9 silly meter for SD

NNNN Senior MemberPosts: 23,891 Senior Member
Shot some 124 gr hp from those Italian ammo guys---it is as good as any 9mm I have shot in the past. Tgt was a gal water filled jug with a rug wrapped around it.

I hit the jug based on the fact that a hole appeared in the rug in front of the jug, no splash, no wiggle, no anything except the water ran out. That indicates to me that 9mm is not so great a SD rnd, even .327 will wiggle a jug.

The exit hole indicated some expansion of the bullet.

Oh, did I say the water ran out, well, then I must have killed the jug; but, for SD I'm going to use something bigger.
A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
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Replies

  • bobbyrlf3bobbyrlf3 Senior Member Posts: 2,465 Senior Member
    Isn't blood loss an important factor in stopping a threat? If the round expanded and penetrated well, I would think that would be ideal performance. I've read here from others that you don't get hydrostatic shock from handgun rounds ('normal' ones, anyway) so the next best things would be damage and blood loss; the former being the cause of the latter.

    I'm just looking to understand your reasoning.
    Also, there are several other factors involved in the performance you experienced, like distance to target, barrel length, etc., could you expand on some of those factors?
    Knowledge is essential to living freely and fully; understanding gives knowledge purpose and strength; wisdom is combining the two and applying them appropriately in words and actions.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    From what I have seen firsthand from My experience in EMS, and as a LEO, modern 9mm HP ammo loadings can do the job.
    Good bullet placement is of course the key.
    That is why they tell you to aim at centermass.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,891 Senior Member
    PT-92 = 5" barrel

    The farthest I could get was 18 yds, so , I shot at 18 yds. Incidentally it was 1.5 yds farther that I usually get to shoot because we had high water and I could get the boat farther up the opposite bank than normal.

    It appears from your post you like 9 mm.


    I shot a goose with a broken wing with 9mm and it took 5 shots in the body to kill it, so, maybe that is an issue for me in respect to 9 silly meter.

    Oh, yeah; blood loss does the trick as long as the BG does not kill Ya while waiting for blood loss.

    I personally have not been impressed by 9mm; but, it is better than a .32 S&W long.
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,046 Senior Member
    I really doubt that a goose or a water jug wrapped in a rug is a good simulation for a human.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,891 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    From what I have seen firsthand from My experience in EMS, and as a LEO, modern 9mm HP ammo loadings can do the job.
    Good bullet placement is of course the key.
    That is why they tell you to aim at centermass.
    Yeah, and with this gun the best I can do is a tgt that big; my groups are not groups.
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,891 Senior Member
    I really doubt that a goose or a water jug wrapped in a rug is a good simulation for a human.
    Since you carry a .45, that is a strange come back.
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,046 Senior Member
    How so? I don't base my cartridge selection on its performance on smaller vertebrates nor on non-biological simulants.

    I also have been known to carry a .38 Special, .357 Magnum, and.... 9mm. I feel confident in all of them because I use ammo in them that has been shown to have good results on larger vertebrates, say 150 lb. or more.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,659 Senior Member
    Ned, I quit trying to change folk's minds about SD rounds a long time ago.
    Don't like it? Then by all means, don't carry it :beer:
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,891 Senior Member
    knitepoet wrote: »
    Ned, I quit trying to change folk's minds about SD rounds a long time ago.
    Don't like it? Then by all means, don't carry it :beer:
    Oh. I knew the drill before I posted the thread. But, there are people out there that read and base their perceptions on what they read and not what they do for themselves.

    Besides the forum gets slow at times; someone has to post something that people can get worked up over when their comfort zone is being questioned.

    :rotflmao: :hug:
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,978 Senior Member
    NN wrote: »
    Shot some 124 gr hp from those Italian ammo guys---it is as good as any 9mm I have shot in the past. Tgt was a gal water filled jug with a rug wrapped around it.

    I hit the jug based on the fact that a hole appeared in the rug in front of the jug, no splash, no wiggle, no anything except the water ran out. That indicates to me that 9mm is not so great a SD rnd, even .327 will wiggle a jug.

    The exit hole indicated some expansion of the bullet.

