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How do I get a REALLY sharp edge on a knife?

Six-GunSix-Gun Posts: 8,155 Senior Member
I have a Buck Pathfinder that, out of the box, was one of the sharpest knives I have ever held. The factory edge was absolutely insane. I completely broke down a mule deer with it and got many well-earned nicks along the way. However, I recently re-sharpened it to take out some of the minor dings it got near the tip and generally get it back into good cutting form, but I cannot, for the life of me get it back to that incredible factory edge level of sharpness. I have used an oiled medium stone to remove the minor blade damage and a fine stone to try and tighten it up even more, but it has not seen a strop nor a steel. What is the missing ingredient to get this thing ultra sharp again?
Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
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Replies

  • ZeeZee Posts: 28,429 Senior Member
    Ceramic Sticks (fine)

    I shave my arms easily.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Posts: 8,155 Senior Member
    Hmmm...I think I have a ceramic stick in my Lansky kit. I'll give it a shot.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • TeachTeach Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Try a "Black Arkansas Stone"- - - - -It's the ultra-fine grit natural stone that's used to put the super-sharp edge on a straight razor before it's stropped. There's usually several sizes of them on Ebay at fairly reasonable prices. The longer and wider the stone the better- - - -I like one 3 inches or more wide and around 10 inches long. Then it's just a matter of holding a uniform angle on the blade and "shave" the stone with plenty of lightweight oil on it, pushing and pulling the edge like you're trying to cut a thin slice off the top of the stone.
    Jerry
  • orchidmanorchidman Posts: 8,438 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    Ceramic Sticks (fine)

    I shave my arms easily.

    Is this two separate subjects.........................just wondering?
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • ZeeZee Posts: 28,429 Senior Member
    orchidman wrote: »
    Is this two separate subjects.........................just wondering?

    rim shot
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Posts: 10,942 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    Ceramic Sticks (fine)

    I shave from my arms down daily.

    CPJ made me fix it......
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Posts: 10,942 Senior Member
    Back on topic...... if you don't have a leather strop, you can use a piece of cardboard
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Posts: 8,155 Senior Member
    jbp-ohio wrote: »
    Back on topic...... if you don't have a leather strop, you can use a piece of cardboard
    Ah, now I have plenty of that around.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • terminator012terminator012 Posts: 3,930 Senior Member
    I admit...I can't sharpen ****, tried and tried.
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Posts: 5,463 Senior Member
    Use mineral oil on your stones. It tends to not clog the stone. At the shop we have a grinder wheel made of paper, neat tool. Other than that, I like to use the stone with plenty of mineral oil.
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • BigslugBigslug Posts: 9,868 Senior Member
    Wicked Edge is the system our local cutlery shop uses, but a bit expensive for most home users. I've had good luck with the Spyderco ceramic sticks over the years.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • terminator012terminator012 Posts: 3,930 Senior Member
    In case you missed it.............this is a classic from a forum member.

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  • terminator012terminator012 Posts: 3,930 Senior Member
    How the heck did my last post get here,,,,,, IDK.
  • centermass556centermass556 Posts: 3,618 Senior Member
    Send it to Paul......that is how I did mine.
    "To have really lived, you must have almost died. To those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Electric can-opener with built in knife sharpener :jester:
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • jbohiojbohio Posts: 5,619 Senior Member
    Last time I was in Cabelas, there was a guy doing knife sharpening demos. I handed him my Leek. He used one of those little Worksharp powered deals, medium belt, then fine belt, and stropped it. In about 5 min, it was back to SCARY sharp. He tested it on his arm, and got some skin from under the big wad of hair he peeled off.
    It's on my Christmas list.
    http://www.cabelas.com/product/Camping/Knives-Tools/Knife-Sharpeners|/pc/104795280/c/104740380/sc/104560380/Work-Sharp-Cabelas-Exclusive-Electric-Knife-and-Tool-Sharpener/1269082.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fknife-sharpeners%2F_%2FN-1100734%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_104560380%3FWTz_l%3DSBC%253BMMcat104795280%253Bcat104740380&WTz_l=SBC%3BMMcat104795280%3Bcat104740380%3Bcat104560380
  • LMLarsenLMLarsen Posts: 8,337 Senior Member
    Dad is an absolute master with Arkansas stones. He can put a shaving edge on a marble.

    I've tried, and can't do it, so I stick with the ceramic rods.
    “A gun is a tool, no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.”

