Personal Defense strategy

DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior MemberPosts: 9,496 Senior Member
Personal Defense strategy 101 / subsection a1 - the get offa Me gun

Many years ago a friend of mine related an account, he was a uniformed officer for NYCPD, and he was following a perp, a guy he had collared a few times before, this guy had a current AW, he followed the perp into a tenement, somehow, the guy got behind him and took his service revolver, as the perp is debating whether or not to shoot him with his own service revolver, Pat manages to draw his High Standard .22 magnum / wallet holster combo from his pocket and neatly dispatch the creep with two shots to the head.

I always liked to carry a full size service sidearm and a "get offa Me" piece, something concealed in a pocket, the theory being, you can draw a pocket piece and not look like you are drawing a gun.

I also theorize that there is no way to draw a piece from the usual locations in many circumstances, as when a perp demands your wallet, act as if you are going to comply, draw your pocket piece and shoot the perp.

The pocket piece then buys you the time you need to draw your main sidearm, the get offa Me gun can be any of the many tiny concealable handguns now available and practice until you are really proficient with it, it should be very reliable and do not skimp on price, get the very best little pocket blaster you can afford.

There is a place for little pocket blasters or mouse guns, even a .380 acp, as a get offa Me gun.
"There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
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Replies

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,778 Senior Member
    For true "get off me" situations.............I prefer to use a knife.

    If you are on me like white on rice.............I will go Ginsu on you.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    For true "get off me" situations.............I prefer to use a knife.

    If you are on me like white on rice.............I will go Ginsu on you.

    Very good !!! I just had rice & soy sauce and some bean curd + weak tea.....
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Collapse, cry, grovel, beg for mercy, then draw from the fetal position and blow the scumbag away!
    :guns:
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,195 Senior Member
    Copious amounts of urine, feces, and high-pitched screaming should be an adequate diversionary tactic...
    Overkill is underrated.
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,503 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    For true "get off me" situations.............I prefer to use a knife.

    If you are on me like white on rice.............I will go Ginsu on you.


    Also, no reloads necessary. :devil:
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • KENFU1911KENFU1911 Senior Member Posts: 1,052 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    For true "get off me" situations.............I prefer to use a knife.

    If you are on me like white on rice.............I will go Ginsu on you.

    Always loaded,,,,never jams....good choice.....Ken
    My idea of a warning shot is when the 2nd bad guy watches his 1st buddy go down....
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Sarah Brady and the VPC people would approve I'm sure, in My case however, firearms are the main part of My personal defense strategy, I am a bit too old for edged weapons and the additional manual dexterity they require.


    I almost wanted to check to see if I was posting in the wrong forum or something.........
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,778 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    Sarah Brady and the VPC people would approve I'm sure, in My case however, firearms are the main part of My personal defense strategy, I am a bit too old for edged weapons and the additional manual dexterity they require.

    Mine as well. But, for me, edged weapons are a second layer of defense. I always have 2-3 knives on me as well as a gun. They are lighter and easier to carry than a second gun and...........within arms reach..........amazingly effective..........when used correctly.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Fat BillyFat Billy Senior Member Posts: 1,813 Senior Member
    My Gerber will make you gurgle if it needs to. :up: Later,
    Fat Billy

    Recoil is how you know primer ignition is complete.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Fat Billy wrote: »
    My Gerber will make you gurgle if it needs to. :up: Later,

    Assuming I was a criminal and was going for you or anyone else, I would not get close enough for that Gerber or any other knife or close quarter weapon to matter or make a difference.

    And like the man said, I am sure am not bringing a knife to a gunfight.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,987 Senior Member
    I had rice for breakfast, so I'm good.
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    How nice, for you.

    I had tea and crumples......
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • EliEli Senior Member Posts: 3,074 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    I am sure am not bringing a knife to a gunfight.


    While true, the exact reciprocal of that statement is also quite valid.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,778 Senior Member
    Eli wrote: »
    While true, the exact reciprocal of that statement is also quite valid.

    THIS!!!!!

    Once you are within arms reach, it's too late to be quick. If I have knife in hand, you have to control my weapon or create distance before you can bring your gun to bare. If you go for your gun before accomplishing one of the above two things, I will slot you before you clear leather.

    Distance or control. Don't bring a gun to a knife fight. You will lose.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,778 Senior Member
    I'm sure we've all heard of the "21 Foot Rule". No?
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,664 Senior Member
    Some folks are just that fast.

    Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,140 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    Assuming I was a criminal and was going for you or anyone else, I would not get close enough for that Gerber or any other knife or close quarter weapon to matter or make a difference.

    And like the man said, I am sure am not bringing a knife to a gunfight.

    You should.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • bobbyrlf3bobbyrlf3 Senior Member Posts: 2,467 Senior Member
    Assume for a moment that the knife is not yet drawn, within a distance of 21 feet; how does the speed of deployment of a knife compare to that of a properly holstered sidearm? Would drawing a sidearm be comparable? Anyone with any experience/knowledge they can share would be appreciated.
    Knowledge is essential to living freely and fully; understanding gives knowledge purpose and strength; wisdom is combining the two and applying them appropriately in words and actions.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    I know that the level of skill needed to deploy a knife to any real degree is not in My capacity, do I carry a knife ? yes, could I use it ? yes, if I need to will I use it ? yes, however, I am realistic in assessing Myself and what I can do, a dude here once said, bones break easy, true, however, I have trouble breaking stale breadsticks, so I will stick to using guns for defensive work.

