Arizona Sheriff: Inmates Who Defaced Flags to Get Only Bread and Water

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Replies

  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,147 Senior Member
    As a LEO you should probably know that Jails are primarily used to hold the accused until trial. After sentencing the convicted are typically transferred to a prison unless it is a relatively minor crime and short sentence. Sheriff Joe only has jurisdiction over the jail so yes most of the people in his custody have not yet been convicted or were convicted of minor crimes. True many of them probably will be convicted at some point, but we do have something in this country called due process of law. It's in that old document so many of you talk about with such reverence. I believe it is in the 5th amendment? I know that one doesn't get much play with "tough on crime" conservatives, but maybe you guys should read it again just for fun.
    Gee, aren't you the snarky one. I was employed by the county police dept., not the sheriff's office, which was in charge of the county jail. I only saw the system from the input side, and was not involved with the containment side of the legal system, so I will admit I could be wrong about the percentages of people housed in the jail. What I said has nothing to do with the constitution or the 5th amendment. Instead of lecturing me, maybe you should have a discussion about the constitution with your progressive friends who are trying to limit it's influence on the way it was supposed to contain rather than expand the power of the federal government regarding the 1st, 2nd, 4th and 10th amendments. Arpaio is an elected official, so I guess he will play politics for his base just like the left does even more effectively.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,743 Senior Member
    Gee, aren't you the snarky one. I was employed by the county police dept., not the sheriff's office, which was in charge of the county jail. I only saw the system from the input side, and was not involved with the containment side of the legal system, so I will admit I could be wrong about the percentages of people housed in the jail. What I said has nothing to do with the constitution or the 5th amendment. Instead of lecturing me, maybe you should have a discussion about the constitution with your progressive friends who are trying to limit it's influence on the way it was supposed to contain rather than expand the power of the federal government regarding the 1st, 2nd, 4th and 10th amendments. Arpaio is an elected official, so I guess he will play politics for his base just like the left does even more effectively.

    Liberals don't have a monopoly on assaulting the constitution. Plenty of conservatives have little respect for the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, or 14th amendments.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,106 Senior Member
    Alpha, you're missing a BIG point about being in jail, whether a convicted person or one awaiting trial. YOUR RIGHTS have been severely curtailed due to your being in jail. You have no choice in what you wear, what and when you eat, and your movement is extremely limited. Breaking the rules the particular jail has in force can add charges to your 'rap sheet' and cause you even more limited choices in your daily life. As it should be. Convicted or charged and awaiting trial, you are no longer a free person and subject to a different set of rules. About all the Constitution protects you from is cruel and unusual punishment at this point. Can't handle that, then don't act like an animal and get put in a cage. Seems simple enough.
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,147 Senior Member
    Liberals don't have a monopoly on assaulting the constitution. Plenty of conservatives have little respect for the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, or 14th amendments.
    Oh, yes they do! Really, do you have a graph for that one? Yeah, but progresso-libs seem to be the biggest and most obvious offenders. I also don't see how the 6th and the 14th is violated. "Speedy" trials are not had because of the volume of crime and the courts inability to schedule a "speedy" one. On the 14th amendment and the immigration issue, all you progresso-libs want to do is flood the country with illegals to change the voting ratio to your advantage.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,743 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    There was STEEP population growth in that same period of time in Maricopa county and Forbes had 4 Maricopa towns in their top 10 growing municipalities in the USA in 2007. Almost 1/3 of the population is Latino and 1 in 5 households speaks only Spanish at home. Funny neither you nor the creators of the slide go out of their way to mention either fact. Kind of makes you think it was just put together to make ol' Joe look bad huh? Certainly gives your last graph a slightly different tone does it not?

