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I'll just leave this here.................

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  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,484 Senior Member
    I don't know what she was hit with. I'll try and remember to ask her dad tomorrow. She was actually hit 10 times, 3 on equipment. Most of the wounds were minor, the worst I think was in her shooting hand. She actually did her damage with her left hand after she was hit in the right. She finished the guy off with a head shot after he kept coming at her. To be fair I guess he was pretty huge.

    And I was joking about the 9mm. If I wanted to carry bigger, Id get a small .40. Just not enough difference in 9mm and .380 IMO. I am hoping the R51 comes out in .40 like they rumor.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,559 Senior Member
    My hat is off to her for staying in the fight. Major kudos!!!
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,559 Senior Member
    Could you by chance find out where she was hit the 7 times? This is not to be rude or morbid, this is strictly to learn more regarding terminal performance or the lack thereof. Regarding pistol rounds.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Dr. dbDr. db Senior Member Posts: 1,541 Senior Member
    Eli wrote: »
    There's really nothing wrong with the .380, it's just that people use them incorrectly.

    A .380 should go somewhere on your body that is designated for back-up use. In the event that your primary has gone down, you can't get to your assailant with your knife, and you can't get into cover to get your primary up and running again.......the .380 is perfect.



    The problem comes in when people stick a .380 in their pocket and think their carrying a gun. :tooth:
    So I CAN get a PPK (or Bersa) as long as I use it for a backup! SA-WEET!
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,887 Senior Member
    BAMAAK wrote: »
    I know a cop that hit a bad guy square in the chest with a .45 beratta and he kept coming.
    And? You're actually helping make the point that a handgun's a poor stopper....
    I'm just here for snark.
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,484 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    Could you by chance find out where she was hit the 7 times? This is not to be rude or morbid, this is strictly to learn more regarding terminal performance or the lack thereof. Regarding pistol rounds.

    I relayed what I remembered her dad told me. I was close but her is an article about her. Still does not say what caliber they used.

    http://www.policeone.com/police-heroes/articles/120351-Fla-officer-takes-10-rounds-to-save-children-her-own-life/.

    I'll get some details tomorrow.

    "Dzibinski's shots had hit her right knee, left ankle, left thigh, and left buttock. Jenkins' rounds had caught her in the right forearm, right shoulder, and left pinky finger. Her body had absorbed a total of seven bullets."

    http://www.policemag.com/channel/women-in-law-enforcement/articles/2006/01/shots-fired/page/4.aspx

    She was using speer hollowpoints according to the above article

    I do know they found rifles at the bad guys motel rooms but they left them behind. Her rookie partner did not fire a shot, he hid behind the car.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,559 Senior Member
    I think I read a briefing awhile back of an upstanding individual being shot multiple times with a .40 S&W or some such. Like 16-21 times or something like that.

    Gotta love a pistols performance. Ha!
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • EliEli Senior Member Posts: 3,074 Senior Member
    BAMAAK wrote:
    Yea because 9mm is SOOO much more powerful.


    I don't need it to be "SOOO much more powerful", just powerful enough.

    Regarding the "standard" test (10% F.B.I. spec ballistics gel) there isn't a single modern high quality defensive 9x19mm that DOESN'T meet the penetration AND expansion requirements, consistently. At the same time, there isn't a single modern high quality defensive 9x17mm that DOES meet the penetration AND expansion requirements, consistently.


    BAMAAK wrote: »
    Says who? Aren't more people killed with .22 than any other caliber?

    I could give a tinker's damn if it kills them. To be completely honest, I would prefer that they NOT die, I have no desire to kill anyone. However, if someone is attacking my loved ones or I, I want to stop them as close to #*#*ING IMMEDIATELY as scientifically possible. Since it isn't practical to carry a shotgun or carbine with me at all times, a double stack 9mm is about as good as I can do.

    Sorry, but a .380 just doesn't have a single thing going for it that would make me consider carrying one as a primary.....neither the cartridge or the platforms that it's offered in.
  • EliEli Senior Member Posts: 3,074 Senior Member
    Dr. db wrote: »
    So I CAN get a PPK (or Bersa) as long as I use it for a backup! SA-WEET!

    naturally.jpg

    :tooth:
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,484 Senior Member
    Eli wrote: »
    I don't need it to be "SOOO much more powerful", just powerful enough.

