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I have another itch. (AR Pistol)

2

Replies

  • BPsniperBPsniper Posts: 1,961 Senior Member
    LMLarsen wrote: »
    You know that RRA also makes a piston AR pistol without the tube, just in case you want to go all John Clark/mall ninja...

    http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=441

    xlg_LP2110.jpg

    For my purpose, I want the tube.
  • BPsniperBPsniper Posts: 1,961 Senior Member
    mythaeus wrote: »
    National Firearms Act (NFA), 27 C.F.R. § 479.11, “pistol” is defined as:


    An AR pistol is exactly designed for that. Even if you decided to shoulder the buffer tube, it wasn't designed to be shouldered unless you intentionally add modifications to shoulder it (e.g add some padding at the end of the tube to make it more comfortable for shouldering).

    I've since added an enhanced trigger guard on this lower, which I'm sure you will do. Needless to say, no plastic BUIS on that railed gas block of yours.

    Al

    Thanks. Sounds like this might work. And yes, I would be adding the enhanced trigger guard.
  • LMLarsenLMLarsen Posts: 8,337 Senior Member
    BPsniper wrote: »
    For my purpose, I want the tube.

    And now you've gone and given someone a new sig line...
    “A gun is a tool, no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.”

    NRA Endowment Member
  • BPsniperBPsniper Posts: 1,961 Senior Member
    Bigslug wrote: »
    A pistol AR has NOTHING for functionality - it doesn't conceal or conveniently carry like a pistol, it doesn't have the maneuverability of a true SBR, and it doesn't have the usable accuracy of either. All it does is serve as a poor reminder of what we've been regulated out of.

    I think you are getting too hung up on the vernacular to see the actual potential of the weapon.

    It's lighter than an SBR. More compact. More potent than a handgun chambered pistol of general design.

    I like to take a long gun when I travel out of town with the family. This obviously takes up lots of room. Room that is not generally available when traveling with a family of 4 (including 2 young kids who want to bring everything). So, a long rifle case is a pain. This gun can be carried in a briefcase sized soft case and serve the purpose of a long gun.

    It is actually very adaptable when you let your brain wander. Not get wrapped up in the 'they regulated me out of having fun so I refuse to own one just to show THEM' mentality.

    It can be shot from arms length (though not as accurately) and it can be brought in close. It can sit right next to my bed and be much easier to bring to arms than a long gun. With a good brake, it should be very controllable to shoot as well.

    Not a perfect design in a perfect world. But adaptable to functionality if you get creative.
  • BPsniperBPsniper Posts: 1,961 Senior Member
    LMLarsen wrote: »
    And now you've gone and given someone a new sig line...

    Dirty old man.
  • LMLarsenLMLarsen Posts: 8,337 Senior Member
    From hanging around here for eight years. Previously I was a saint.
    “A gun is a tool, no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.”

    NRA Endowment Member
  • DanChamberlainDanChamberlain Posts: 3,395 Senior Member
    They make a .45acp upper, it seems like the pistol version would be easy.

    http://jsgunparts.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4&products_id=12
    It's a source of great pride for me, that when my name is googled, one finds book titles and not mug shots. Daniel C. Chamberlain
  • mkk41mkk41 Posts: 1,932 Senior Member
    You got more itches than a pack of flea infested dogs!

    But even I gotta scratch my head on this one. By many accounts , the .223/5.56 loses some effectiveness in CQB when going from the 20in barrel of the M-16A2 rifle , to the 14in barrel of the M-4 carbine.
    So how much loss does a 7in barrel effect?
    How much muzzle flash would that thing have?
  • mkk41mkk41 Posts: 1,932 Senior Member
    BPsniper wrote: »
    This is an honest question, because I don't know. So, somebody set me straight.

    An AR pistol is a pistol in design and clasification. But, does that mean it is illegal to place the buffer spring tube against your shoulder and fire it? Without rifle stock, mind you. Just the tube.

    Hmmm , after looking at that tube , I'm thinking it would be rather easy to make a little slip-on buttpad for that thing.
  • mkk41mkk41 Posts: 1,932 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    And right there it becomes illegal... Weird isn't it...

    Did I say 'butt-pad'? I meant it's a gunsafe , stand up , , , thingy!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    BPsniper wrote: »
    That I just might need to scratch.

    I have been trying to find a 1911 in 9mm that I like for about a year now. My luck has not been good. I'm too picky and anything I get would have to be seriously modified to truely make me happy. That's a lot of time, work, and cash. I feel like I'm trying to force something and in the end, would come up with something that's not quite what I wanted. So..............