    Oh, did I say the water ran out, well, then I must have killed the jug; but, for SD I'm going to use something bigger.

    I reckon you ain't too old to 'Cut A Rug' :rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao:
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    knitepoet wrote: »
    Ned, I quit trying to change folk's minds about SD rounds a long time ago.
    Don't like it? Then by all means, don't carry it :beer:

    Paul has also seen firsthand what 9mm does to humans.

    And non of it pretty, pretty gross perhaps, gross anatomy even !!! :jester:

    The morgue is another place to see evidence of terminal effects of good and poor bullet placement.
    So is the ER of any big city hospital.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,978 Senior Member
    Dump the Eyetailan ammo for good American made stuff like Hornady XTPs/Gold Dots............then dump the Taurus for better groups:jester:
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Yes, that is alot of Bull !!!

    I too second the idea / opinion of a ( fine tuned ) 1911 in 9mm giving better groups.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,978 Senior Member
    And honestly, the 9 Sillymeter ain't one of my my favorite cartridges for a myriad of reasons. I only own one, a Ruger P-89. Its good points are..it is reliable as the sun coming up and going down again, it holds 15 rounds in the magazine and about as good as any full-size 'Wondernine' out there.

    Hardball to Hardball or FMJ vs FMJ......45 ACP wins hands down.

    Your .327 is probably a much better choice than a 9mm Pocket Puppy to tote for SD.

    If you want more firepower in a bigger sized pistol, then go the spray and pray route with a 9mm. It's obviously a personal decision. Carry/use what you do best with and have confidence in. Ain't no gun in any caliber any better than the man or woman behind the trigger.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,978 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    Yes, that is alot of Bull !!!

    I too second the idea / opinion of a ( fine tuned ) 1911 in 9mm giving better groups.

    I fired SS3s Colt 1911 in 9mm the other day and liked it, different, but fun to shoot. And , of course, here comes the argument that if you carry a full sized 1911 in 9mm, why not a HI-Cap with 15 rounds? Unless you really just like the feel and handling of a SA auto in 1911 configuration.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,891 Senior Member
    So, what has this forum come to, if it ain't the party line expect to be accused of posting nonsense; a .22lr can get you in the ER or morgue; but, the consensus here has been do not use it.
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 25,736 Senior Member
    When in doubt, empty the magazine, reload, repeat.
    Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.


  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,978 Senior Member
    NN wrote: »
    So, what has this forum come to, if it ain't the party line expect to be accused of posting nonsense; a .22lr can get you in the ER or morgue; but, the consensus here has been do not use it.

    I'm with you NN, screw the party line. Do what you fell good about. Reminds me of an old joke......guy says his girlfriend in college asked him who he expected to please with that little thing, he said ME:rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao:

    Maybe he showed her his 9 Sillymeter:jester:

    And here starts yet another 9mm vs any caliber argument........................................:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 14,830 Senior Member
    I never been a fan of the 9mm Luger cartridge....That's why my carry guns are all .45 ACPS...BUT...that's just me.
    In modern SD loadings, the 9mm isn't anything to sneeze at, but I still believe in large leaky holes...whether the bullet expands or not...

    Having spent some time working in one of Michigan's Knife and Gun Clubs I've seen a bunch of bullet wounds...on the street, in the ER, on the slab in the Morgue. That being said, I've seen some bullet failures in pretty much everything that folks swear by from 9mm to .44 Mags...in the end there is this...there is NO reliable one shot stopper, thus ........ no matter what you're using....keep shooting until the BG either falls down or stops doing what he's doing...reload if necessary...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • bobbyrlf3bobbyrlf3 Senior Member Posts: 2,465 Senior Member
    NN wrote: »
    PT-92 = 5" barrel

    The farthest I could get was 18 yds, so , I shot at 18 yds. Incidentally it was 1.5 yds farther that I usually get to shoot because we had high water and I could get the boat farther up the opposite bank than normal.

    It appears from your post you like 9 mm.

