Shotgun opinion for home defense

browninghunter86browninghunter86 MemberPosts: 351 Member
Wandering your input on Mossberg 590A1 model vs Remington 870 Express? Is the Mossgerg worth the extra $$

Rem 870 18" Black synthetic 12 ga http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model-870/model-870-express-synthetic-18inch.aspx

590A1 http://www.mossberg.com/product/shotguns-pump-action-mossberg-590a1-special-purpose-590a1-us-service-model/50676

Read some articles and appears the Mossgerg was only gun to pass Mil-Std-3443 test. Not sure about now though
Andrew
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Replies

  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,372 Senior Member
    Either one would do fine, really. Is the Military Standard test really that important? Do you plan on going to war with it? Both are well supported by the aftermarket industry, the main advantage the Mossberg has is higher capacity. But you can add an extended mag to the Remington. One thing you might want to consider is ghost ring sights: they make precision easier than a brass bead. On the other hand, at most home defense distances the brass bead will probably be just fine.

    Edited to add: were I to spec out a shotgun, I'd go with this Remington, $572 MSRP
    http://www.remington.com/en/products/firearms/shotguns/model-870/model-870-express-tactical.aspx

    And either this Mossberg:
    http://www.mossberg.com/product/shotguns-pump-action-590a1-special-purpose-590a1-6-shot-9-shot/[email protected]&u_field_prod_shot_stock=Synthetic+%28Black%[email protected]&[email protected]&filterNodes=2273,2274,2275,2276&filterNodes=2274,2275&nodeRef=2274,2275&redirect=1&lastnode=1&filterNodes=2275

    Or this one:
    http://www.mossberg.com/product/shotguns-pump-action-590a1-special-purpose-tactical-light-forend-6-shot/51415

    For the Remington and the first Mossberg I'd invest in adding a good light.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 21,251 Senior Member
    Either will do ya.

    Just remember bet to use bird shot. Less chance of over penetration and negates the need to aim. It's a shotgun after all. Besides, at HD distances, the load of 7 1/2 bird shot will likely cut your perpetrator in half.

    Last gem of information, leave the chamber empty. Racking the slide of the shotgun when the evil doer is in your home is the most effecient way to avoid a confrontation. The noise alone will scare the snot out of them and they'll run away in fear. You won't wven have to get out of bed.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 21,251 Senior Member
    Did I cover all of them?
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,372 Senior Member
    You forget that it's not snot that will be scared out of them, and they will be running away with soiled undies.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 21,251 Senior Member
    Ah yes, the poop factor.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • agewonagewon Senior Member Posts: 655 Senior Member
    Whichever you choose, get plenty of range time with it before dedicating it HD. I bought a brand new 870 and the first shell failed to eject, then the second, etc.
    Once it was fixed, I ran 50 shells through it, without issue, before I was confident enough for it to be for HD.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,369 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    Ah yes, the poop factor.

    Makes it easier to track down the befouled perpetrator as well

    All in all, a well-done compilation... :up:
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,360 Senior Member
    Well, for what it's worth, I like the 870 for a couple of reasons. Magazine extensions and spare barrels are easy to install and remove. You can go from HD to bird hunting in a couple of minutes; 5 minutes if you're slow.

    That being said, I have a Mossberg 500 that does double duty as a HD and bird and varmint shotgun. The 870 and 500 are both loaded with rifled Foster lead slugs for HD right now. I don't worry about over penetration out here in the sticks. I want maximum penetration, period.
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • KSU FirefighterKSU Firefighter Senior Member Posts: 3,248 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    Did I cover all of them?

    You forgot to mention the clear superiority of the .410 for self defense. Ease of carrying extra rounds, lighter recoil etc., etc.
    The fire service needs a "culture of extinguishment not safety" Ray McCormack FDNY
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 21,251 Senior Member
    You forgot to mention the clear superiority of the .410 for self defense. Ease of carrying extra rounds, lighter recoil etc., etc.

    Ah, very true. I overlooked the superiority of the .410 shotgun. My bad.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    Ah, very true. I overlooked the superiority of the .410 shotgun. My bad.

    This only applies if the shot is copper washed. Never forget the copper washing. This insures adequate penetration. Without it .410 shot bounces off Buffco's beard.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • browninghunter86browninghunter86 Member Posts: 351 Member
    not planning on taking the thing to war. Just wan something that "could" handle being rough and tough on it if it ever had to used in a situation outside of the home by some chance.

    Like one said the ghost sites are nice if you shoot longer range but close home situation(max would be about30 ft I think the other type would do better

    Never had a shotgun and would like to buy once. Unlike my first rifle(770) where I hated the functioning of it the second I took it out of the box
    Andrew
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 21,251 Senior Member
    I all seriousness, they will both work well for you.