    Good job Wambli. That is true and in fact the last graph is intentionally misleading in that it uses raw crime numbers over a period or rapid growth vs. rates (which take into account population) like the first two graphs. In reality the crime rate has stayed relatively flat for most of Joe's tenure which makes for a pretty boring argument.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,743 Senior Member
    Oh, yes they do! Really, do you have a graph for that one? Yeah, but progresso-libs seem to be the biggest and most obvious offenders. I also don't see how the 6th and the 14th is violated. "Speedy" trials are not had because of the volume of crime and the courts inability to schedule a "speedy" one. On the 14th amendment and the immigration issue, all you progresso-libs want to do is flood the country with illegals to change the voting ratio to your advantage.

    The patriot act takes some serious swipes at the 6th amendment as long as you are a "terror suspect". Indefinite detention anyone?

    There has been a strong conservative movement to repeal the 14th amendment. The idea that a person born in this country should be a citizen is apparently a massive threat to our nation. Of course the real threat that those seeking to repeal the 14th amendment is the issue that it extends constitutional protections to non citizens.
    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,106 Senior Member
    The patriot act takes some serious swipes at the 6th amendment as long as you are a "terror suspect". Indefinite detention anyone?

    There has been a strong conservative movement to repeal the 14th amendment. The idea that a person born in this country should be a citizen is apparently a massive threat to our nation. Of course the real threat that those seeking to repeal the 14th amendment is the issue that it extends constitutional protections to non citizens.

    The 14th SHOULD be changed. You slam the people wanting it changed, but are OBVIOUSLY CLUELESS as to the same situation across the border in Mexico, and other countries, generally. Look up what being born in Mexico to non-Mexican citizens means. I'll just save you the time. WE, the U.S., are one of VERY FEW COUNTRIES, that makes a person born in the country a citizen regardless of the citizenship of the parents. MEXICO IS NOT ONE OF THOSE COUNTRIES! And if you're REALLY curious, look up what it takes for a U.S. citizen to get permission to legally work in Mexico.

    Your seeming lack of information on such simple to find information is mind boggling at times.
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,743 Senior Member
    but...but...but...it's in the Constitution!
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • Pelagic KayakerPelagic Kayaker Banned Posts: 1,503 Senior Member
    ...On the 14th amendment and the immigration issue, all you progresso-libs want to do is flood the country with illegals to change the voting ratio to your advantage.

    Well said.
    "The reflection upon my situation and that of this army produces many an uneasy hour when all around me are wrapped in sleep. Few people know the predicament we are in" ~General George Washington, January 14, 1776
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,743 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    WE, the U.S., are one of VERY FEW COUNTRIES, that makes a person born in the country a citizen regardless of the citizenship of the parents. MEXICO IS NOT ONE OF THOSE COUNTRIES!

    Yes it is

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli

    Virtually every country in the "New World" including Mexico grants birthright citizenship. It probably has to do with the fact that with the exception of the small percentage who are still 100% Native American, every single one of us who live in this Hemisphere has ancestors who were immigrants.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,106 Senior Member
    Yes it is

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli

    Virtually every country in the "New World" including Mexico grants birthright citizenship. It probably has to do with the fact that with the exception of the small percentage who are still 100% Native American, every single one of us who live in this Hemisphere has ancestors who were immigrants.

    You best read that wiki entry again. You're AGAIN reading into something that which is NOT THERE! Bad Alpha; no cookie for you!
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • Pelagic KayakerPelagic Kayaker Banned Posts: 1,503 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    You best read that wiki entry again. You're AGAIN reading into something that which is NOT THERE!

    It's not his fault! He's a liberal.
    "The reflection upon my situation and that of this army produces many an uneasy hour when all around me are wrapped in sleep. Few people know the predicament we are in" ~General George Washington, January 14, 1776
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,743 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    You best read that wiki entry again. You're AGAIN reading into something that which is NOT THERE! Bad Alpha; no cookie for you!

