Dad was right....Observations from CCW Class...

JayhawkerJayhawker ModeratorPosts: 15,177 Senior Member
Dad always said that "Folks may have a right to own a firearm, but there a some that have no business doing so."

Because we live in a rural area, and the county we live in is rather accommodating as far a carrying firearms goes,and because we rarely actually leave the county, we have put off getting our CCW permits. However, a couple of weeks ago, the wife and I finally got around to going to class for our Kansas CCW permits...

All in all, a good class. Solid, well grounded instructors, and 20 participants, a couple of former LEs, Some folks who obviously knew their way around firearms, some novices, and one guy who spent way too much time playing "Gears of War".

First part of the class was devoted to Firearms Safety.

Having been through these classes a couple of times in MI, we just kinda set back, shut up and nodded our heads a lot and people watched....

The mall ninja asked a lot of questions:
"How many guns can I carry?"
"Can I carry a sawed off shotgun?"
"What if I want to carry an AR pistol?"
"Can I carry concealed knives (plural)?

When pressed for his opinions in "shoot, don't shoot" quizzes, He had a tendency of choosing to shoot in situations where clearly pulling a trigger would be a bad idea...


Last part of the class was on the range for qualification...
5 rounds from 3 feet
10 rounds from 7 feet (1 reload)
10 rounds from 10 feet (1 reload)

all at a 12 inch circle...no time limit...successful qualification required 18 hits within that circle.

The "Gears of War" guy shows up with a old Makarov that he borrowed from his buddy(turns out, for all his blood thirstiness, he doesn't own an actual firearm....yet)....and immediately required constant personal attention from one of the Range officers... in spite of that personal attention, he commits 3 range safety violations in the first evolution. (Apparently he slept through the "firearms safety" part of the class....)

19 of us passed...

Dad was right....
Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
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Replies

  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,982 Senior Member
    That's a big problem for gun owners in general and has gotten some people on this form up in arms over comments that state that fact, that constitutional right or not, some people should not have a gun.

    But, your Dad really likes to hear you say he was right. :up:
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • ghostsniper1ghostsniper1 Banned Posts: 2,645 Senior Member
    Just a few weeks ago when I was at the bank after work trying to cash my check, some old hatefull guy about 70 years old was at the counter spouting off and making a scene on how he was being treated like crapp because he walked up to the teller that was on the phone helping out a customer and she wasn't ready to help him out yet. The thing was, the old guy was open carrying, and you could tell he was doing so in hope that someone would challenge his right to do so. And this bank has no sign that says weapons are not allowed BTW. He was sure (and vocally said,) that this young girl was filing her nails and just chatting it up like a teenage girl and ignoring him. In all, she was doing none of that, besides helping a customer as is her job, but on the phone. I couldnt believe that someone as unstable as this guy would be able to ever own a firearm and get his CCL. Every other word out of his mouth was a vulgarity even with women and children in the lines. I was considering to tell him to shut the hell up and go elsewhere when it dawned on me that he seemed like the type that might just pull his sidearm and say he felt threatened. Either way, they finally told him to leave or they were calling the police.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    It is always a pain when people want to exercise their Constipational rights.....
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 9,596 Senior Member
    Just a few weeks ago when I was at the bank after work trying to cash my check, some old hatefull guy about 70 years old was at the counter spouting off and making a scene on how he was being treated like crapp because he walked up to the teller that was on the phone helping out a customer and she wasn't ready to help him out yet. The thing was, the old guy was open carrying, and you could tell he was doing so in hope that someone would challenge his right to do so. And this bank has no sign that says weapons are not allowed BTW. He was sure (and vocally said,) that this young girl was filing her nails and just chatting it up like a teenage girl and ignoring him. In all, she was doing none of that, besides helping a customer as is her job, but on the phone. I couldnt believe that someone as unstable as this guy would be able to ever own a firearm and get his CCL. Every other word out of his mouth was a vulgarity even with women and children in the lines. I was considering to tell him to shut the hell up and go elsewhere when it dawned on me that he seemed like the type that might just pull his sidearm and say he felt threatened. Either way, they finally told him to leave or they were calling the police.

