Dad was right....Observations from CCW Class...

2»

Replies

  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    I'm with BP on this one. We aren't born with the innate knowledge of firearms and firearms safety; it is a learned skill. We learn by doing under the instruction of one who knows how to do the task. With some good instruction from a patient person, that guy/gal could become proficient in both safety and accuracy with firearms. We all learned to drive by someone instructing us, after all.:tooth:

    Edit to add: Although there are some students that prove unteachable.

    I am a firm believer in that doctrine, that is why I loved working as a firearms Instructor, it was a privilege and an honor to have so many fine students....
    We can either complain or be part of the solution.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    racin fan has some points but that's reality as it now exists. We have conceal carry permits in most states now, and they make a modest sort of sense, if you assume that some sort of carry restrictions are reasonable in our complex society. I'm not comfortable with all of the restrictions, even here in Texas, but this is where I live.

    We all have to accept some restrictions in our life, or we simply need to move to some wilderness and live as hermits. Anytime we live together, however, we'll have rules to follow and some of them chafe.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • olesniperolesniper Senior Member Posts: 3,737 Senior Member
    BPsniper wrote: »
    Just shows that good decision are still made in this country. Somebody needs to take that man under their wing and teach him the true purpose and use of firearms. From recreation to defense. He could use a little knowledge and help, it would seem.

    Best thing that could happen.....if he listens. Sometimes you run into the "I know everything" types, that are beyond help. Advice, instruction, and hints, go in one ear and out the other. Probably took the guy 4 tries, just to pass his driving test.
    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
    I will fear no evil: For I carry a .308 and not a .270
  • temmitemmi Member Posts: 230 Member
    After giving this entirely too much thought, I believe the student ask some good questions:
    “"How many guns can I carry?"
    "Can I carry a sawed off shotgun?"
    "What if I want to carry an AR pistol?"
    "Can I carry concealed knives (plural)?””

    Some of this should be covered in the “manual” but they are sometimes hard to fully understand, hence the class.

    As far as the “Shoot/Don’t Shoot” quiz I hope the instructor took time to explain why his answers were wrong, if the instructor felt he was trying to be disruptive, he should have been dismissed.

    He should have been dismissed after the 2nd range violation.

    IMO
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    "He should have been dismissed after the 2nd range violation."

    I would have cut him from the general class and charged him for private lessons.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,096 Senior Member
    Indeed sir.

    I understand that there are indeed some who should not own nor handle firearms. My issue comes when the person or persons who get to decide who is allowed to own and or handle firearms comes into question. You I might can agree with, but Barrack Obama? Or Maxine Waters? Henry Waxman?

    A national policy on carry permits seems awesome until the actual details come into question. My particular state allows anyone who can pass a background check to get a permit. South Carolina demands one take some class and I believe pass a test, I don't see a national standard to be any less, on the whole this aint bad but when the federal govt certifies those class givers and force the price of said class to $300 to $500 or even $1000 is that going to be ok? I much prefer the Vermont stance.

    I believe every state in the union should be a "shall issue" state...provided you can pass a safety evaluation.

    In normal gun ownership, you possess a firearm in one of three environments:

    1. Home
    2. Gun Range
    3. Hunting grounds

    What do these three have in common? You are not in the public environment. But when you carry in to a setting like a grocery store, mega-mart, etc., you are now possessing a firearm in the company of people who may or may not be gun savvy and may or may not be irrationally frightned at the sight of one and would have NO earthly idea how to react--other than scream and point fingers--if it was discharged. You need to be the harbinger of gun dafety when you carry in public and if you cannot do that, you need to leave your gun at home. It frightens me that these gun-toting liabilites walk around in public...some like ticking timebombs.

    Just my 2 cents...not right, not wrong.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • tv_racin_fantv_racin_fan Senior Member Posts: 617 Senior Member
    Taking a class or passing a test doesn't make anyone safe. Note the number of auto accidents, we have all seen drivers we thought shouldn't be allowed on the road. yet they were forced to take and pass a test before they got their permit to drive. OR they drive without the permit the same as criminals carry without permission to do so.

    I like BP's approach. Take em under your wing and teach em. Seems better than letting em watch TV or play video games and think they have a clue.
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,096 Senior Member
    Taking a class or passing a test doesn't make anyone safe. Note the number of auto accidents, we have all seen drivers we thought shouldn't be allowed on the road. yet they were forced to take and pass a test before they got their permit to drive. OR they drive without the permit the same as criminals carry without permission to do so.

    I like BP's approach. Take em under your wing and teach em. Seems better than letting em watch TV or play video games and think they have a clue.

    Im not advocating shunning them. Yes, by all means teach them. They need to know if they are deadset on carrying a firearm. If they are unlearnable, however, well, that's a different matter.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • swetilyswetily Banned Posts: 35 Member
    the old fool should have had his face slapped off of his head for making guntoters look bad, right there, he did enough to justify taking his gun "rights".
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    "It frightens me that these gun-toting liabilites walk around in public...some like ticking timebombs.

    Just my 2 cents...not right, not wrong."

    Some of those "gun-toting liabilites" were My fellow LEO's back in the day.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • swetilyswetily Banned Posts: 35 Member
    oh, yeah. I can count on my fingers the number of men I"d feel ok about having guns in their hands, walking behind me in a hostile environment, and I"ve been at this for 45 years now, have competed in over 150 IPSC matches, etc. I know a great many of the gun writers, smiths, and top combat competitors, and buddy, I am not impressed with 90+ % of them, or 99.9% of cops, when it comes to gun-capability or holding their nerve under stress.
  • BPsniperBPsniper Banned Posts: 1,961 Senior Member
    swetily wrote: »
    oh, yeah. I can count on my fingers the number of men I"d feel ok about having guns in their hands, walking behind me in a hostile environment, and I"ve been at this for 45 years now, have competed in over 150 IPSC matches, etc. I know a great many of the gun writers, smiths, and top combat competitors, and buddy, I am not impressed with 90+ % of them, or 99.9% of cops, when it comes to gun-capability or holding their nerve under stress.