    I've been looking around for something that caught my eye and would be very useful and simple to get into. I found it!!!!!

    Rock River Arms .223 Caliber RRA LAR-15 10 1/2 Inch A4
    RRA-AR2125X_lg.jpg

    The way I see it, I can get into this gun for relatively cheap. I have accessories out the butt for this platform and ammo to boot. Put that all together and this seems like a pretty simple decision. I end up with a compact weapon for HD, travel, and general fun at the range. I mean, what's not perfect about this?

    If I do this, I already have the parts to change it the way I want it.

    - Holland Brake
    - Surefire Quad Rail or VLTOR-CASV forend. (whichever I decide is best for it)
    - Ergo Grip
    - Mags
    - Enhanced Mag Release
    - VTac Sling and sling attachments
    - Flip up iron sights
    - AimPoint Micro


    I mean, everything I need! I think this would end up being a trick little gun for it's intended purpose.

    Thoughts?


    And the Cactus Shooter thunks Savages are ugly, man they are aesthetically pleasing compared to this stubby contraption:jester:
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • DanChamberlainDanChamberlain Posts: 3,395 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    And right there it becomes illegal... Weird isn't it...

    I'm not sure it does. If it "slips on" and has no way to "affix" it to the tube, it may be legal. Just as the old wire style butts that were held against the grip of a pistol were not attached. They were legal. By definition, I believe the butt has to be "attached" to the firearm, rather than just held against it.

    Dn
    It's a source of great pride for me, that when my name is googled, one finds book titles and not mug shots. Daniel C. Chamberlain
  • JayJay Posts: 4,629 Senior Member
    Glue a rubber door bumper to your shoulder...............

    THB-618.jpg
  • BPsniperBPsniper Posts: 1,961 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    IIRC the 7" 9mm set me back just north of a $1,000.

    Gotta love GOV discount. ;-)
  • BPsniperBPsniper Posts: 1,961 Senior Member
    They make a .45acp upper, it seems like the pistol version would be easy.

    http://jsgunparts.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4&products_id=12

    .45 would be kinda cool. You need to get one.
  • BPsniperBPsniper Posts: 1,961 Senior Member
    mkk41 wrote: »
    You got more itches than a pack of flea infested dogs!

    But even I gotta scratch my head on this one. By many accounts , the .223/5.56 loses some effectiveness in CQB when going from the 20in barrel of the M-16A2 rifle , to the 14in barrel of the M-4 carbine.
    So how much loss does a 7in barrel effect?
    How much muzzle flash would that thing have?

    Yeah, I like scratching. But I think I'm almost done.

    We did a bunch of testing with SBRs. The 10.5 is about as short as you can effectively go and still have good performance on both ends. That's why the pistol I'm looking at has a 10.5" barrel and NOT the 7".

    You guys need to remember, I've been running a 10.5" HK 416 for several years now. Only difference with this one is that it won't have a stock and will be MUCH lighter.

    Also, I've been running a HK53 for Dig Pro for years now. It has an 8" barrel and fits in a nap sack. That's a cool gun as well.
  • BPsniperBPsniper Posts: 1,961 Senior Member
    mkk41 wrote: »
    How much muzzle flash would that thing have?

    This is an 8" barreled 6.8 SPC I tested a few years ago.

    CopyofBFlames2.jpg

    4Spread.jpg

    Marshmallow, anyone?
  • Wheelsman56Wheelsman56 Posts: 225 Member
    Id go for one of these if I was looking for a AR pistol.

    RRApistol.gif
  • rallykidrallykid Posts: 657 Senior Member
    If you are going the pistol route go with a gas piston upper to lose the goofy buffer tube. I have been thinking AK pistol but I want something a little higher quality than the Draco. Or maybe I could just refinish it.

    Edit: Just saw you wanted the tube so almost any AR pistol would be fine. Personally I would pay the $200, add the stock and SBR it.
    No, I do not have a pink fuzzy bunny fetish but apparently my Facebook hacking wife does.
  • BPsniperBPsniper Posts: 1,961 Senior Member
    rallykid wrote: »
    Personally I would pay the $200, add the stock and SBR it.

    Nothing says I can't do that down the road. I just might.
  • BigslugBigslug Posts: 9,868 Senior Member
    BPsniper wrote: »
    I think you are getting too hung up on the vernacular to see the actual potential of the weapon.