    Regarding the "standard" test (10% F.B.I. spec ballistics gel) there isn't a single modern high quality defensive 9x19mm that DOESN'T meet the penetration AND expansion requirements, consistently. At the same time, there isn't a single modern high quality defensive 9x17mm that DOES meet the penetration AND expansion requirements, consistently.

    I may be wrong but the FBI data is a few yrs old. like 4 or so. The reason is penetration which they set a min of 12 inches. Most high end 380 is above 11, but below 12. There are some newer rounds that are over 13 now, Remington golden saber is one, over 13 in "standard" ballistics gel. according to one test I saw. http://www.shootingillustrated.com/index.php/20806/new-life-for-the-380-acp/.

    Do I trust the FBI data? Yea as much as I trust anything the gov. does. These are the same people that led to the development of the .40 cal you so hate. Selective data acceptance?
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • EliEli Senior Member Posts: 3,074 Senior Member
    BAMAAK wrote: »
    These are the same people that led to the development of the .40 cal you so hate.

    The raw data from the .40S&W has never been in contention. It says right there on paper, the .40 performs virtually identical to its 9mm counterparts. The salesfolks however, are a completely different story.
    BAMAAK wrote: »
    Selective data acceptance?

    Dude, this is the internet.
    If you expect rational, unbiased, NON-selective, logical discussion......you're definitely in the wrong place. :tooth:
  • justin10mmjustin10mm Senior Member Posts: 688 Senior Member
    I think its interesting that the .36 cal '51 Navy revolver used by the most famous gun fighter of all time, Wild Bill Hickok, very closely mimics the modern .380s performance.
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,577 Senior Member
    BAMAAK wrote: »
    I know a cop that hit a bad guy square in the chest with a .45 beratta and he kept coming.

    Or the officer many moons ago gave a murderous perp all 6 slugs from his .357mag at contact range and still had to fight the sucker for another hard fought minute before blood loss took effect.

    Zee said it right...just no great terminal performance.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,559 Senior Member
    BAMAAK wrote: »
    Says who? Aren't more people killed with .22 than any other caliber? They are all deadly when applied to the proper body part.

    Consider the attempted assassination of Regan. Brady was shot in the head. A cop was shot in the back if the neck. A SS Agent was shot in the abdomen. Regan caught a ricochet that went through his arm, into his chest and lodged in his lung about an inch from his heart. This all done with a .22lr and nobody died.

    Food for thought and yes...........just one example of many. Both survived and not.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,559 Senior Member
    BAMAAK wrote: »
    I relayed what I remembered her dad told me. I was close but her is an article about her. Still does not say what caliber they used.

    http://www.policeone.com/police-heroes/articles/120351-Fla-officer-takes-10-rounds-to-save-children-her-own-life/.

    I'll get some details tomorrow.

    That same web site has an article about another officer shot 17 times during a shootout and eventually returning to active duty. Impressive determination.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,559 Senior Member
    I have witnessed/experienced/seen the less than stellar terminal performance of the .22 lr / .38 Spl / 9mm / .40 S&W / .45 ACP to realize that.............a rifle is mo betta!! :silly:
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • shootershooter Senior Member Posts: 1,186 Senior Member
    This might work. :up:

    bullet_500sampw.jpg
    There's no such thing as having too much ammo, unless you're on fire or trying to swim!
  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 8,365 Senior Member
    shooter wrote: »
    This might work. :up:

    bullet_500sampw.jpg

    Shouldn't that thing have wheels?..............
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,577 Senior Member
    orchidman wrote: »
    Shouldn't that thing have wheels?..............

    Here is the crew served version...

    img_5018-tfb.jpg
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • MississippiBoyMississippiBoy Senior Member Posts: 819 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    Here is the crew served version...

    img_5018-tfb.jpg

    Isn't that what the Joker (Jack Nicholson) used to shoot down the Batplane in the 198something Batman movie?

    300px-GP101.jpg
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,484 Senior Member
    So I asked the Dad about his LE daughters injuries. One thing, she had a Glock .45, they had switched about a yr earlier. She had her choice of 9, 40 or 45. The bad guys all had 9mm, sounds like FMJ since most if not all her wounds went completely through. He said she looked like he!! , especially her ankle, thigh and shoulder but was lucky in that nothing but muscle was hit, no major veins or tendons or organs. She had on a vest but the only hit it took was the exit wound from her shoulder.

    She is still a cop but manages the driving training course now.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,559 Senior Member
    Good for her. Strong lady.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
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