    I prefer the 870 and have beat one of mine pretty well with no issue. I run slugs in mine.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 7,286 Senior Member
    If you're comparing apples to apples, the police versions of the 870 would be the most fair comparisons www.remingtonle.com

    The Police 870s have metal triggerguards, milled extractors, beefy springs, and Parkerized finishes. The civvie stuff has gone to plastic, cast, wimpy, and sandblasted blue.

    The 590A1 gets metal triggerguards and safeties, a thicker walled barrel, and Parkerized finishes. The civvie Mossbergs are plastic, plastic, standard thickness, and blued,

    I've been wrenching on and teaching Remingtons as combat guns for about 8 years now, and have recently started educating myself on the inner workings of the Mossbergs. There's a lot on a Mossberg that is easier to work on (not that closet pumps break much), and I'm beginning to think that the workings of the 'berg may be a little harder for the operator to screw up. A Mossberg's shell carrier is hard-linked to the forend - if the forend is forward, the carrier is up; if back, it's down. The 870's carrier is spring-loaded and can be accidentally kicked to the UP position where it's in your way if you're trying to combat load a round directly to the chamber. The Mossberg's carrier is also completely out of your way when loading rounds into the magazine. The 870's carrier can grab your gloves. Double-feeds on a Remington sit on top of the carrier and require creative gymnastics to clear. On 'bergs, they fall out the bottom.

    The 870's generally tend to be slicker operating - important if you're gamering against a stopwatch, otherwise, not so much. There are probably somewhat more aftermarket goodies for the 870, but the critical stuff - lights, side saddles, and stocks - are pretty well represented for both platforms.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,372 Senior Member
    One thing to consider is that the older Remington 870s were very much in use by the US military. As were Ithaca 37s, Winchester Model 12s and Model 1897s. Point being that just because they don't pass a military standard, doesn't mean they're not durable.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • browninghunter86browninghunter86 Member Posts: 351 Member
    all great info here

    Much appreciated
    Andrew
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 9,681 Senior Member
    Are they worth the extra money? Yes..

    Will you wear out a plain 870 or 500? Doubtful...

    One I have. I still see them for $275ish......

    MS50577lg.jpg
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • 5280 shooter II5280 shooter II Senior Member Posts: 3,923 Senior Member
    Does anyone know of a light mount/brace that goes inbetween the barrel and the magazine and has a picatinny rail that put the light inbetween and off to one side? I had a clamp-on mount it shook off at the range.
    God show's mercy on drunks and dumb animals.........two outa three ain't a bad score!
  • tv_racin_fantv_racin_fan Senior Member Posts: 617 Senior Member
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 7,286 Senior Member
    not planning on taking the thing to war. Just wan something that "could" handle being rough and tough on it if it ever had to used in a situation outside of the home by some chance.

    Check out Mossberg 590A1 part number 51273. This is the Marinecoat (matte nickel plate) version with the simple bead sight, and has the five shot mag and 18" barrel. This pretty much reduces any rust concerns to the inside of the barrel.

    The main difference between the 590 and the 500 is that the front of the 500's magazine is solid and the 590's is closed off by a removable spring clip (same as the 870). You can easily remove the spring and follower to punch out the inside of a 590's magazine with a rod, brush, swab, etc... (remarkable how much crap can get inside there), whereas on the 500 you'll have to unscrew and remove the mag tube to do it right.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • gunrunner428gunrunner428 Senior Member Posts: 1,018 Senior Member
    Other than the magazine design and capacity, the difference between the 590 and the 500 is largely the same as for the 870 Police and the 870 sporting.

    On the 590, components such as the trigger guard/housing and safety button are metal castings, where they are plastic on the "plain-Jane" 500. The barrel walls are also thicker on the 590, making for a heavier (read: more recoil-absorbant) shotgun for a similar overall length.

    The 590 is a great, well-built, and durable defensive/combat shotgun, but so is the 500 for all but the hardest operators.

    Add in the vastly greater options in barrel lengths and configurations for the 500 6-shot (I've seen "turkey" barrels in 20 and 24", with the Accu-choke installed and twin-bead vent rib, along with black powder rifle, ghost ring, rifle-sighted, or scope-rail mounted barrels) and the ability to get a metal replacement safety button from Brownell's and other sources (about the only thing I've seen broken on a Mossberg has been that plastic safety!) and I'd say for the vast majority of users the 500 actually has an edge in utility over the 590.
  • bobbyrlf3bobbyrlf3 Senior Member Posts: 2,475 Senior Member
    If the choice does not have to be new, and you're open to the idea, I use a Winchester 1300 Defender, which has been 100% reliable over the years with little maintenance. It was under $300 when I bought it. I've since applied a sling, AR-style collapsible stock, FO front sight, and a nylon shell carrier. Simple, useful, and all in for under $400. If you see one during your search, give it a look.
    Knowledge is essential to living freely and fully; understanding gives knowledge purpose and strength; wisdom is combining the two and applying them appropriately in words and actions.
  • LMLarsenLMLarsen Senior Member Posts: 8,337 Senior Member

    That's what I have on my 870, with a Surefire light. Solid, affordable, and it does what it 'spose to.
    “A gun is a tool, no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.”