    It's lighter than an SBR. More compact.

    You mean that extra four or five ounces and half inch that an M4 stock gives you? Yeah. . .that's a real killer.
    BPsniper wrote: »
    More potent than a handgun chambered pistol of general design.

    You mean more potent than the handgun that's delivered five effective hits in the time it takes you to line up one with this thing? Or did you mean more potent than the pistol that was available on your hip to end the encounter while the mutant AR remained cased in the trunk of the car?

    This is me you're talking to. Buy the thing if you must, but give up on trying to apply logic of it. For a negligible weight and size penalty, you can just as easily transport one of the rifles that you already have - and be in possession of a legitimate 500 yard battle implement. If you don't want to do SBR paperwork, build a 16" gun with a 0.625" diameter pencil barrel, and pick the rest of the parts for lack of weight.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • BPsniperBPsniper Posts: 1,961 Senior Member
    Bigslug wrote: »
    You mean more potent than the handgun that's delivered five effective hits in the time it takes you to line up one with this thing?

    I think you are failing to see exactly how it is that I am going to run this thing.

    Or did you mean more potent than the pistol that was available on your hip to end the encounter while the mutant AR remained cased in the trunk of the car?

    Again, forrest for the trees, my friend. If I need the pistol on my hip, it's there. If I need this thing, it's there as well. I carry two guns at work for the sake of options and I use them accordingly. Same reason I have a pistol, carbine, and shotgun by my bed. Options. I know what I go for first and the others are there.....just in case.

    This is me you're talking to. Buy the thing if you must, but give up on trying to apply logic of it. For a negligible weight and size penalty, you can just as easily transport one of the rifles that you already have - and be in possession of a legitimate 500 yard battle implement. If you don't want to do SBR paperwork, build a 16" gun with a 0.625" diameter pencil barrel, and pick the rest of the parts for lack of weight.

    I am not trying to justify this thing. I am simply stating the uses it could apply for. If I KNEW I was getting in a life or death fight, I'd obviously choose a bolt gun and cap the dude from 1,000 yards away if I could. That's not likely to happen. So you have options. Layers.......like an onion.

    I know it is kind of a gadget. But it can be a useful gadget as well. Hell, I'd love to carry around my HK 416 everywhere I go. The mall, the gas station, Dairy Queen. Why do you think a long gun is my primary weapon at work? They are better than a pistol under most circumstances. But we all know, that can't happen and I'd get self-conscience about all the stares and screams for the locals.

    So, this is simply another tool in the tool box. Where it fits, it will be used. (If I get it.)
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    full-oa-93.jpg

    Hee Hee
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Posts: 12,429 Senior Member
    You now need to get this just to make Bigslug's head asplode!

    :)
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • mkk41mkk41 Posts: 1,932 Senior Member
    BPsniper wrote: »

    So, this is simply another tool in the tool box. (If I get it.)

    Ya mean toy in the toybox!
  • BigslugBigslug Posts: 9,868 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    You now need to get this just to make Bigslug's head asplode!

    :)

    My head won't explode. This is not a gun buying issue; it is a mental health issue. This has got me worried that BP is hitting his post-surgery meds a little too hard. Being a friend sometimes means taking your buddy's car keys. :p
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • BPsniperBPsniper Posts: 1,961 Senior Member
    Bigslug wrote: »
    My head won't explode. This is not a gun buying issue; it is a mental health issue. This has got me worried that BP is hitting his post-surgery meds a little too hard. Being a friend sometimes means taking your buddy's car keys. :p
    Are you my DD? :-)
  • BPsniperBPsniper Posts: 1,961 Senior Member
    mkk41 wrote: »
    Ya mean toy in the toybox!
    Yeah. That too.
  • BPsniperBPsniper Posts: 1,961 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    You are discussing this with a man who's answer to EVERYTHING is .45acp, 1911, Glock and 30-06. His toolbox probably has a hammer, a crescent wrench and two screwdrivers in it... :tooth:

    True. It's like discussing the latest summer swimsuits with a nudist.
  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Posts: 4,324 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    You are discussing this with a man who's answer to EVERYTHING is .45acp, 1911, Glock and 30-06. His toolbox probably has a hammer, a crescent wrench and two screwdrivers in it... :tooth:

    You forgot the pump shotgun ... 1911, Glock 19, change it to a .308 Model 700 and a 870 and that is a dang good toolbox.

    Now the toybox is different ... anything you can buy legally is fair game.
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
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