It's not useless if I learn something in the process and I already have.
I have learned a few things too. That was basically my point. This is knowledge for the sake of knowledge-- not because we need this to kill a hog or something. There is no purpose but to learn something. I see that reason as more noble than necessity.
Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
I have learned a few things too. That was basically my point. This is knowledge for the sake of knowledge-- not because we need this to kill a hog or something. There is no purpose but to learn something. I see that reason as more noble than necessity.
True.
I don't even own a gun to shoot these once the testing is done. But.........it's still fun.
"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
Since this for science-- I really do want to know the velocity difference of a load with rifle primers VS. pistol primers. I am assuming you will use CCI for both.
Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
Since this for science-- I really do want to know the velocity difference of a load with rifle primers VS. pistol primers. I am assuming you will use CCI for both.
I don't have small pistol primers. That's why I'm using SR primers. I'll pick up 100 CCI-SP primers if I find some, though. Just to compare.
"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
140gr FTX bullets more often used in the .357 Mag have a .160 BC.
158gr XTP bullets have a .206 BC.
180gr XTP bullets have a .230 BC.
I'd say we are doing pretty good with the .300 BC comparatively.
Just like FPE is not a reliable measure of performance, BC is relatively unimportant since you are most likely to use this under 100 yards.
With a BC of .3 and a velocity of 1200 fps you would get about 640 fpe and a rise of 3.1 inches at 50 yards with a 100 yard zero.
With a BC of .1 and a velocity of 1200 fps you would get about 655 fpe and a rise of 3.7 inches at 50 yards with a 100 yard zero.
D
"A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
It's more about mass and velocity retention in this case. Nothing to do with energy. At least, that's what I'm interested in. That being velocity retention at 100-150 yards.
"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
Recoil seems noticeably greater with the 200 grain bullet. And I'd expect that; physics is physics. That group with the 200 grain bullets is interesting; I'll bet that the combination is capable of tighter groups when you hit the 'sweet spot' for that cartridge/pistol combination.
“I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer” ― Douglas Adams
I don't want to enter this bullet weight issue. I would mention that rifle primers are for higher volumes of powder. In the case of small volume rifle rounds such as the .22 Hornet the small pistol primer is much more efficient.
The rifle primer will push the bullet forward before the pressure of the small powder charge can develop. This does nothing for the efficiency of the reload.
Yes. As soon as I made the dummy round, I stuffed one in the cylinder of a revolver and watched it poke erroneously out the front like a pubescent lad at a homecoming dance.
"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
Alright, my friend has a set of dies and a possible way to seat the ripped bullets. Just may take me a few days to get with him and acquire the dies. Hope to have this project back up and running by next week.
"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
and chronograph... please! I say this is about equal to a hot 10mm round.
IMHO
D
"A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
and chronograph... please! I say this is about equal to a hot 10mm round.
IMHO
D
I'll get the velocity once I settle on a final load. Then, I'll compare velocities between Small Rifle, Small Pistol, and Small Pistol Magnum Primers. Just to see if there is any difference.
"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
Your efforts look promising so far. It seemed to me that the chamber of that barrel would allow longer seating of most bullets
than to the cannelure. I vaguely recall loading some 180 grain rifle bullets with great results. That was the heaviest that was
attempted by me with that barrel.
I have seriously considered re-chambering that barrel to 357 Max. for at least 20 years. When Illinois first allowed handgun
deer hunting, a major restriction was that it had to be a straight walled case. That ruled out the 30-30, 7-30 Waters, 7 TCU and
30 Herrett barrels that I had for the Contender at that time. I could have used the 357 mag. barrel as is, but would like to have
had more punch & range, hence the Maximum project.
That train of thought was de-railed when I got a 44 Magnum 10" barrel and then a 12" Hunter barrel in 375 Winchester. Those
are the two Contender chambering that I deer hunt with here in Illinois when I use a scoped pistol. But the urge still exists to
have a 357 Max. made out of the barrel that I sent you. Some interesting details on the chambering are included for you below.
“A gun is a tool, no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.”
Yes, the chamber is long enough to have seated the bullets further out. But:
1. The data Knitepoet gave me was for this specific seating depth.
2. The Lee dies were giving me fits as the bullets were already too long and seating depth too shallow for the dies.
Hopefully, the tool my friend is loading me will allow for easier seating and more flexibility.
"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
For fun, the Hornady book lists a 200 gr FTX load specifically for the .357 Maximum for the TC Contender.
Max loads of 20.6 gr of Lil Gun or 25.2 gr of RL-7 will push it to 1600 fps when shot from a 10 inch barrel, where with the .357 you will be lucky to get 1000 fps.