    What am I missing? Mexico is clearly on the list. They are also on this list:

    https://www.numbersusa.com/content/learn/issues/birthright-citizenship/nations-granting-birthright-citizenship.html

    You are however correct that most so called developed nations do not grant birthright citizenship, but nearly all of those nations have also been around (at least the same lineage of people living on the same land even if the name or borders changed) for thousands of years while just about everyone in this baby nation is a decedent of immigrants of some kind. I will also note that many of those nations also ban or severely limit firearm ownership so the argument that everyone else does it so we should too is equally invalid.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,147 Senior Member
    The patriot act takes some serious swipes at the 6th amendment as long as you are a "terror suspect". Indefinite detention anyone?

    There has been a strong conservative movement to repeal the 14th amendment. The idea that a person born in this country should be a citizen is apparently a massive threat to our nation. Of course the real threat that those seeking to repeal the 14th amendment is the issue that it extends constitutional protections to non citizens.

    I don't like the Patriot Act or the NDAA. I thought it was good idea initially, but I've changed my mind because it's been abused. Regarding the 14th Amendment, there are a lot of people who believe it was intended to protect the children of slaves after the civil war, before illegal aliens became the center of it. I also think that it should be changed to specify children of at least one parent who is a citizen. Illegals are exploiting the loophole in this law.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,147 Senior Member
    Liberals don't have a monopoly on assaulting the constitution. Plenty of conservatives have little respect for the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, or 14th amendments.
    Yeah, there is enough hypocrisy to go around. At least I don't hear Republicans openly endorsing violations of the constitution on national TV like the progresso-libs do all the time. You are also confusing real conservatives with the brand of conservatism exhibited by RINO/Neocons like John McCain, Lindsey Graham, Mitch McConnell, Lamar Alexander, Peter King, John Boehner, and MANY others. Those people are Progressive Republicans, the type who want more government control, not less. True conservatives do not want to take away peoples rights. I would offer examples of that by mentioning Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, Mike Lee and Louie Gomert.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    I think we should have invaded Mexico a long time ago, around the Pancho Villa era and either kept control of it or did a Marshal Plan with it. Nothing but headaches for us.

    Mexico and corruption are synonymous and it hasn't gotten any better over the years. The sorry Mexican GOVT needs to clean up its act for starters.

    I see border wars on TV and it never seems to end. Look at all the drugs they find coming in, don't they even bother to stop/search vehicles headed our way on their side of the border?
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,743 Senior Member
    I don't like the Patriot Act or the NDAA. I thought it was good idea initially, but I've changed my mind because it's been abused. Regarding the 14th Amendment, there are a lot of people who believe it was intended to protect the children of slaves after the civil war, before illegal aliens became the center of it. I also think that it should be changed to specify children of at least one parent who is a citizen. Illegals are exploiting the loophole in this law.

    What about legal immigrants who aren't citizens?
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,106 Senior Member
    Jeez, you read it and STILL don't get the difference between a refugee and an ILLEGAL ALIEN sneaking across the border ILLEGALLY?

    You're being so obtuse:

    you_make_bunny_cry_zpsb69e03cb.jpg
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,743 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    Jeez, you read it and STILL don't get the difference between a refugee and an ILLEGAL ALIEN sneaking across the border ILLEGALLY?

    You're being so obtuse:

    you_make_bunny_cry_zpsb69e03cb.jpg

    We must be talking about two completely different things. In the link I posted there is zero reference to the word "refugee" or restrictions on birthright citizenship in Mexico. If you have link or text that says Mexico restricts or does not allow birthright citizenship please step up. If you're talking about something else please clue me in because making vague references and saying I'm wrong isn't an argument. Maybe you can quote the text your think proves I'm an idiot.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,147 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    Jeez, you read it and STILL don't get the difference between a refugee and an ILLEGAL ALIEN sneaking across the border ILLEGALLY?

    You're being so obtuse:
    A synonym for progresso-liberalism. An irritant too.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,724 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    I see border wars on TV and it never seems to end. Look at all the drugs they find coming in, don't they even bother to stop/search vehicles headed our way on their side of the border?

