Bought a box of Cor Bon SD Ammo

NNNN Senior MemberPosts: 23,901 Senior Member
I'm at the LGS and see this box of subject ammo on the shelf in 10mm; my brain is thinking powerball even though
I'm seeing a blue and white box instead of red and white box. So, I buy the powerball ammo and when I get ready to
shoot it, it has morphed into 10mm 135gr JHP.

I went out and shot a couple of half gal milk jugs. It shot a little low, 4" or so; no biggie because I could adjust the sights
if I planed on using much of it. Terminal effect was impressive for a jug of water.

Then the problem, the brass cases were stuck.
I could pick one out with my thumb nail and 3 more would push out with considerable force using a pen.
The last one would not budge and I had to beat it out using the pen and my de-mooning tool, a piece of copper tubing.

Not sure I want to shoot any in the Glock 20.

The primer did not show excessive pressure and did not look much different than some of the .40 S&W I've shot
in the same revolver.
A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.

Replies

  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,263 Senior Member
    Straight-wall cases don't show any of the classic overpressure signs- - - -the first indication of a problem is usually a hand-grenaded gun. If they're difficult to extract from a revolver chamber, you're probably into dangerous territory. I had a similar situation with some .38 Special handloads in my Ruger Security Six .357 years ago- - - -ran out of standard primers and used some magnum ones without adjusting the powder charge and had to tap the ejector rod on the shooting bench pretty firmly to extract the cases. I didn't re-use those cases (a box of 50) once I fired all of them. They didn't show any overpressure signs- - - -flattened primers, etc., just hard extraction.
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Very strange. CorBon is a pretty reliable major manufacturer and for them to put out some over-pressure loads is a big error. But you obviously got a too-hot box or lot.

    If it were some fly-by-night company I'd just toss the ammo but you should contact them and give them the lot number. Maybe they'll send you a coupon or whatever for new ammo?

    I mean, I've fired CorBon PowrBall for years now and have fired hundreds of rounds, without the slightest problems (which is of course what we expect from any major brand ammo).

    Something went wrong and they'll want to fix it.

    Keep us updated, okay?

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,901 Senior Member
    I called them and they want the ammo back to check it out.
    Sending a UPS pick up order.
    Said they would send me a new box of ammo.

    I have shot powerball also. .40 S&W caliber in the same gun a week or so ago, worked well.


    I did go back and shoot two more rnds before I called them, one picked out by thumbnail and I had to pound the other out.
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    NN wrote: »
    I called them and they want the ammo back to check it out.
    Sending a UPS pick up order.
    Said they would send me a new box of ammo.

    Keep us updated, okay? Something obviously went wrong for you to get a box of overpressure rounds, especially from a major, reputable firm.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,668 Senior Member
    Ned, you HAD thoroughly cleaned the chambers after shooting the 40's before switching to the 10mm's?

    Carbon build up at the mouth of the 40 cases could cause both sticky extraction and excessive pressure with the longer rounds
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,901 Senior Member
    knitepoet wrote: »
    Ned, you HAD thoroughly cleaned the chambers after shooting the 40's before switching to the 10mm's?

    Carbon build up at the mouth of the 40 cases could cause both sticky extraction and excessive pressure with the longer rounds
    Hey, I live with Mrs. Clean; it is compulsive. The last ammo I shot was 10mm anyway.
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,668 Senior Member
    Hey, sometimes folks overlook the obvious, so I had to ask :beer:
    That and you ARE Nutty Ned :tooth:
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,051 Senior Member
    Could be cleaning solvent or oil in the chambers to cause them to stick, too....
    Overkill is underrated.
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,901 Senior Member
    knitepoet wrote: »
    Hey, sometimes folks overlook the obvious, so I had to ask :beer:
    That and you ARE Nutty Ned :tooth:
    I learned that a long time ago,

    It was .38 in a .357, though the issue was a bit different, after a shot and the case recoiled against the recoil shield;
    it would not reset in the chamber to allow normal hand pressure to index the next shot.
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,901 Senior Member
    Solvent could be an issue as these are relatively hot ammo
    I'm not
    saying they are out of spec.

    The wheels are in motion
    I'll let it happen.

    I did as the tech if he really wanted to do this and he said yes.
    Sorta backs up Sam's opinion of the company doesn't it.
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,901 Senior Member
    Shot some 10mm 170 gr in that revolver today just to compare extraction;
    cases picked out easy with a thumb nail.

