for his family.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,891 Senior Member
    Where's the dash/cam video?



    Previous post:
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    You'll never see it. The video has been corrupted, lost, or the device was accidentally turned off before the encounter.
    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
  • centermass556centermass556 Senior Member Posts: 3,509 Senior Member
    You are right about that Chris. This is the Police version of the story. No one else has said anything contrary...yet. But look how fast the details about a bad Shoot come out in the southern part of that state....
    "To have really lived, you must have almost died. To those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,270 Senior Member
    Isn't the first time a kid has been shot for waving around a toy gun....a co-worker of mine lost one of her sons when he attempted to rob an off-duty state trooper with a plastic gun...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • Shooter13Shooter13 Member Posts: 125 Member
    As a parent my heart goes out to the family for this tragedy, as the brother of a police officer I would say that these cops probably genuinely feared for his life. My brother tells me when he worked patrol every time he pulled a car over you never know what to expect.. These guys are always in fear of their lives..

    The kid shoulda had more common sense than that,, if the orange tips were cut off than this kid did it intentionally to either scare or get a reaction.. He got one.. And sadly this is what happens.. Kids are very unpredictable these days for all we know it coulda been a suicide attempt..
    So many unanswered questions but honestly why are you walking around with a gun that looks this real?? Where were the parents??
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 19,114 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I agree. If that guy had pointed that at me I'd be in the news too. But I too would like to see the video...
    Lets look at the statements of the Story..

    "13-year-old boy who had been carrying a pellet gun that looked like an assault rifle."

    "Sonoma County sheriff's deputies had repeatedly asked the boy, Andy Lopez, to drop the weapon, but instead he raised it in their direction"

    The above Video show how real the pellet gun looks.

    So, The boy had what appeared to be a weapon, ignored police commands, and then demonstrated intent. Whether you like it or not, that is what happened....unless there is video or evidence to show otherwise. Weapon + Intent = good shoot.
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    IF that all is true, then yep. He was bought and paid for. Sad for his family.
    I agree.
    Point a real looking gun at me and I'm not going to spend VALUABLE time trying to decide if it's real or not. I'm going to spend that time trying to ensure my wife doesn't become a widow.

    I believe it was Bullsi that used to use the sig-line "Too bad stupidity isn't painful"
    In this case, it wasn't just painful, it was fatal


    edited to add: Also, don't forget that story from a few months back where some scumbag painted the end of his REAL AK orange to make it look like a toy. IIRC that was in Cali also

    This one was in TN
    Draco-Ak-Pistol_zpsea1b5cee.jpg
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • centermass556centermass556 Senior Member Posts: 3,509 Senior Member
    You know, I discussed this story last night with the family. Kids and wife....and you know what the kids ( ranging from 11-13 y/o) first reaction was? It was "why didn't he listen to the police officer?"

    Now, I teach a healthy respect for the law in my house. And, even though I think the police profession is taking a turn for the worse, I still teach my kids to respect the police, do what they ask, and we can sort everythign else later.
    "To have really lived, you must have almost died. To those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 7,151 Senior Member
    Sounds like one of those tragic incidents that falls under the dual headings of "awful but lawful" and "Darwin has been served". You've got a subject failing to comply with a "weapon" in hand that you simply DO NOT have the luxury of analyzing in detail (unless you happen to LIKE the idea of being on the receiving end of rifle fire with nothing but a pistol to fend it off with). It sucks, to be sure, but under the circumstances we're being told of, lighting the kid up like a Christmas tree does't seem unreasonable at all. Age not much of a factor here.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 19,114 Senior Member
    Bigslug wrote: »
    Age not much of a factor here.
    AMEN!!!!!!

    So many people seem to think that if the kid holding a gun is 13, that MAGICALLY it's not going to kill someone if the kids shoots someone with it :nono:
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,245 Senior Member
    Assuming LE is being truthful here (I know, I know....)

    How would most here react if they saw a 13 year-old with two diamond stud earrings, and what appeared to be an AK variant in hand and a pistol shoved in the waistband of his pants walking down the street? Or for that matter, anyone else?
    Overkill is underrated.
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 19,114 Senior Member

    How would most here react if they saw a 13 year-old with two diamond stud earrings, and what appeared to be an AK variant in hand and a pistol shoved in the waistband of his pants walking down the street? Or for that matter, anyone else?
    I'd be calling 911 and reporting a "man with a gun"
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    One of my former students was killed by an undercover cop while carrying an airsoft pistol- - - - -well, not exactly "carrying"- - - -he was robbing pizza delivery guys with it! The cop happened to be the 4th. delivery guy called to the same address one night, (an abandoned house) and the first three had been robbed of their pizzas and their change fund. After three pizza places reported robberies, the cop delivered the next one- - - -plus a fatal double tap!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • 5280 shooter II5280 shooter II Senior Member Posts: 3,923 Senior Member
    Kids should be taught that these days, you LISTEN to a police officer and don't try anything dumb or be a smart-butt, or you'll end up dead.
    God show's mercy on drunks and dumb animals.........two outa three ain't a bad score!
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