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RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior MemberPosts: 4,646 Senior Member
Got out there a little late, slipped down the hill and picked out the tree I wanted to hide behind. Not as much was moving as there usually is. At first at least. The wind was out of the East which is not perfect but will work if you don't go to far down the hill. After a while I heard something down wind of me. Looked that way and it was a medium sized doe still with spots. I've never seen a spotted one this late but this continues to be a weird season. Anyway it was funny because she knew she was supposed to blow the alarm but didn't know HOW to blow the alarm. She she ran off a little ways, stomped her foot and made these funny little noises. She finally trotted off and things settled down.

A little while later a big fat doe came in. I got ready and when she was about 30 yards away I let her have it. NOT. I pulled the trigger and got Snap...Boom
Dang it! A hang fire, and a long one too. A clean miss. I remembered I had forgotten to run a dry patch down the bore before I loaded up this morning.
That one is on me. But she DID know how to blow the alarm. LOL

So, I reloaded and relaxed. Presently a fat 6 point came through. He was way out of my self imposed range limit But I watched him through the binocs in case he rambled my way. But he just kept heading away down the hill. As soon as he was gone a nice doe came up he hill right where he had gone down, so I watched her too. But when I took the nocs down once I saw more movement way out there. It was a doe making a beeline for me.
As she kept coming I finally got my gun up. I stepped back from the tree so I could use it as a rest. When she was what I later paced off as 27 paces, (the terrain is difficult so that is not exact.), She was quartering to me and I've had enough of this running off nonsense So I put it on her shoulder and shot.
I need to mention that I switched bullets I was using an all copper bullet, 348 grains. They call it a "Powerbelt" I guess because it has this plastic base. It's red to match the plastic tip. Pics will be attached below. But I've stuck with my 80 grains of Pyrodex.
So anyway I shot and it knocked her arse over teakettle. I mean on her butt then over backwards. She rolled over down the hill 3 or 4 times.
And here's where the ML adventure part comes in.

Just when I thought, "finally", she jumped up and ran off down the hill. I squatted down so I could see under some Dogwood saplings to mark the last place i saw her. As best I could anyway as she was well over 2 hundred yards away by that time.

So I reloaded. Lit a cig and pulled a bottle of water out of my pack. Time went by and I went to look for blood. i swear I pulled my best Natty Bumpo but could find no sign.

I looked for a while then went back to the house to get my wife to help. We looked every where and found no sign. I went down to where I thought i had last seen her and no luck. But I did find dome scrapes. So, disgusted, I finally told her I was done. She decided to hang in there.
I came back to the house, poured a cuppa coffee and started a thread about how I lost another one.

Then I got the text. She had found it. Not by finding any blood but just by walking all over and using her binoculars. So I ran out there and we met up and walked out to it. There will be no hero shots as it was getting near 50 degrees by now and those guts had to come out right now. After that messy job was done job I walked ever larger circles looking for a blood trail. I found not a drop. She had finally expired due to internal bleeding.
So once she was dressed we dragged her up to the top of the ridge and I had my wife go get the wheelbarrow, I wanted her hanging, skinned and quartered ASAP. The deer, not my wife.

So we got that done and the autopsy said the bullet went though the shoulder, nicked the right lobe of her lung with out doing much damage, practically exploded the paunch and was found just under the hide on the off side ham.

The pics will show her dressed weight as about 63 pounds by the scale. The leaf on her shoulder obscures the entrance wound.

The pic of the bullets shows an unfired one and the recovered one. On the recovered one the plastic base was not still attached, in fact i found it near the tree she was standing by when I shot. But the bullet has this little stud for the base so it wouldn't stand up straight without using that base. Note the red plastic tip is visible on the recovered one. I will weigh it tomorrow to see about retained weight. But i don't think it shedded much.




Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs

Replies

  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    crap, cant post more than one at a time

    Or i guess you can
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    Anyway, My ML is no longer for sale. Nor is my lucky hunting hat
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,657 Senior Member
    I tried power belts, I wasn't impressed with them.

    Glad your wife found it :beer:
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    i have no idea how the thread title is only "e". That is not at all what i typed
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,254 Senior Member
    I harvested a bunch of deer, and never lost one, with a .50 caliber Hawken rifle shooting Hornady .429" 180 grain jacketed softpoints in sabots over 80 grains of Pyrodex P. I really preferred using patched round balls, but my $65.00 flea market smokepole has a barrel that was so badly rust-pitted it wouldn't group patched balls inside a pie plate at 50 yards. Sabots worked- - - -2" groups at 100 yards.