    NRA Endowment Member
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Posts: 10,942 Senior Member
    jbohio wrote: »
    Last time I was in Cabelas, there was a guy doing knife sharpening demos. I handed him my Leek. He used one of those little Worksharp powered deals, medium belt, then fine belt, and stropped it. In about 5 min, it was back to SCARY sharp. He tested it on his arm, and got some skin from under the big wad of hair he peeled off.
    It's on my Christmas list.
    http://www.cabelas.com/product/Camping/Knives-Tools/Knife-Sharpeners|/pc/104795280/c/104740380/sc/104560380/Work-Sharp-Cabelas-Exclusive-Electric-Knife-and-Tool-Sharpener/1269082.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fknife-sharpeners%2F_%2FN-1100734%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_104560380%3FWTz_l%3DSBC%253BMMcat104795280%253Bcat104740380&WTz_l=SBC%3BMMcat104795280%3Bcat104740380%3Bcat104560380

    BIL has one of those. He said the first night he had it, he sat watching TV and sharpened every knife in the house.....
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • LinefinderLinefinder Posts: 7,856 Senior Member
    Luis,

    If you are getting a "decent" edge with your medium stone, all you are missing are the two final steps....

    Check out Hallsproedge.com online then give them a call. Though their online catalog doesn't show it, what you need is their item # BBK12. It's a 12" x 2" by 1/2" thick Arkansas Black Surgical benchstone. It runs $55.72 plus shipping but it's worth its weight in gold. The reason I say to give them a call is these stones are advertised as being mounted on a cedar block. Personally, I don't like "mounted" stones because you can use only one side of them. I called them and asked if they had any that were not glued to a block and they sent me one without the mount.

    That stone finishes the edge to a pretty scary edge but for a final touch (aside from leather stropping), I use a yellow legal pad (I know it sounds strange, but trust me on this one) for the few final passes. I actually oil the paper. You can also use the cardboard side first, but the paper side finishes the process.

    Another product that I've only recently discovered is Congress Stoning Oil. We use it in the toolroom where I work for the final polishing of mold interiors. It's the lightest oil I've ever seen and a pint of the stuff should last nearly a lifetime. Turns out, the lube you use on your stones makes a heckuva difference. Prior to discovering this oil, I used Kroil, and this stuff makes Kroil feel like engine sludge.

    Anyway, finishing your edge on the Black Surgical stone followed by oiled paper honing should do the trick on any knife worth its salt. You can (and I occasionally do) final finish the edge on leather. Be sure to clean the edge (tap water works) of any leather residue after stropping. You can't usually see it, but it's there and you'd be surprised how leather filling the micro-serrations makes your blade feel dull when in actuality it's razor sharp.

    The reason I don't always leather-strop anymore is that I've come to prefer a slightly "grippy" edge rather than a "slick as glass" ultra polished edge.

    Anyway, that's my 2 cents. I've bought 2 benchstones from Hall's within the last 8 months, and they are a good company selling a great product. FWIW, I don't bother with anything smaller than benchstone size. It's a lot better to have more stone than you need than to be constantly worrying about slicing a finger by using a smaller stone.

    Oh.........one other thing! (I discovered this by accident, and this is really neat).

    I've always been frustrated with the stone, regardless of size, sliding on the table, which meant that I pretty much had to keep one hand on the stone and one hand on the knife. With longer blades, being able to hold the handle and the blade at the same time is a good thing. Well......check out McMaster or MSC and buy a piece of soft durometer silicone rubber. (I got a 12" x 12" square and that was way more than enough. The key is getting a piece that's at least as long as your stone.) Cut it to length and a tad wider than your stone. Put this on your table and your stone on top of the rubber. Press down slightly. Presto! Your stone is now one with your work surface. You can now use both hands on the knife.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Posts: 12,429 Senior Member
    I use a diamond stone, flat steel, and leather strop. Takes a bit of time, but it gets shaving sharp.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • TeachTeach Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Anybody tried the Japanese water stones? I knew an old man on Okinawa that could just about put a shaving edge on a bananna with one of those things!
    Jerry
  • LinefinderLinefinder Posts: 7,856 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    Anybody tried the Japanese water stones? I knew an old man on Okinawa that could just about put a shaving edge on a bananna with one of those things!
    Jerry

    I checked in to buying one of those once, but the deal breaker for me is that they are relatively soft. Having to reflatten the stone was pretty much a bi-annual thing according to most users. I like to sharpen knives, but I hate truing stones.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • LinefinderLinefinder Posts: 7,856 Senior Member
    Oh.....one other thing.

    While the majority of your sharpening is done with your edge facing the direction of travel (sort of like cutting into the stone), your last few strokes should be with your edge facing the opposite direction, as if you were stropping it on leather.

    This makes a huge difference in the finished edge.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Posts: 8,155 Senior Member
    knitepoet wrote: »
    I use these for my final touch.
    http://www.amazon.com/Smiths-CCD4-Field-Sharpening-System/dp/B000N35D2E/ref=sr_1_9?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1385907319&sr=1-9&keywords=ceramic+knife+sharpener

    ~ 10 stokes on the ceramic sticks after the stone "work" and I'm done

    You can ask the members I've sharpened knives for how well it works
    Now that is definitely a fine looking system and not terribly pricey. Thanks for the recommendation. I like having the ceramic mounted like that.
    Linefinder wrote: »
    Oh.....one other thing.

