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Range Report - 200gr FTX in a .357 Mag TC Contender

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  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,581 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Hodgdon is listing 35 Remington loads with the 200gr FTX starting at 1839fps and the fastest load at 2116 (and that is using Leverevolution powder). An 1800-2600 velocity threshold bullet is a bad match for that cartridge.

    Considering most people likely consider the .35 Remington a 150 yards cartridge...........or something like that.

    [h=2]Ballistics Results - .35 Remington 200gr FTX[/h]

    Range (yards)
    Velocity (fps)
    Energy (ft.-lb.)
    Trajectory (in)
    Come UP in MOA
    Come UP in Mils
    Wind Drift (in)
    Wind Drift in MOA
    Wind Drift in Mils




























    Muzzle
    2116
    1988
    -1.5
    0
    0
    0
    0
    0


    25
    2050
    1867
    0
    0
    0
    0
    0
    0


    50
    1986
    1752
    1
    -1.8
    -0.5
    0
    0
    0


    75
    1924
    1643
    1.4
    -1.7
    -0.5
    0
    0
    0


    100
    1862
    1540
    1.2
    -1.1
    -0.3
    0
    0
    0


    125
    1802
    1442
    0.4
    -0.3
    -0.1
    0
    0
    0


    150
    1743
    1349
    -1.1
    0.7
    0.2
    0
    0
    0




    It looks like it would work. At least on paper.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    To hell with that. I will be using vintage Winchester Silvertip 200gr roundnose factory ammo if my water test turns out satisfactory, that, or I will try those 200gr Hornady roundnose going about 2000fps.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    I've got a box of 250 grain .358 RN softpoints if anybody wants a few for comparison purposes.
    Jerry
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    I've got a box of 250 grain .358 RN softpoints if anybody wants a few for comparison purposes.
    Jerry
    I got an old Remington model 8 (my grandpa's) that I intend to shoot a black bear with this fall. If you could set aside a few for me when I come down in May, I would appreciate it.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Can do! If you're shooting a Marlin 336 .35 Remington, the bullets have to be seated past the cannelure so they can cycle from the magazine. I chronographed them at around 1800 FPS with the load I was using, but they penetrated 18" of hog and I didn't recover the bullet.
    Jerry
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,581 Senior Member
    Here is the first round through the jugs. This is the one I didn't find that went through 4 jugs and nicked the 5th.

    th_GOPR0016_zpsf6d4e2f3.jpg

    What I find interesting is that jug #2 took the most hydrostatic shock and was pretty much ripped in half. Jug #3 took only slightly less hydrostatic damage. While jug #1 & #4 simply took holes through them for the most part and remained standing.

    So, consider that at about 5" of penetration, the hydrostatic shock is kicking in and at it's peak within the second jug. Dissipating slightly in the third jug. So, between those two is your max damage.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 8,533 Senior Member
    Very cool!
    You are sure having fun with this:cool2:
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    If you want, I'll load you up 5 rounds with the 14.0gr charge and send them to you to test in your rifle. That is, if you feel safe and comfortable shooting them in your gun. It would be interesting to see the increase in velocity. Maybe you can get them to expansion speed?

    Your call.

    The bullets I ordered should be here eventually. Seeing your results and the first water jug test I might just load up a few of the Hornady 200 grain round nose soft points and see how they compare in the meantime. Don't have water jugs, but I do have a bunch of plastic coffee cans. And a chronograph.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,581 Senior Member
    Very cool!
    You are sure having fun with this:cool2:

    Oh yes!
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,581 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    The bullets I ordered should be here eventually. Seeing your results and the first water jug test I might just load up a few of the Hornady 200 grain round nose soft points and see how they compare in the meantime. Don't have water jugs, but I do have a bunch of plastic coffee cans. And a chronograph.

    Sounds like a plan. Keep me posted!!!
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,581 Senior Member
    Here is the second shot. The one I recovered the bullet from. It is still quite dramatic for a .357 Mag at 50 yards. Watch the 2nd and 3rd jugs explode. Then, you can see the hole through the plywood at the end. If you watch ever so carefully (darn photobucket reduced quality) you can see the bullet impact the berm at 100 yards.

    th_GOPR0017_zpsfa771d39.jpg
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • jbohiojbohio Senior Member Posts: 5,615 Senior Member
    Good deal!! I love it. Really impressed with the velocity.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,581 Senior Member
    jbohio wrote: »
    Good deal!! I love it. Really impressed with the velocity.

    Just for comparison, my hunting load out of my 7.5" Bisley Hunter .44 Remington Mag and 240gr XTP bullets clocks 1,414 fps.

    That's only 25 fps faster than the .357 Mag load with 40 more grains of bullets, 10.5 more grains of powder, and 2.5" less barrel length from the Bisley. Kinda cool.

    Well, I guess I'm done with this science project. :tissue:

    I will say, though. The bullet not expanding actually saved me some money. If they had expanded..............I'd have been on the hunt for a gun of my own to shoot them in! :bang:
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,581 Senior Member
    BigDanS wrote: »
    ........ with the .357 you will be lucky to get 1000 fps.

    D

    I am happy to have SMOKED this prediction, though.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,581 Senior Member
    Unless y'all can think of something I missed.............I'm going to start returning all the borrowed pieces parts to their respective owners.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,992 Senior Member
    Proof that books and reality are different. Congrats.