    Who said he had a CCL??? Don't need a license to open carry.......
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,945 Senior Member
    Scott, just out of curiosity, how old you figure mr "gears of war" was?
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • BPsniperBPsniper Banned Posts: 1,961 Senior Member
    Just shows that good decision are still made in this country. Somebody needs to take that man under their wing and teach him the true purpose and use of firearms. From recreation to defense. He could use a little knowledge and help, it would seem.
    "....the true general purpose big-game cartridges used in this country come in but two calibers, .30 and 7mm. (the .270 Win. is merely a slightly aberrant 7mm whose bullets are .007" undersize.) -Finn Aagaard - American Rifleman, December 1986
  • ghostsniper1ghostsniper1 Banned Posts: 2,645 Senior Member
    jbp-ohio wrote: »
    Who said he had a CCL??? Don't need a license to open carry.......
    My friend, the other bank teller told me so. He said he showed his CCL as his ID instead of his drivers license. He was apparently there to cash a check.
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,458 Senior Member
    Can't fix stupid
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,177 Senior Member
    knitepoet wrote: »
    Scott, just out of curiosity, how old you figure mr "gears of war" was?

    He had to have been at least 21 to be in the class....

    I'm really glad the instructors had the integrity to fail this guy...apparently he failed the written test as well...off to the side, they told him he just wasn't ready for this particular step and recommended a couple of NRA classes he could benefit from.
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    "There is no fool like an old fool."
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    I've seen 'em too and although the stereotype is the "clueless middle age women" these gun idiots come from all slices ofsociety. Young, old, male, female, makes no difference.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • tv_racin_fantv_racin_fan Senior Member Posts: 617 Senior Member
    I still can not wrap my head around the idea that it is ok to restrict everyones rights because of what some tool might do. Why not restrict HIS rights when he actually does something? YES I am well aware that some innocent soul might get hurt in the process of finding out what sort of "mistake" this tool MIGHT commit, but can you seriously say with 100% certainty that he is actually going to hurt someone?
  • SlanteyedshootistSlanteyedshootist Senior Member Posts: 3,947 Senior Member
    My understanding is that the peculiar atmospherics that are the result of mall air conditioning greatly changes point of impact. He just needed more time to adjust to another environment and he would have been shooting bullseyes. Or the extra trauma plates duct taped to his back unbalanced him.
    The answer to 1984 is 1776
  • gatorgator Senior Member Posts: 1,700 Senior Member
    I still can not wrap my head around the idea that it is ok to restrict everyones rights because of what some tool might do. Why not restrict HIS rights when he actually does something? YES I am well aware that some innocent soul might get hurt in the process of finding out what sort of "mistake" this tool MIGHT commit, but can you seriously say with 100% certainty that he is actually going to hurt someone?
    Not trying to pick a fight here,but are you willing to bet your life or the lives of your family that this guy who can not ''get it right'' in a controlled enviroment is not going to make a "mistake" while playing Mall Ninja?
    USMC 80-84
    -96 lbs
  • gatorgator Senior Member Posts: 1,700 Senior Member
    We had 2 out of 20 that could not pass the range quall.in my class.
    One was a young lady that was plowing up dirt in front of the target at 5 yards.
    The other was an older guy with so many safety violations they pulled him of the line.
    They even tried to have him shoot all by himself with 3 instructors standing by and he still kept sweeping people.
    USMC 80-84
    -96 lbs
  • JeeperJeeper Senior Member Posts: 2,952 Senior Member
    Can't fix stupid

    :win: Precisely.