    NRA Endowment Member
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 7,286 Senior Member
    On the 590, components such as the trigger guard/housing and safety button are metal castings, where they are plastic on the "plain-Jane" 500. The barrel walls are also thicker on the 590, making for a heavier (read: more recoil-absorbant) shotgun for a similar overall length.

    Mostly correct. The 590A1 has all that good stuff. The standard 590's are still plastic triggers, safeties, and thin barrels
    Add in the vastly greater options in barrel lengths and configurations for the 500 6-shot (I've seen "turkey" barrels in 20 and 24", with the Accu-choke installed and twin-bead vent rib, along with black powder rifle, ghost ring, rifle-sighted, or scope-rail mounted barrels) and the ability to get a metal replacement safety button from Brownell's and other sources (about the only thing I've seen broken on a Mossberg has been that plastic safety!) and I'd say for the vast majority of users the 500 actually has an edge in utility over the 590.

    Here is where I tend to go against the conventional wisdom that extols the virtues of the modular shotgun. Murphy's Law dictates that the night you get home from a hunting trip late at night, too tired to strip it, clean it, take out the magazine plug, re-install the short riot barrel, and re-load it with your HD ammo, will be the night that you need it to serve as an HD shotgun. Murphy's Law also dictates that the day your wife and kids need an HD shotgun will be the day you're out with it hunting quail.

    So buy the dedicated combat shotgun and the dedicated hunting shotgun. This way, you'll be always ready and will never need to compromise on either.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • tv_racin_fantv_racin_fan Senior Member Posts: 617 Senior Member
    LMLarsen wrote: »
    That's what I have on my 870, with a Surefire light. Solid, affordable, and it does what it 'spose to.

    Glad to know that. I been thinking about getting one for myself and now I believe I will do exactly that.
  • JKPJKP Senior Member Posts: 1,901 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    Did I cover all of them?

    You forgot the part where the 'perp' flies backwards upon receiving the deadly blast.
  • gunrunner428gunrunner428 Senior Member Posts: 1,018 Senior Member
    Bigslug - thanks for the clarification - I was under the impression that all 590's carried the full-steel components.

    And you have a valid point about Murphy and modular shotguns. I inherited a tight-fisted fiscal philosophy from my father and his Dutch heritage, so I look at overall versatility and utility in my choices in firearms. I am a fan of shorter barrels on repeating shotguns, and the 20" turkey barrel intrigues me for a number of reasons, not the least of which is the ability to tailor chokes in even a shotgun for HD, something that's not as common in defensive-length shotguns. Mossberg (and Remington) give you options. And for that reason I'm a fan.
  • 5280 shooter II5280 shooter II Senior Member Posts: 3,923 Senior Member
    LMLarsen wrote: »
    That's what I have on my 870, with a Surefire light. Solid, affordable, and it does what it 'spose to.

    Thanks for the hands on feedback Larsen, will be looking into that as my headlight is a Surefire 6P with the LED upgraded head and tailswitch.

    My Rem 870 is an older Wingmaster with the metal trigger guard, 18" Mossberg barrel, extended mag tube, LPA ghost sight with the tritium font bead with wings....It'll hold six in the tube and six on the saddle...which isn't a cheap plastic one, this is metal with a picatinny rail...I carry eight 00 buck and four foster slugs, Winchester HD, with Hogue Stocks and a Dead Mule in the butt.......it's a 12 gauge, it'll knock the snot out of you if you're used to an AR carbine like I am, I'd rather use my AR..... but it speaks with authority!
    God show's mercy on drunks and dumb animals.........two outa three ain't a bad score!
  • 5280 shooter II5280 shooter II Senior Member Posts: 3,923 Senior Member

    Thanks Enabler! $53.90 later.......you owe me dinner!!!! :tooth:
    God show's mercy on drunks and dumb animals.........two outa three ain't a bad score!
  • Fat BillyFat Billy Senior Member Posts: 1,813 Senior Member
    Mossberg made Remington better. Mossberg was first with double charging rods and Remington followed on theirs. Mossberg was the first with 2 3/4 and 3 inch capability in a stock pump gun with out changing barrel. My plastic trigger guard has been awesome while in the closet hiding place. Mossberg and Remington are both great guns but the Mossberg was better first. :applause: Later,
    Fat Billy

    Recoil is how you know primer ignition is complete.
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