    The American side doesn't search Americans headed south. There are large signs that tell Americans what is prohibited, but no searching. Coming back is a different story.
    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
  • Pelagic KayakerPelagic Kayaker Banned Posts: 1,503 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »

    You're being so obtuse:

    Lighten up Shawshank :jester:
    "The reflection upon my situation and that of this army produces many an uneasy hour when all around me are wrapped in sleep. Few people know the predicament we are in" ~General George Washington, January 14, 1776
  • Lucky DogLucky Dog Banned Posts: 26 New Member
    i called no one a name, i was just asking a simple question, maybe you missed seeing the "?" mark.
  • Lucky DogLucky Dog Banned Posts: 26 New Member
    Teach wrote: »
    "Lucky"?- - - - - - -sorta doubt it!

    "Dog"?- - - - - -definitely!
    Jerry

    WOW!! talk about calling names :rotflmao:
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,724 Senior Member
    What's a "significant percentage?" According to my experience in LE, the overwhelming majority of people arrested for crimes were either caught in the act, or identified by witnesses and not as a result of some after-the-fact investigation like you see on TV. Things may have changed in twenty-five years, but I doubt it. While there probably is some percentage of the accused awaiting trial, most of the people in the jail are convicted of crimes. Many of the accused for misdemeanors should be able to make bail, I would think. My remarks are primarily aimed at the convicted, and I am not as convinced as you seem to be that a significant percentage of jail residents are just awaiting trial. Maybe you could come up with some fancy graphs showing inmate population with percentages on convicted/waiting trial, like alpha likes to provide.

    No fancy graphs....

    I can't speculate on Joe's jail, but nationwide it is 61% jailed people are awaiting trial.
    https://www.aca.org/government/population.asp


    In NYC (YOUR old stomping grounds) 76% people in jail are awaiting trial.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/24/nyregion/citys-annual-cost-per-inmate-is-nearly-168000-study-says.html

    Does this quailfy as significant by your definition?

    If you want I can link 100's of cases of people that were falsely arrested by dirty cops. One quick example, Google Corporal Lisa Steed of the Utah Highway Patrol. She arrested dozens of people for DUI that hadn't been drinking. Utah gave her "Trooper of the Year" award for so many DUI arrests. Then they fired her for falsefying police reports.
    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    The American side doesn't search Americans headed south. There are large signs that tell Americans what is prohibited, but no searching. Coming back is a different story.

    Yes they do on suspicious vehicles and find millions in illegal money hidden like dope in bundles. The BP has a knack for which ones to stop when they sense something ain't quite right.

    Not every vehicle, of course, but they stop plenty.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,724 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    Yes they do on suspicious vehicles and find millions in illegal money hidden like dope in bundles. The BP has a knack for which ones to stop when they sense something ain't quite right.

    Not every vehicle, of course, but they stop plenty.

    It's been a few years, but crossing at TJ I never recall Americans being stopped heading south. Mexicans with BC plates were stopped often. I've been searched extensively by BP coming back to the US.
    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    I think it's called Border Wars on TV, shows the whole gambit illegals, dope coming in and vehicles trying to get lots of $$$$$ back to Mexico.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,147 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    No fancy graphs....
    I can't speculate on Joe's jail, but nationwide it is 61% jailed people are awaiting trial.
    https://www.aca.org/government/population.asp
    ........Does this quailfy as significant by your definition?

    If you want I can link 100's of cases of people that were falsely arrested by dirty cops.........

    It's OK, I already acknowledged I could have been wrong in a post responding to Alpha. I thought you would have seen it and is why I didn't change my original statement. Like I said in the previous post, in my old jurisdiction the Police Department handles law enforcement and the Sheriff's Department handles the county jail. That's why I was not as familiar with the statistics as you are after researching it. Also, I retired nearly 25 years ago and things could have been a lot different then regarding convictions and waiting for trial. BTW I did not work for NYC. I was out in the "burbs."
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
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