D
"A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
The Hornady 8th edition reloading manual lists a 180 gr hp-xtp model 35771 at 1150 fps using 12.6 gr of 2400 shot from an 8 inch Colt Python using Winchester WSPM primers as their fastest heavy bullet load. If you hit 1200 - 1300 fps that would be impressive. The .357 Maximum case is .31 inches longer.
D
"A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
Quickload estimates 1,294 fps with 13.5gr of H110 and this bullet out of the 10" barrel I'm using. Now, I've not seen Quickload to be the most accurate at velocity measuring when using default data. But, I hope it's close or under estimating this time.
I'd like to break 1,200 fps if the load is safe. Why? Because.
"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
Quickload estimates 1,294 fps with 13.5gr of H110 and this bullet out of the 10" barrel I'm using. Now, I've not seen Quickload to be the most accurate at velocity measuring when using default data. But, I hope it's close or under estimating this time.
I'd like to break 1,200 fps if the load is safe. Why? Because.
Don't forget to wear your lab coat....
D
"A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
Correction, my friend. I love Contenders!!! I was very displeased with the Encore. I LOATH Thompson Center and their customer service/quality control since S&W bought them.
They can choke on sand for all I care in their current state.
"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
Replies
These 200gr FTX bullets have a .300 BC.
140gr FTX bullets more often used in the .357 Mag have a .160 BC.
158gr XTP bullets have a .206 BC.
180gr XTP bullets have a .230 BC.
I'd say we are doing pretty good with the .300 BC comparatively.
I'm already saving milk jugs!
True.
I don't even own a gun to shoot these once the testing is done. But.........it's still fun.
I don't have small pistol primers. That's why I'm using SR primers. I'll pick up 100 CCI-SP primers if I find some, though. Just to compare.
Just like FPE is not a reliable measure of performance, BC is relatively unimportant since you are most likely to use this under 100 yards.
With a BC of .3 and a velocity of 1200 fps you would get about 640 fpe and a rise of 3.1 inches at 50 yards with a 100 yard zero.
With a BC of .1 and a velocity of 1200 fps you would get about 655 fpe and a rise of 3.7 inches at 50 yards with a 100 yard zero.
D
Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
― Douglas Adams
The rifle primer will push the bullet forward before the pressure of the small powder charge can develop. This does nothing for the efficiency of the reload.
X2
What do you WANT me to do? Handload for the .223 Remington and .308 Winchester?
Shut up, you! This is SCIENCE!!!
IMHO
D
Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
I'll get the velocity once I settle on a final load. Then, I'll compare velocities between Small Rifle, Small Pistol, and Small Pistol Magnum Primers. Just to see if there is any difference.
than to the cannelure. I vaguely recall loading some 180 grain rifle bullets with great results. That was the heaviest that was
attempted by me with that barrel.
I have seriously considered re-chambering that barrel to 357 Max. for at least 20 years. When Illinois first allowed handgun
deer hunting, a major restriction was that it had to be a straight walled case. That ruled out the 30-30, 7-30 Waters, 7 TCU and
30 Herrett barrels that I had for the Contender at that time. I could have used the 357 mag. barrel as is, but would like to have
had more punch & range, hence the Maximum project.
That train of thought was de-railed when I got a 44 Magnum 10" barrel and then a 12" Hunter barrel in 375 Winchester. Those
are the two Contender chambering that I deer hunt with here in Illinois when I use a scoped pistol. But the urge still exists to
have a 357 Max. made out of the barrel that I sent you. Some interesting details on the chambering are included for you below.
http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=121
I'm tempted to get one of these, let my local smith chamber it, then sell it on E-bay (the reamer, not the barrel).
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/734226/ptg-solid-pilot-chamber-finish-reamer-357-maximum
edited to add that I'm not affiliated with the first link in any way, nor the second.
NRA Endowment Member
― Douglas Adams
Yes, the chamber is long enough to have seated the bullets further out. But:
1. The data Knitepoet gave me was for this specific seating depth.
2. The Lee dies were giving me fits as the bullets were already too long and seating depth too shallow for the dies.
Hopefully, the tool my friend is loading me will allow for easier seating and more flexibility.
Max loads of 20.6 gr of Lil Gun or 25.2 gr of RL-7 will push it to 1600 fps when shot from a 10 inch barrel, where with the .357 you will be lucky to get 1000 fps.
D
Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
D
Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
I'd like to break 1,200 fps if the load is safe. Why? Because.
Don't forget to wear your lab coat....
D
Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
FIFY
Dad 5-31-13
Correction, my friend. I love Contenders!!! I was very displeased with the Encore. I LOATH Thompson Center and their customer service/quality control since S&W bought them.
They can choke on sand for all I care in their current state.