    Corbon ammo on the way back to them today.
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    NN, I'm trying to imagine how this might have happened. First, we need to guess what the actual problem is, and it simply seem that too much propellent was added to the box, if not all the rounds, at least most, as you fired quite a few to make sure, and statistically, if you've have gotten just 2-3 baddies, it would have gone away. But maybe most of or all of the box was overcharged, right?

    Now how could this happen? If you'd been shooting, say, .38 regular and the loading machine was accidentally set for .357mag, then that might be the "right" (actually "wrong") portion of charge -- clearly not 2x but maybe something like 1.3x correct?

    I as understand it, depending on the amount of automation they have, you have one machine that grabs empty cases and plunks a primer into the case first, right? Then there's some sort of a metal or hard plastic jig that holds a few hundred cases upright in a big flat tray maybe the size of a cookie sheet? I'm just guessing, the loading machines are automated but people carry the ammo from machine to machine. So the trays can't be too large or they'd be clumsy. The design engineers would figure out the ideal size to make the machines and the holding trays.

    If the tray is too small, you need to have, say, 8 trays where 4 larger trays would work. So you use the largest tray possible. But also, if you lot runs aren't huge (your lot runs are based on orders processed and popularity of that ammo, stuff like that), a too-large tray would mean you'd be working with half-trays sometimes. Believe me, design engineers study this -- my dad was one of the best and he could analyze an assembly line and spot its hangups in minutes.

    So anyway, you've got a big oversize cookie sheet sort of metal tray that can be lifted by one worker, and on the tray are maybe 20-30 smaller holding boxes, probably hard plastic, to hold the upright open cases ready for propellant.

    I'm also guessing that since the propellant is flammable (duh) and dusty and a bit toxic, you'd have the "fill the casings" operation in a separate room with special ventilation. So new blank forged brass casings (made offsite or onsite) are dumped into the hopper of the "primer pounder" machine first, these cases funnel into a gripping die, it sets the primer properly, and drops the casings into another out-hopper.

    Then we get a guy like cpj or buffy (just kidding) to sit there on a tall stool all day and pick up newly primered cases from the bag and put them upright into the big trays, just like your cartridges sit in a plastic tray when you open a new box. All deference to buffy and cpj but a machine will do this lots faster, ha ha.

    So anyway, you've now got big flat trays of cases, clamped upright in a plastic holder, maybe a sliding sort of lock to keep the mouths steady?

    And on to the charging machine.

    The operator fills the hoppers with the proper propellant, marks the lot numbers, and sets the amount of charge (probably set in grams but maybe grains) and then starts the machine. Now depending on the degree of automation, the trays may be started at one end, the grippers hold the tray, and the servos inch the tray forward so that a whole row of empty cases is under a row of feed nozzles. Advance, stop, squush, advance, repeat, filling a whole row of cases at the same time.

    Now if I were the boss, I'd have a quick little weighing scale setup at the end of the filling process, and have the people weigh each big tray as it comes off to ensure that the total new weight is close to ideal. Weigh the tray before the charging maybe.

    What's very critical here is to NOT sent out overpressure ammo! If the primers are seated nicely, if the bullets aren't crimped right, you get inconsistent function, but if you've overloaded, you can get a breach and a big lawsuit for injuries.

    And of course it's necessary to do spot checks on the ammo, take a certain number out of the production line, inspect the crimping, pull the bullet and see if it's tight or too tight, measure the charge, check the primer seating, etc. All that has to be done.

    One of two things happened... 1) the wrong setting on the filling machine was used or, and this is what I would bet a shiny quarter on! 2) the filling cycle of the charging machine is faulty and the filler nozzles are "stuttering" or "chattering" just a teeny bit, causing them to deliver an extra charge after the correct charge was dumped. Relay or electric valve chatter is usually caused by a surge current in the wiring and this is normally eliminated by having a correct R/C (resistor/capacitor) choke across the relay. If that choke fails, an electric valve can stutter or stammer and dribble out excess.

    Of course I may be totally wrong here. I was just creating in my mind an automated mass process for making cartridges and in fact they are probably made by hand, one by one, by elves.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,901 Senior Member
    There are other things to consider, SAM, the primer issue Jerry mentioned.

    Then, the 6 chamber issue
    maybe all are not the same size and a hot rnd expands the case in that chamber too tight.
    Both chamber and ammo still could be to spec, but, when matched up there is an issue.

    I have a 9nn cylinder that has one chamber slightly bigger than the other 5. No problem with new ammo, but, factory reloads may only fit in that one that is bigger.