    Luis
    Wielding the Hammer of Thor first requires you to lift and carry the Hammer of Thor. - Bigslug
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,177 Senior Member
    I still can not wrap my head around the idea that it is ok to restrict everyones rights because of what some tool might do. Why not restrict HIS rights when he actually does something? YES I am well aware that some innocent soul might get hurt in the process of finding out what sort of "mistake" this tool MIGHT commit, but can you seriously say with 100% certainty that he is actually going to hurt someone?

    Actually, that is exactly what happened....His right to own a firearm was not restricted in any way...However, due to his unsafe habits, lack of even basic skills and inability to take instruction, his right to carry a concealed handgun in public was restricted until such a time as he corrected those things.

    And yes...considering the fact that I watched him handle a firearm with complete disregard for the destructive power in his hand , I can say with absolute certainly that injuring himself or others was a "when" not an "if"...

    Just for the sake of furthering the discussion...you state;

    "YES I am well aware that some innocent soul might get hurt in the process of finding out what sort of "mistake" this tool MIGHT commit,"


    Would it be OK with you if that innocent soul was YOUR child?

    Bottom Line, IMHO...passing this guy so his feeling wouldn't be hurt and allowing him out on the streets packing a firearm would have been gross negligence on the part of the instructors...I believe they knew that as well.
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • tv_racin_fantv_racin_fan Senior Member Posts: 617 Senior Member
    Actually you nor the law can prevent that tool from carrying a handgun. Sure the law can deny him the permit, but that doesn't prevent him from aquiring a handgun and carrying illegally.

    That innocent soul IS my child sir. You have a plan to prevent this tool from getting a handgun on the street and carrying it illegally?

    By my having to get a permit my rights have been restricted according to the whim of the politicians in the varied states. I can not legally carry in South Carolina even tho I jumped thru the required hoops in Georgia to get a permit to carry. South Carolina has decided that the HOOPS the politicians require in Georgia are not enough.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    I've seen 'em too and although the stereotype is the "clueless middle age women" these gun idiots come from all slices ofsociety. Young, old, male, female, makes no difference.

    The ones I have seen were older male fools.

    When I was a LEO, a young fool LEO had a patrol shotgun up on his shoulder and was sweeping everyone, I took (wrenched) it from him as he protested, and took it to an unloading station, it had a round in the chamber, safety off.
    I wrote him up and he was desk bound for some considerable time thereafter.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,177 Senior Member
    Actually you nor the law can prevent that tool from carrying a handgun. Sure the law can deny him the permit, but that doesn't prevent him from aquiring a handgun and carrying illegally.

    That innocent soul IS my child sir. You have a plan to prevent this tool from getting a handgun on the street and carrying it illegally?

    By my having to get a permit my rights have been restricted according to the whim of the politicians in the varied states. I can not legally carry in South Carolina even tho I jumped thru the required hoops in Georgia to get a permit to carry. South Carolina has decided that the HOOPS the politicians require in Georgia are not enough.

    By your post, I should assume you against the permit process in general? If so we wander into entirely different territory...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,335 Senior Member
    BPsniper wrote: »
    Somebody needs to take that man under their wing and teach him the true purpose and use of firearms. From recreation to defense. He could use a little knowledge and help, it would seem.

    Sage advice. :up:
  • tv_racin_fantv_racin_fan Senior Member Posts: 617 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    By your post, I should assume you against the permit process in general? If so we wander into entirely different territory...

    Indeed sir.

    I understand that there are indeed some who should not own nor handle firearms. My issue comes when the person or persons who get to decide who is allowed to own and or handle firearms comes into question. You I might can agree with, but Barrack Obama? Or Maxine Waters? Henry Waxman?