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,992 Senior Member
    I might add you exceeded COAL, and maxed load over spec.

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,581 Senior Member
    BigDanS wrote: »
    I might add you exceeded COAL, and maxed load over spec.

    D

    I kept the original COAL of 1.920" (1.387" OGL) that we started this project with and that Knitepoet gave the data for. I only exceeded his recommended Max load of 13.5 grains of H110 by .5 grain when I went to 14.0 grains.

    Everything else remained the same. That .5gr increase in powder over the "spec" recommendation didn't account for the 388 fps over your estimated 1,000 fps velocity for the "spec" max load of 13.5gr of powder.

    But, I'm happy with the resulting velocity! :applause:
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    Some more science facts:
    The chocolate cookie portion of an Oreo averages 8.44 grams.
    The filling for a single stuff averages 3.03 grams.
    The filling of a double stuff averages 6.26 grams or 207% the filling of a single.
    The filling of a mega stuff averages 9.57 grams or 316% of the filling in a single stuff.

    (My daughter's science project)
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • jbohiojbohio Senior Member Posts: 5,615 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    Just for comparison, my hunting load out of my 7.5" Bisley Hunter .44 Remington Mag and 240gr XTP bullets clocks 1,414 fps.

    That's only 25 fps faster than the .357 Mag load with 40 more grains of bullets, 10.5 more grains of powder, and 2.5" less barrel length from the Bisley. Kinda cool.

    Well, I guess I'm done with this science project. :tissue:

    I will say, though. The bullet not expanding actually saved me some money. If they had expanded..............I'd have been on the hunt for a gun of my own to shoot them in! :bang:

    I had the same thought about 44 loads.
    One thing I wondered, would those bullets expand if you pulled the flimsy rubber tips out?
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,581 Senior Member
    jbohio wrote: »
    I had the same thought about 44 loads.
    One thing I wondered, would those bullets expand if you pulled the flimsy rubber tips out?

    I don't know. Don't know that it would make a difference. But, maybe.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    Zee, I got with Knitepoet and got load data for the 200 grain round noses. I'll prep some cases tomorrow (while it's raining) and load up some with H110 and Lil' Gun and see how that works out. Also came up with a new way to test with wet newsprint and the plastic coffee cans I have on hand. I got a feeling the round nose bullets will attempt to expand.

    I'll bet the bullets you used would expand if the bullet jacket thickness was tapered in the ogive area. Thick brass in that area and a pointy tip makes it want to penetrate rather than expand, IMHO. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, though.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,581 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    Zee, I got with Knitepoet and got load data for the 200 grain round noses. I'll prep some cases tomorrow (while it's raining) and load up some with H110 and Lil' Gun and see how that works out. Also came up with a new way to test with wet newsprint and the plastic coffee cans I have on hand. I got a feeling the round nose bullets will attempt to expand.

    I'll bet the bullets you used would expand if the bullet jacket thickness was tapered in the ogive area. Thick brass in that area and a pointy tip makes it want to penetrate rather than expand, IMHO. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, though.

    Very cool! I await your results.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    Here's my 200 grain Hornady RNSP seated to 1.7 c.o.a.l. Fits the rifle chamber with no problems. Got 60 cases prepped and primed. I'll start loading up powder charges 'n' bullets after dinner.

    Image10_zps06170b56.jpg
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,581 Senior Member
    Ouch!! Why so deep in the case?
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,992 Senior Member
    MAX C.O.A.L. listed in the Hornady manual is 1.59...
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Max means nothing, as long as it chambers.
    Dan-- And just to clarify, in general, seating the bullet longer than max will lower the pressure of the round.* Going shorter than max length will increase your pressure. They give us that max COAL as a guideline so that they will chamber in every gun that shoots that round. Since we are reloading, we can essentially ignore that length and go longer to tailor the load to our specific guns if we want to, and be assured that we will not increase the pressure. I would not advise going shorter than COAL unless you slowly and deliberately worked your way up. You may go over pressure before reaching a max load.

    *= IF the bullet isn't touching the lands.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    Ouch!! Why so deep in the case?

    That's from the load workup I got from Knitepoet. If I use his load data, I could seat out further and reduce pressure. I can go to a max c.o.a.l. of 1.840 and be 0.020 off the lands. I ain't a stuffin bullets into the lands; bad things could happen. Don't want to flirt with the possibility of scuffin' up my ruggedly handsome looks! :roll2:
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    BigDanS wrote: »
    MAX C.O.A.L. listed in the Hornady manual is 1.59...

    Depends on the bullet. The load for a cast round nose bullet of 204 grains for Contender and other single shot rifles and pistols is 1.880 in my Lyman 47th Edition. The length given in reloading manuals also assumes that the loaded cartridges may also be used in lever action and pump action rifles. Their cartridge lifters may not accommodate cartridges with a longer than normal c.o.a.l. that are quite acceptable for the single shots.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    Got cartridges loaded for H110 from 14.8 to 15.3 in .1 grain increments
    Got cartridges loaded for Lil' Gun from 14.8 to 15.2 in .1 grain increments
    Cartridge o.a.l. is 1.845 +- 0.003 due to bullet lead nose deformation.
    Now if the weather will just cooperate.

    The winner for each powder/charge will be the one with the smallest three shot group.
    That load will be reloaded for each and get the honor of doing the wet newsprint test for expansion (if any) test.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
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