    Now I shoot a Traditions flintlock .50, round balls, dry lube patches, and 70 grains of 3-F black powder. The deer still drop in their tracks- - - -or at least run a few yards and keel over. I either get straight-through penetration, or the ball ends up just under the skin on the off side. Round balls just kill all out of proportion to their paper ballistics, and I've seen numerous failures of all sorts of conicals and saboted fancy projectiles- - - -mostly from inlines!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,072 Senior Member
    Congrats - when I read your account I thought "Ya know, you just CAN'T make this stuff up!". Glad your wife found her - wives are great, aren't they?
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,551 Senior Member
    Great story. Congrats on the doe!
    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
  • 5280 shooter II5280 shooter II Senior Member Posts: 3,923 Senior Member
    Hey, you finally didn't lose one........:tooth:
    God show's mercy on drunks and dumb animals.........two outa three ain't a bad score!
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    zorba wrote: »
    Congrats - when I read your account I thought "Ya know, you just CAN'T make this stuff up!". Glad your wife found her - wives are great, aren't they?

    Wives can be great and I certainly hit the jackpot when I met mine.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Awesome, glad you found her. (The wife and deer)

    I am not at all impressed with that bullet! It barely expanded, if at all.

    Thanks, on both counts. Regarding expansion, it already starts out a full caliber. Over a half inch and at ML velocities I don't know what kind of bullet, if any, would expand much. I have no idea what MV I'm getting but I would guess around a 1000 FPS or so.
    I only use 80 grains of powder but the literature that came with these suggests 120, "for best accuracy". I also see where they offer these in a pure lead hollow point design. Some time I'd like to try those and maybe up my charge weight some.
    It'd be nice to not feel limited to archery ranges.
    On the flintlock issue, to each his own and all that but it's a practical matter for me. My eyesight continues to deteriorate and I can barely put a bowsite pin on the bull. So it really helps to have that scope on my ML rifle.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 25,727 Senior Member
    Glad your wife finally located that deer. If no blood trail, tracking can be tough. Looking for disturbed leaves can make you go cross eyed after a while. The bullet not expanding is not a good thing; I think I'd try something else that will shoot accurately in your ML that will expand at ML velocities.

    I never liked those Power Belt bullets. Couldn't get them to group worth spit. I do like my hand cast T/C Maxi Balls, though. They group well and expand well, even though they are a bit pointed. They punch a hole in and out every time. I rarely get to recover one. My T/C Hawken likes them, too. I use 90 grains volume equivalent Pyrodex Select in it.

    I also hunt with one of them not so newfangled Traditions inline .45 cal. muzzle loaders with hand cast pure lead .357 truncated cone 158 grain bullets in a sabot. Get complete through and through penetration with them, too. Load is 75 grains volume equivalent Pyrodex Select.

    I save what little real black powder I have for my BP pistols, .32 cal. caplock squirrel rifle, and my flintlock rifle. That stuff is really hard to find locally; only ONE dealer in Knoxville in East TN I'm aware of, and I hate to pay the shipping on it.
    Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.


  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    Well Mike, these things group well for me and are a breeze to load. I've got some hollow point maxi-balls I haven't used in years. I might play with those some and I've still got a buttload of the hollow point lead ones in sabots. Our ML season is on through Sunday but I think I'm gonna stay out of the woods around here for a while. There's a second season in December. Modern gun opens 11/9 and I can just sit at the top of the hill and kill anything I can see.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,657 Senior Member
    Thanks, on both counts. Regarding expansion, it already starts out a full caliber. Over a half inch and at ML velocities I don't know what kind of bullet, if any, would expand much. I have no idea what MV I'm getting but I would guess around a 1000 FPS or so.
    I only use 80 grains of powder but the literature that came with these suggests 120, "for best accuracy". I also see where they offer these in a pure lead hollow point design. Some time I'd like to try those and maybe up my charge weight some.
    It'd be nice to not feel limited to archery ranges.
    On the flintlock issue, to each his own and all that but it's a practical matter for me. My eyesight continues to deteriorate and I can barely put a bowsite pin on the bull. So it really helps to have that scope on my ML rifle.
    80gr. you're probably getting ~1500fps+ MV.
    Pure lead MaxiBalls, or Great Plains bullets will expand, as will numerous 44 caliber bullets in sabots. I use ranier .429" 300gr HPs in sabots in my inline and ranier 335gr HPs in my 50 Beowulf. The 335s are impressive in the damage they do @ 1812fps MV
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,788 Senior Member
    knitepoet wrote: »
    80gr. you're probably getting ~1500fps+ MV.
    Pure lead MaxiBalls, or Great Plains bullets will expand, as will numerous 44 caliber bullets in sabots. I use ranier .429" 300gr HPs in sabots in my inline and ranier 335gr HPs in my 50 Beowulf. The 335s are impressive in the damage they do @ 1812fps MV


    My thoughts were pretty close. I have zero ML experience so whatever I say take it with a grain of salt.

    Bullet performance and penetration were not very good, so velocity would be my first concern for that specific bullet.

    I do not know if 80 gr of Pyrodex is your MAX, but if I were to continue to use that particular bullet I would want more velocity. It certainly seems big enough and heavy enough.

    IMHO

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,788 Senior Member
    BigDanS wrote: »
    My thoughts were pretty close. I have zero ML experience so whatever I say take it with a grain of salt.

    Bullet performance and penetration were not very good, so velocity would be my first concern for that specific bullet.

