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Time for an honest discussioin on Glock pistols

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  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Never heard of a 'Cobra' brand, right up with Jennings and Lorcin junk.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    The Army jeeps I'm familiar with, the M115A1, were not subject to overturning, IIRC. I was in a Mech unit for a year, and a Motor Officer. The "gun jeeps" which were sprung to carry the 106mm Recoiless Rifles, when the guns were dismounted, were bad to turn over. Still, you needed to be careful.

    I remember special training for jeeps and plenty of warnings in the Army and I drove one fer years until we turned them in fer hummers..

    Much like some smaller SUVs. I never had an issues with the ones I drove, but I sure saw plenty of wrecked ones and even one full of MPs pass my M113 APC on a German road, driver yanked the steering wheel to get back in our lane. They appeared to be shook up pretty bad, all thrown out as it rolled over. I let off the pedal and pulled my laterals back to avoid hitting them. I did crush their antenna laying in the road in my lane. We were on an alert and hauling buggy toward the Fulda Gap, others stopped and we were motioned to keep going so I didn't get a chance to talk to the MPs.

    http://www.fairwarning.org/2000/09/nhtsa-inaction-on-rollover-issue-seen-as-typical/



    "Nearly 30 years ago, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration put the brakes on an Army plan to sell off thousands of surplus jeeps.

    The M151 jeeps, which had been involved in scores of fatal accidents, were so prone to flipping over that Army drivers were given special cautionary training. The Army planned to give civilian buyers this protection: A decal on each jeep to warn of the rollover risk.

    Nothing doing, NHTSA said. “We do not believe that the handling problem, a propensity to roll over without warning to the user that rollover is imminent, can be adequately guarded against through the use of warnings,” NHTSA administrator Douglas W. Toms wrote the Army in 1971.

    Yet what the agency deemed unacceptable then is reality today.

    More than 10,000 Americans died last year in rollover crashes, the most in at least a decade, due at least partly to the boom in rollover-prone sport-utility vehicles and other light trucks. But from a stability standpoint, manufacturers are free to design their vehicles any way they choose, because NHTSA, despite several attempts, has been unable to set a minimum standard for rollover resistance.
    - See more at:

    http://www.fairwarning.org/2000/09/nhtsa-inaction-on-rollover-issue-seen-as-typical/#sthash.ZkiaP6dN.dpuf
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 11,696 Senior Member
    If you remember the Jeep, I bet you remember the Gama Goat
    Now that sucker would go anywhere, but was easy to roll on pavement and was a death trap if you did

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gama_Goat
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Diver43 wrote: »
    If you remember the Jeep, I bet you remember the Gama Goat
    Now that sucker would go anywhere, but was easy to roll on pavement and was a death trap if you did

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gama_Goat


    I hated them darn things with a passion. I hated riding in the back, driving or even looking at them. Loud and dangerous!

    We did used the batteries to set of some homemade shape-charges in the Graf training area demo range....Pepsi cans/C-4/popsicle sticks/blasting caps/det cord/electrical fuse

    And I remember they USED to tell us to look away when crimping the blasting caps (later changed so to look at what you were doing... DUH) and only use Sergeants (?) brand crimping pliers!
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    PROPHESY: Within 5 years, Glock will introduce a generation 5, 6 or whatever pistol with a frame mounted thumb safety, a grip safety, or a SA/DA mechanism complete with a de-cocker for its partially pre-cocked striker. Or, better yet, a combination of a grip safety and either one of the other two.

    Five years, mark your calendars, you heard it here first.
  • EliEli Senior Member Posts: 3,074 Senior Member
    horselips wrote: »

    Five years, mark your calendars, you heard it here first.


    Ummmm, suuuurrrreee.

    :roll:
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,954 Senior Member
    I wouldn't be upset with the option for a grip safety.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    NN wrote: »
    I wouldn't be upset with the option for a grip safety.

    They will make whatever market research points them to and that very well may be an option, especially for the American market. So far they have done a tremendous job selling their line of pistols, worldwide.

    They are a good product, rugged and reliable. I won't argue that point....Fugly, but who is looking :tooth:
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,336 Senior Member
    Putting a grip safety on a Glock is like putting seat belts on a motorcycle.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • JKPJKP Senior Member Posts: 2,402 Senior Member
    horselips wrote: »
    PROPHESY: Within 5 years, Glock will introduce a generation 5, 6 or whatever pistol with a frame mounted thumb safety, a grip safety, or a SA/DA mechanism complete with a de-cocker for its partially pre-cocked striker. Or, better yet, a combination of a grip safety and either one of the other two.

    Five years, mark your calendars, you heard it here first.

    Will it still cost them $3.29 to build the pistol since it is all plastic junk?
  • SlanteyedshootistSlanteyedshootist Senior Member Posts: 3,947 Senior Member
    JKP wrote: »
    Will it still cost them $3.29 to build the pistol since it is all plastic junk?

    And will pass undetected through metal scanners.:tooth:
    The answer to 1984 is 1776
  • EliEli Senior Member Posts: 3,074 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    Putting a grip safety on a Glock is like putting seat belts on a motorcycle.

    :that:

    It is my OPINION, that there is no reason to have a thumb safety on a defensive handgun.

    It is an indisputable ( :tooth: ) FACT, that grip safeties on a defensive handgun are just idiotic.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 25,777 Senior Member
    Eli wrote: »
    :that:

    It is my OPINION, that there is no reason to have a thumb safety on a defensive handgun.