    I don't actually own a 9mm. I've shot them plenty, but I carry a .45. I was asking because your results and your opinion offered thereafter were different from others, so I wanted a little clarification. I've been considering a BUG, and 9mm is one of the available choices, so naturally I'm interested anytime someone has data/experience that I can read.
    Knowledge is essential to living freely and fully; understanding gives knowledge purpose and strength; wisdom is combining the two and applying them appropriately in words and actions.
  • shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Senior Member Posts: 5,378 Senior Member
    Well obviously the poor performance was because you used a Taurus!

    Anyway, if you don't want to carry the 9mm, then don't! I personally have confidence in the round (may just take out a deer this fall w/ a Speer Gold Dot or something similar just to prove a point), which is why I carry a G19.

    Also, the 1911 is a GREAT platform for the 9mm, despite all the whining about it not being true to JMB's intentions. With that said, I think that rig shines the brightest in rapid fire competitions such as IPSC and IDPA.

    (BTW, BC, if you liked the Colt, you've GOT to try the STI. The difference between the two is like night and day.)
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "It's far easier to start out learning to be precise and then speeding up, than it is having never "mastered" the weapon, and trying to be precise." - Dan C
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,891 Senior Member
    bobbyrlf3 wrote: »
    I don't actually own a 9mm. I've shot them plenty, but I carry a .45. I was asking because your results and your opinion offered thereafter were different from others, so I wanted a little clarification. I've been considering a BUG, and 9mm is one of the available choices, so naturally I'm interested anytime someone has data/experience that I can read.
    I would have NO qualms carrying a 9mm as a bug; in fact I'd rather have a 9mm than a .380; mostly, because all the .380's I've held are too small for my hand.

    But, as a side "Note from Ned" I shot some of this ammo some time ago from a 6.5 inch barreled Blackhawk and had slightly better results.
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 25,736 Senior Member
    Y'all could always get one of these if the 9mm and .45 ACP seems inadequate.:love::popcorn:

    64263.jpg
    Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.


  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 1,949 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    ...

    Ain't no gun in any caliber any better than the man or woman behind the trigger.
    :win:

    While we're here get your torches and pitchforks and we'll burn this topic into the ground. :yesno:
    Beware of false knowledge -- it is often more dangerous than ignorance.
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,891 Senior Member
    bobbyrlf3:
    I reviewed this thread and I believe I reported what happened and said I am not carrying it; not that anyone else should or should not. So, this uproar got going because it wanted to.


    As a side, I have some of this ammo and some Golden Saber loaded in moonclips just in case I need or want to use the speedsix.
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,046 Senior Member
    Uproar? Really?
    Overkill is underrated.
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,458 Senior Member
    If I ever am fending for my life from a hoard of rug wrapped milk jugs, I will keep that in mind. While I do usually carry a .40 or. 45, I would have NO problem carrying a 9mm.

    Sent from my Motorola Atrix 4G via Tapatalk
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • TSchubTSchub Senior Member Posts: 780 Senior Member
    I have carried a 9mm, and would not have a problem doing so again. I'm glad that Ned likes something else. I'm also glad that some people only like .45's. I'm also glad that we live in a free country and are not only able to choose what caliber we wish to carry, but allowed to carry at all. I don't care what you're carrying, should the situation ever arise that we need to defend ourselves, just have my back.:hug:
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,040 Senior Member
    NN wrote: »
    PT-92 = 5" barrel

    The farthest I could get was 18 yds, so , I shot at 18 yds. Incidentally it was 1.5 yds farther that I usually get to shoot because we had high water and I could get the boat farther up the opposite bank than normal.

    It appears from your post you like 9 mm.


    I shot a goose with a broken wing with 9mm and it took 5 shots in the body to kill it, so, maybe that is an issue for me in respect to 9 silly meter.

    Oh, yeah; blood loss does the trick as long as the BG does not kill Ya while waiting for blood loss.

    I personally have not been impressed by 9mm; but, it is better than a .32 S&W long.

    I wish you'd come up with a variation on "silly milimeter." It sounds, well, silly.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,891 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    I wish you'd come up with a variation on "silly milimeter." It sounds, well, silly.
    I was thinking about an old friend of ours from Texas who used that term.
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
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