    I do not know if 80 gr of Pyrodex is your MAX, but if I were to continue to use that particular bullet I would want more velocity. It certainly seems big enough and heavy enough.

    IMHO

    D

    I looked it up and for what it is worth, Hodgdon lists two 50gr Pyrodex pellets, 100 gr, as the max for a .50 cal ML. Again I don't know squat about ML's but you might want to increase the charge if you stay with that bullet.

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    I may have some .50s for you to try. If not, next time I cast pure lead I will make you up some Minnie balls if you would like. Might be a bit though before im ready to cast.

    That would be awesome but it's a .54 cal. I've been thinking about this and I remember when I bought this thing, early 90's I think. Anyway the gun store shelves were full of the sabot stuff. So I tried some with pistol bullets and had trouble. And I got to thinking about all the damage lead did to humans in the Civil War. So that's when I switched over to the pure lead in the sabots.
    Dan, regarding penetration, it traveled the full length of the deers body I think if I'd shot her in the chest it might have been different. The way it knocked her off her feet was something else. I just didn't hit anything vital enough to put her down quickly.
    It's just been a very frustrating thing losing a nice buck and almost losing this one. But she's on ice and is a good start on meat for the Winter.
    Have you guys bought steaks lately!!
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • agewonagewon Senior Member Posts: 655 Senior Member
    All I got from this was that you got yourself a keeper! And I ain't talking about the Doe.
    My wife would have told me to beckon her from the truck if I needed help.
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,788 Senior Member
    That would be awesome but it's a .54 cal. I've been thinking about this and I remember when I bought this thing, early 90's I think. Anyway the gun store shelves were full of the sabot stuff. So I tried some with pistol bullets and had trouble. And I got to thinking about all the damage lead did to humans in the Civil War. So that's when I switched over to the pure lead in the sabots.
    Dan, regarding penetration, it traveled the full length of the deers body I think if I'd shot her in the chest it might have been different. The way it knocked her off her feet was something else. I just didn't hit anything vital enough to put her down quickly.
    It's just been a very frustrating thing losing a nice buck and almost losing this one. But she's on ice and is a good start on meat for the Winter.
    Have you guys bought steaks lately!!

    Then it makes even more sense. The maximum load for a .54 cal is 120gr according to the Pyrodex / Hodgdon web site. At 80gr you are at 2/3 MAX. So while you got great penetration with that all copper bullet, you got very little deformations and energy transfer.

    But like I said, I never even shot one other than Woodsrunners at Teach's last May.

    IMHO!

    D


    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    BigDanS wrote: »
    Then it makes even more sense. The maximum load for a .54 cal is 120gr according to the Pyrodex / Hodgdon web site. At 80gr you are at 2/3 MAX. So while you got great penetration with that all copper bullet, you got very little deformations and energy transfer.


    You make perfect sense. But here's the reason I load 80 grains, when I first got this thing I used 110 grains and accuracy was great. But over time it degraded. So in my experience with ML the first, easiest and cheapest thing to do us fiddle with your load. So that's what I did. I didn't jump right to 80 grains. I just went down a little. And it worked but then the cycle repeated itself, so over the years I finally got down to the 80 grain load. And keep in mind I shot both these things at only +/- 30 yards.

    I've been running this through my mind since I lost that buck. And I think what I'm gonna do is get back to basics. I've got about 10 lead maxi-balls around here leftover from my TC Hawken days and if I can't get them or the pure lead hollow points in the sabots to group at say, at or near 100 grains then maybe the barrel is gone and it's time to buy a new one. I've shot the living daylights outta this thing over the years and hope I don't have to ditch it. But somethings got to give if no other reason than honoring the animals.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 25,727 Senior Member
    Razorbacker, your last post got me to thinking. You may have lead/plastic buildup in the grooves from shooting so long and so much. If you want to try something that will maybe help I'll give you the instructions. Since it is a .54 cal. get a 20 ga. bronze shotgun brush. Also get a pack of Chore Boy brass cleaning sponges, and make sure they are really brass by using a magnet. The off brand ones are copper washed steel. Cut off enough of one of the Chore Boy sponges to completely wrap the space between the spiral 20 ga. brush bristles.

    Run a really wet patch of a good bore cleaner down the barrel and let it set a few minutes. Then use the brush wetted with solvent and push and pull it out of the bore, and check for slivers of lead/plastic. If you find any, keep at it with brush and solvent until the brush comes out clean. You'd be surprised how much of that stuff hides out in the grooves over time in a ML.
    Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.


  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    Thanks Mike, I will try that. But I think first I'll try for a group with 100 grains of powder so I'll have a before and after kind of base line.

    Edit: the day I bought this thing my boss at the time was with me and we went strait to the range. At 50 yards with iron sites a patched ball and a maxi-ball went into the same hole. I then tried a sabot round. My boss said before I shot that if I did that again he'd buy my lunch. The sabot barely enlarged the hole. So I got a free lunch and then we went back to the store so he could buy one.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
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