    It is an indisputable ( :tooth: ) FACT, that grip safeties on a defensive handgun are just idiotic.

    :that:

    its-science-anchorman.gif
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,954 Senior Member
    So a pistol with a thumb safety is an offensive weapon, I suppose so look at the 1911, CZ, Sig
    and so on.

    I guess a grip safety is bad too, look at the XDm, can't rack the slide without the grip safety depressed.

    Don't have to use the thumb safety and could tape the grip safety down.

    Why not just learn how to use your handgun or get a different one.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,336 Senior Member
    The National Rifleman a few issues back had 1911s of the Texas Rangers from years past. About half of them had a rawhide string around them disabling the grip safety. I'm just saying.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,692 Senior Member
    Jeff Cooper had his personal 1911s modified with the grip safety pinned down...
    Overkill is underrated.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 25,777 Senior Member
    Jeff Cooper had his personal 1911s modified with the grip safety pinned down...

    I have considered doing that to my 1911s as well.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • EliEli Senior Member Posts: 3,074 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    If I had ever had a grip safety fail me I would too but it has NEVER happened so it does not bother me.


    I've never had it happen.......when the gun is equipped with an arched MSH and a memory bump on the grip safety. Guns with flat MSHs and smooth grip safeties don't like me very much though. I tend to grip very high on the gun, without the arched MSH angling the web of my hand into the pistol, I find myself actually pushing UP on the underside of the grip safety, instead of pushing FORWARDS into the gun.

    If I'm thinking about it I don't have any problems, it has however, happened enough times that carrying one would give me serious hesitation.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    BTW meant to tell you, great thread BC :cool2:

    Why thank you, I've enjoyed most of it so far :tooth:

    And thanks everyone for your input. I've gotten an earful and some insights on Glocks I didn't have beforehand. And lots of OPINIONS :wink:
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    Putting a grip safety on a Glock is like putting seat belts on a motorcycle.

    Good one, funny analogy Gene.

    I remember in Afghanistan they made us wear seat-belts in a Gator and we were thunking what difference would it make if an MRAP or Jingle truck crushed you.

    Like when I attended a briefing where they put put out it was mandatory to wear reflective belts after dark, no exceptions anytime you were outside (this is on/inside Bagram Base) then the next sentence was to be careful snipers have been reported in the area...........:yikes::yikes:
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    And will pass undetected through metal scanners.:tooth:

    Yes, but if they had a metal grip safety attached alarm bells/sirens would go off :jester: :devil:
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,865 Senior Member
    The grip safety has always seemed meaningless to me, but I have never considered disabling it.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,336 Senior Member
    Nowadays, the beaver tail grip safety has eliminated a lot of grip safety problems.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    The grip safety has always seemed meaningless to me, but I have never considered disabling it.

    Defeating a factory safety device could create issues in today's litigious atmosphere and with over zealous prosecutors.

    Sadly, it wouldn't matter if the defeated safety could have prevented said shooting or remotely had anything to do with it, they would try to paint the owner as reckless and one who ignored his own safety and that of others by defeating a factory installed safety device.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    Nowadays, the beaver tail grip safety has eliminated a lot of grip safety problems.

    I've never had an issue with grip safeties on .45s, remember it was added as to "GI Proof" the 1911, yes?
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,865 Senior Member
    IF, I thought something changed would improve my survivability or that of others, I would do it without hesitation.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,954 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    I've never had an issue with grip safeties on .45s, remember it was added as to "GI Proof" the 1911, yes?
    If that was the reason, it did not work!
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,692 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    I've never had an issue with grip safeties on .45s, remember it was added as to "GI Proof" the 1911, yes?
    That was the thumb safety. The 1910 and original prototype 1911s had no thumb safety, but the cavalry asked for a thumb safety. Makes easier to render "safe" and not shoot your horse.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    That was the thumb safety. The 1910 and original prototype 1911s had no thumb safety, but the cavalry asked for a thumb safety. Makes easier to render "safe" and not shoot your horse.

    Correct, It originally was specified by the Army to have one, not added later, I stand corrected. I was thinking the Army demanded a grip safety in its specifications.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    NN wrote: »
    If that was the reason, it did not work!

    You are right, it's impossible to GI proof anything 100%. Or "Civilian proof" either.

    I know of three instances of a .45 going bang (AD/ND) when while I was on active duty.

    A major was bored late at night and had duty in Ops Center in Germany, he was twirling his loaded .45 around and it went off and blew a hole through an expensive STU Secure telephone.

    A pay guard/SP4 in my platoon was supposed to be clearing his .45 and did the ole drop the mag and pulled the trigger to clear it routine without clearing/checking the chamber. It went through his kneecap.

    Someone unfamiliar with guns picked up my Springfield armory .45 off a desk less than 10 feet away from me which was in condition III (mag loaded and inserted, empty chamber) and before any of us could stop him had racked the slide and pulled the trigger, it blew out a window. Thank God no one was hurt. I was still in the Army at the time, he was a civilian who may of had a stint earlier, I don't remember.


    The other was unrelated to 1911s, a contractor in Iraq using an H&K 12 shot .45 I loaned him to go out the gate and who said he used to be a Cop/Jailer in Atlanta blew a hole in the asphalt 'Clearing" it when he got back.


    All the above instances could have been avoided by following gun safety/handling procedures.

    Would there have been more AD/ND without grip safeties/external safeties......probably knowing GIs like I do, anything can and will happen.

    They (above) all managed to circumvent the safety devices or used improper clearing procedures in the incidents above and all of them could have been avoided.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
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