    I am intrigued.
    "....the true general purpose big-game cartridges used in this country come in but two calibers, .30 and 7mm. (the .270 Win. is merely a slightly aberrant 7mm whose bullets are .007" undersize.) -Finn Aagaard - American Rifleman, December 1986
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 14,829 Senior Member
    BPsniper wrote: »
    I am intrigued.
    :popcorn: +1
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • ADRidgeADRidge Member Posts: 173 Member
    swetily wrote: »
    oh, yeah. I can count on my fingers the number of men I"d feel ok about having guns in their hands, walking behind me in a hostile environment, and I"ve been at this for 45 years now, have competed in over 150 IPSC matches, etc. I know a great many of the gun writers, smiths, and top combat competitors, and buddy, I am not impressed with 90+ % of them, or 99.9% of cops, when it comes to gun-capability or holding their nerve under stress.

    So ISPC=combat? You're a tool and an Internet tough guy. Go away, troll.
    In space no one can hear you scream... but if you put a helicopter up there, some jerk would complain about the noise!
  • BPsniperBPsniper Banned Posts: 1,961 Senior Member
    ADRidge wrote: »
    So ISPC=combat? You're a tool and an Internet tough guy. Go away, troll.
    No, no, no. No, no. He can stay. This is going to get good. I want to hear more. I am tingling with excitement. Just listen. Can you hear it? Anticipation. Oh, this is good stuff.

    Just feed the line, boys. Feed the line.
    "....the true general purpose big-game cartridges used in this country come in but two calibers, .30 and 7mm. (the .270 Win. is merely a slightly aberrant 7mm whose bullets are .007" undersize.) -Finn Aagaard - American Rifleman, December 1986
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 14,829 Senior Member
    ADRidge wrote: »
    So ISPC=combat? You're a tool and an Internet tough guy. Go away, troll.

    But you're forgetting his lightning fast draw that literally stuns the bad guys....

    BG#1: "Holy Crap!...did you see that fast draw?"
    BG#2: " Yeah...I'm stunned...literally.."
    BG#1: " I think I might have beshat myself..."
    BG#2: "Perhaps we should flee"
    BG#1: "Good idea, I gotta find some toilet paper anyway"
    BG#2: "Be sure to duck and dodge, he looks like the kinda guy that would shoot you in the back of the head."
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • Bob & WifeBob & Wife New Member Posts: 1 New Member
    Just a thought! As soon as I could I worked 'one on one' with both my sons, showing them how to use power tools. While they were young and respected dads authority they learned to use every power tool I owned. Now they're in their 30's and use their tools with the safty and respect they were taught as children. Firearms are tools to be carefully used and enjoyed.
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,458 Senior Member
    Ohhhh I do hope this one stays around for a little while!!!!
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • swetilyswetily Banned Posts: 35 Member
    yes, they are, but a lot of people have no sense. They destroy their own bodies with fatty, sweet foods, lack of exercise, dope, booze, tobaccor, caffiene. And you want them runnin g around with guns? How many can even drive a car worth a hoot, hmm?

    Jim Cirillo, noted gunfighter, is on record as saying that he felt more stress in IPSC matches than he ever did in a gun fight. How well have YOU done in combat pistol matches, dude? Ever been in the top 10% at national or world shoots? :-) THEN you feel the pressure. If guys screw up under "mere" match stress, so badly as to drop guns, forget to disegage or reengage safeties, run with finger inside of the trigger guard, not even notice that a slide is locked back, etc, what do you think that they will do in a combat scenarios, hmm?

    I've held men at gunpoint 4x, how about you? All 4 froze in place. I was going to empty the mag into their chests if they didn't, and they could tell that was the case, simple as that. Anyone who can read can look at the Armed Citizen column, the Dept of Justice Crime survey, Klecks' survey of defensive uses of firearms, etc and see that shots rarely have to hit BG';s to make them flee. If I had a solid weaver on you, holding a .45 lw Commander, YOU'D try something right, idiot? :-) Why would I care? You'd be where you belong, in less than 1/2 second.
  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,324 Senior Member
    swetily wrote: »
    oh, yeah. I can count on my fingers the number of men I"d feel ok about having guns in their hands, walking behind me in a hostile environment, and I"ve been at this for 45 years now, have competed in over 150 IPSC matches, etc. I know a great many of the gun writers, smiths, and top combat competitors, and buddy, I am not impressed with 90+ % of them, or 99.9% of cops, when it comes to gun-capability or holding their nerve under stress.

    While there is some validity, very little that is, you sure make some brash statements for someone with little credibility. You don't know who here has what skill sets and mind sets. There are a couple here who most would have no problem with firing a weapon from behind, over their head, through the legs or such if the situation dictated.

    Oh yeah, when did combat become a game with "competitors" ... combat is a life and death battle.
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
2»
Sign In or Register to comment.
Magazine Cover

GET THE MAGAZINE Subscribe & Save

Temporary Price Reduction

SUBSCRIBE NOW

Give a Gift   |   Subscriber Services

PREVIEW THIS MONTH'S ISSUE

GET THE NEWSLETTER Join the List and Never Miss a Thing.

Get the top Guns & Ammo stories delivered right to your inbox every week.