    Then revolver vs pistol----this ammo may work just fine in a pistol with the slide providing the rearward force necessary to extract the case.
    When I get the replacement box I will use moonclips and see if the extractor pushing on the moonclip solves the issue.
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • shootbrownelkshootbrownelk Senior Member Posts: 2,019 Senior Member
    Back when Ruger came out with the .454 casull in the Super RedHawk I bought one and while at the store I also purchased 2 boxes of 300gr. Hornady .454 ammo. All the cases I fired in the first cylinder full..Jammed. So tight I had to use a Brass punch and a hammer at home to remove them. I called Hornady about the situation, and they said they had a problem with annealing the brass. Sent the ammo back and they sent replacement ammo.
    Perhaps the brass is your problem.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Thanks guys for the info! So there can be other things besides just overloading that can create the problem NN has. Interesting.

    Regardless, it wasn't just a single glitchy casing or load that created the problem, because he had several rounds fail on him the same exact way. So it's very very likely a single fault for all, eiither bad casings or too much charge or whatever.

    NN be sure to try to find out, tell him a curious forum wishes to learn.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,901 Senior Member
    Thinking about this issue, I did not report that the dotted line around the case, cannelure?, was mostly smoothed out after firing.
    Since I sent the fired brass back, they'll figure it out.
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    What gun was it ?

    I saw something like that with a NIB S&W M-19 .357 magnum, and We measured the chambers, they were a bit too large.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,901 Senior Member
    610
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,901 Senior Member
    They replaced the AMMO, no info on what they found or did not find; I sent an e-mail to ask if they found out any issues.
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,985 Senior Member
    I had a 25 round box of Cor-Bon JHP ammo in .32 ACP years ago. After I chambered a round and went to eject the live cartridge, the bullet stayed in the barrel, powder dumped in the chamber and brass was ejected using my Walther PP.
    I gave it away (the ammo).All other brands like Silvertips and my reloads feed/eject just fine in the Walther.

    However, from all other accounts and reports Cor-Bon is good/reliable ammo and works flawlessly.

    This reenforces the the old advice of testing any and all ammo you use in your gun for SD, when your life may depend on it. Murphy's Law will bite you in the butt when you least expect it.

    So I reckon if you have a 50 round box, fire a few for reliability/function especially in a semi-auto pistol. Your case was a revolver, less common for issues, but it did cause an extraction problem, so a quick reload was outta the question. I mean you whacked that plastic jug good didn't ya :guns::guns:
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,803 Senior Member
    Back when Ruger came out with the .454 casull in the Super RedHawk I bought one and while at the store I also purchased 2 boxes of 300gr. Hornady .454 ammo. All the cases I fired in the first cylinder full..Jammed. So tight I had to use a Brass punch and a hammer at home to remove them. I called Hornady about the situation, and they said they had a problem with annealing the brass. Sent the ammo back and they sent replacement ammo.
    Perhaps the brass is your problem.

    Could very well be, but your post pointed out one thing to me. There's many possibilities here. And Ned did right by taking Sam's advice and sending the rest of the ammo back to the factory, because they have a better chance of solving this riddle. If you asked me to bet on any one thing I'd say no way jose. Too many possibilities here. It could have been the brass, the powder charge, the primer type, the powder itself, hell the shift who made it may have a person or two that aren't doing their job properly for all we know. The possibilities are endless and the best way to find out is just what Ned did, send back the rest of the ammo and let their experts hash it out. And they do have a very big vested interest here. Something like a too hot batch of ammo, even a few boxes could cost them dearly in law suits, maybe even a small Class Action suit which could bring down a smaller company.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,901 Senior Member
    I shot a few today, shot well, blew up water jugs, and extracted easy with my thumbnail.
    I did not use a moonclip, nor would I have needed one for this ammo.
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • N320AWN320AW Senior Member Posts: 648 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    Straight-wall cases don't show any of the classic overpressure signs- - - -the first indication of a problem is usually a hand-grenaded gun. If they're difficult to extract from a revolver chamber, you're probably into dangerous territory. I had a similar situation with some .38 Special handloads in my Ruger Security Six .357 years ago- - - -ran out of standard primers and used some magnum ones without adjusting the powder charge and had to tap the ejector rod on the shooting bench pretty firmly to extract the cases. I didn't re-use those cases (a box of 50) once I fired all of them. They didn't show any overpressure signs- - - -flattened primers, etc., just hard extraction.
    Jerry

    Absolutely correct! As Dan Johnson once stated, "Handgun rounds don't show typical over-pressure signs that rifle cartridges do. You know you have too hot of a load because the gun just blows up."
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,901 Senior Member
    Shot some of this ammo in a glock
    no issues
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
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