    A national policy on carry permits seems awesome until the actual details come into question. My particular state allows anyone who can pass a background check to get a permit. South Carolina demands one take some class and I believe pass a test, I don't see a national standard to be any less, on the whole this aint bad but when the federal govt certifies those class givers and force the price of said class to $300 to $500 or even $1000 is that going to be ok? I much prefer the Vermont stance.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Look at the system in place to govern the testing / issuance of Amateur radio licences by the Federal Government, one of the only Government run operations with little to no problems.
    Volunteers do the testing at a nominal cost to the test taker, if a Nationwide CCW class was run in the same way as with Amateur radio, there would be few problems and few complaints, and check out the legal penalties for false distress calls and operating and unlicensed Amateur radio operation, almost as bad as illegal possession of an automatic firearm.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,177 Senior Member
    While I find it burdensome to put up with the various states "requirements" and agree that the Vermont model is certainly preferable...However, I remember a time not long ago when the only folks in most states that could carry were political cronies and others who "knew" someone...we have made great strides with the advent of "shall issue" even though some states are definitely using it for a cash cow... Like it or not, having to prove some degree of competence is, in most states, is considered a "reasonable restriction" by those we elected to make the rules. The whole law-abiding citizen thing can be such a pain sometimes...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    I agree, as well as the concept of paying ones debt to society, if you have ever once run afoul of the law, and been to prison, you never really pay off your debt if if you are prohibited from owning fires permanently.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • tv_racin_fantv_racin_fan Senior Member Posts: 617 Senior Member
    IF we are going to have restrictions or gun control, then I am resigned to such and have no issue with reasonable restrictions. I'll vote against them when I can and vote for politicians who vote against them.

    The issue as I see it is who gets to decide what is reasonable? Are 10 round magazines reasonable? Some would claim that if you can not get whatever job done in 10 rounds then surely you can reload, some would claim that 10 rounds is to many and why not go down to the 6 in a revolver. Some would argue that it would be reasonable to restrict the civilian/citizen to a musket or single shot firearm.

    Honestly IF the majority voted and agreed that the single shot firearm was the limit I would have no real complaint so long as I could carry a brace of sea service pistols a couple of knives and a tomahawk. I'd have no problem limiting my hunting to strictly flintlock firearms in the single barrel form. BUT that ain't reasonable to most. Oh some would say yeah I could live with a revolver or two and a bolt action rifle and pump shotgun limited to 4 or 5 rounds. Would that be considered reasonable restriction to most here? It aint reasonable in my opinion but I could live with it until I could get it changed the same as I live with the restrictions we have now.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,695 Senior Member
    I have to agree wth most of what tv_racin-fan said on this subject.

    I'll mostly abide by the law, even though I disagree with it, but I'm voting for the politicians that say that the government is not qualified to, nor should it be empowered to decide which of its citizens it will 'allow to carry a gun.'

    Sure, if a potential tragedy can be averted by enforcing a bad law that is still on the books, a sane person will do just that. But, we have to keep trying to roll back the governments penchant for ignoring the Constitution.

    Besides, we have millions of people of similar mentality driving 2 tons of steel down the road, texting or talking on a cell phone, who don't even have the agility to walk and chew gum at the same time.
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 2,291 Senior Member
    My understanding is that the peculiar atmospherics that are the result of mall air conditioning greatly changes point of impact. He just needed more time to adjust to another environment and he would have been shooting bullseyes. Or the extra trauma plates duct taped to his back unbalanced him.

    Quit makin fun of me.............those trauma plates are there for my safety! :tissue:
    Beware of false knowledge -- it is often more dangerous than ignorance.
  • SlanteyedshootistSlanteyedshootist Senior Member Posts: 3,947 Senior Member
    The imbalance caused by extra back trauma plates can be counteracted by duct taping trauma plates to your thighs. It's especially important when using a Serpa holster.
    The answer to 1984 is 1776
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,180 Senior Member
    I'm with BP on this one. We aren't born with the innate knowledge of firearms and firearms safety; it is a learned skill. We learn by doing under the instruction of one who knows how to do the task. With some good instruction from a patient person, that guy/gal could become proficient in both safety and accuracy with firearms. We all learned to drive by someone instructing us, after all.:tooth:

    Edit to add: Although there are some students that prove unteachable.
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



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