    While the majority of your sharpening is done with your edge facing the direction of travel (sort of like cutting into the stone), your last few strokes should be with your edge facing the opposite direction, as if you were stropping it on leather.

    This makes a huge difference in the finished edge.

    Mike
    Ah, now that is something I have NOT done to this point. At some point, I will probably breakdown and get a proper strop and Arkansas stone to do this right, but a small kit like what Paul posted would be a great truck kit for when you need something with a small footprint to take on a trip.

    Mike, thanks for the awesome tutorial. I'm going to get this kit built up a bit, it seems All of this said, I just realized part of the reason why this knife was so incredibly sharp out of the box: Buck hollow grinds them. That's going to be really tough to match.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • LinefinderLinefinder Posts: 7,856 Senior Member
    Six-Gun wrote: »

    All of this said, I just realized part of the reason why this knife was so incredibly sharp out of the box: Buck hollow grinds them. That's going to be really tough to match.

    Hollow ground doesn't mean what I think you believe it does. All hollow ground means is that the final sharpening of the blade was accomplished on a wheel, which gives a very, very slight radius to the blade just prior to the final edge. You cannot replicate a hollow grind with a flat stone, and there's no real need to. There really is no specific benefit to a hollow grind other than it lends itself well to mass manufacturing techniques. In fact, I prefer a flat ground edge, and I'm happiest when all my hollow ground blades have finally been sharpened enough that the hollow grind has gone away.

    FWIW, I believe the reason you're having difficulty sharpening your Buck is simply because Buck steel is so darned hard. I've got a Buck 119 that I was given as a gift for making Eagle Scout back in 1972. It is, by far, my least favorite knife to sharpen. I enjoy sharpening knives, and consider it a hobby. But sharpening the only Buck I own is something I consider a drudge chore. While I'll attempt to sharpen anything, my favorite steel to work with is the chromevadium used by Case.

    Oh, another useful tip. Honing steels are handy, but all they are intended to do is straighten the edge, not sharpen it. They are best used as a "touch up" during the course of your cutting task. That said, practically every steel on the market nowadays is touted as a "sharpening" steel and as a matter of course have way too much texture. They will actually dull a good edge rather than straighten it. I've got probably over half a dozen steels that I've bought (one of them a $50 Henkle), and I hate them all, with a single exception....

    I found an old carving set consisting of a carving knife, fork, and steel at an antique store in Des Moines last summer. $2.89 for the set and I threw the knife and fork away. The steel, however, is an absolute work of art. It has a slight texture that would be a modern machinists nightmare to replicate, even with modern CNC machining. If you want a good quality steel, check out your local antique shops. Stay away from any that are pitted, but a little bit of rust can be cleaned off easily enough and shouldn't scare you off. Usually, they're so darn cheap that you can buy a dozen then find the one that cleans up best. Just remember....it's not supposed to sharpen. It's only used to straighten.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Posts: 8,155 Senior Member
    Mike - that would make a lot of sense. One that impressed me with this Buck is how long and well it held an edge breaking down that deer. Unfortunately, as well as hard steel holds an edge, I imagine it's equally difficult to put an edge back on it. I will keep my eye out for an old steel. Given that Vegas is the land of pawn shops above all else, including antiques, I may try muck luck at one of these places to find a decent one.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • LinefinderLinefinder Posts: 7,856 Senior Member
    One more thing before I bore you totally to tears.....regarding using a steel.

    There's a metric ton of YouTube videos showing the "correct way" to use a steel. Don't waste your time. Ninja-fast slashing motions at a hardened bar of steel with your finely tuned blades is a sure way to triple your time at your stones.

    Place the pointy end of the steel down on a towel covered surface. (This keeps the tip of the steel from slipping). Lay your blade, sharp edge up, flat against the steel. Then angle the back of the blade (most folks opine 22 degrees, but I say whatever angle matches the angle you sharpened the blade at....I'm not picky, it's more a matter of feel than measurement) away from the steel and draw your blade smoothly downward. Notice....the direction of the drawing motion is "strop-like", not "sharpening-like". You are trying to move the edge (realign) not remove it. 3-5 strokes on each side usually does the job.

    Done correctly, steeling a knife removes no material from the blade, but the edge is almost as good as freshly sharpened. This is why a steel with a minimum of texture is preferable to most of the ones you commonly run across. To find a great steel......antique stores and estate sales.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • centermass556centermass556 Posts: 3,618 Senior Member
    Paul, yes they are...better than the factory.
    "To have really lived, you must have almost died. To those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Posts: 10,942 Senior Member
    I will end up with one of these......

    299593.jpg

    faster is more gooder.....
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Posts: 6,114 Senior Member
    I either use the 5-stone Lansky system or ask Paul reeeeeally nicely.
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast, and speed is the economy of motion" - Scott Jedlinski
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