    My question is this, of the people advocating the use of a knife as a defensive arm, how many have actually ever had to do so ? I do not expect an answer to this question, but defending yourself with a knife is much different than with a gun, at least it is to Me, the guy you cut is not going to instantly curl up, he will be fighting for his life, sever both carotid arteries and that guy is going to live long enough to potentially harm you big time......
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,778 Senior Member
    bobbyrlf3 wrote: »
    Assume for a moment that the knife is not yet drawn, within a distance of 21 feet; how does the speed of deployment of a knife compare to that of a properly holstered sidearm? Would drawing a sidearm be comparable? Anyone with any experience/knowledge they can share would be appreciated.

    I've modified my carry knives to where they deploy as fast or faster than a holstered gun. They are stupid fast!
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,778 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    I know that the level of skill needed to deploy a knife to any real degree is not in My capacity, do I carry a knife ? yes, could I use it ? yes, if I need to will I use it ? yes, however, I am realistic in assessing Myself and what I can do, a dude here once said, bones break easy, true, however, I have trouble breaking stale breadsticks, so I will stick to using guns for defensive work.

    My question is this, of the people advocating the use of a knife as a defensive arm, how many have actually ever had to do so ? I do not expect an answer to this question, but defending yourself with a knife is much different than with a gun, at least it is to Me, the guy you cut is not going to instantly curl up, he will be fighting for his life, sever both carotid arteries and that guy is going to live long enough to potentially harm you big time......

    Arteries are not the primary targets. It takes 1-3 minutes to lose consciousness through arterial bleeding. That's too long. The muscular system is addressed an more specifically, tendons/ligaments/joints. I can disable your right arm with one ring cut around the elbow or shoulder. Of course, a sufficient cut will take the brachial artery at the same time. Rendering the arm useless and starting the clock to bleed out.

    A single cut to the front of the knee above the kneecap or to the two tendons at the back of the knee will address the support structure. Conversely, a cut low below the femoral to either side of the groin and driving up towards the hip will take the tendon holding the inner thigh to the pelvic, sever the femoral, open the ball socket to the hip and drop the threat. Again, starting the bleed out clock.

    In less than 3 seconds and 4 cuts, one will be on the floor with a useless arm, leg, intestines hanging out and throat cut.

    It works. Just gotta have an understanding of human anatomy.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,778 Senior Member
    Disabling and stopping the threat is the goal. Death is just a subsequent byproduct.

    Sharp edges are very efficient when used correctly.

    You shoot until the threat goes away. It's the same with a knife. I will cut you until you don't want to play anymore. Or can't.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,140 Senior Member
    bobbyrlf3 wrote: »
    Assume for a moment that the knife is not yet drawn, within a distance of 21 feet; how does the speed of deployment of a knife compare to that of a properly holstered sidearm? Would drawing a sidearm be comparable? Anyone with any experience/knowledge they can share would be appreciated.

    Not comparable at all. Even if I couldn't get the knife OUT by the time I got to you, I'd still be on you quicker than your draw (esp. CCW draws) and I could physically manipulate you as I am getting the knife out.

    If you can't draw your CCW from normal concealment and put at least 5 (preferably 8 or so) rounds on a target closing at running speed within 2 seconds. You're done.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,212 Senior Member
    What Zee said....I will add...you do NOT need to be in peak physical condition to use a knife in an in-close confrontation...we're not talking a prolonged knife fight...as stated in the opening thread, we're talking about getting an assailant off you and creating space...a blade (properly employed) can do that more effectively than fumbling with(or for) a firearm...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,778 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    What Zee said....I will add...you do NOT need to be in peak physical condition to use a knife in an in-close confrontation...we're not talking a prolonged knife fight...as stated in the opening thread, we're talking about getting an assailant off you and creating space...a blade (properly employed) can do that more effectively than fumbling with(or for) a firearm...

    Exactly!!!! Knives are wickedly efficient. I can put you on the ground with one cut and unconscious in about a minute.

    It's not strength. It's knowledge.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,778 Senior Member
    I like using knives about as much as I like shooting. Can ya tell?

    Haha! I get giddy with knives. That's one reason I enjoy doing post mortems on animals so much. I love cutting things.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 4,692 Senior Member
    My personal defense strategy is to get really crazy Irish mad, loose all presence of mind, and hope things work out for the best.

    So far....it's worked.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    My personal defense strategy is to stand behind Zee. I hope you don't mind.
    Seriously carry a backup gun and a knife or three.
    It's because I hate Trump.
  • Fat BillyFat Billy Senior Member Posts: 1,813 Senior Member
    If I'm confronted by a gun wielding bad guy I'm not going to "pull" my knife and take my knife to a gun fight. I'm going to be submissive enough to bring the gun man closer and aid in his gain in confidence to bring him closer. As soon as I can make the gun a lessor advantage I will cut him deep, wide and frequent. Act weak and afraid and drop your wallet on the ground and plead for no harm or hand him the wallet and drop the car keys and when he looks down, GO. You have maybe a second to equal the playing field ( remember deep wide and frequent). If the guy is a killer he'll shoot first and then get your stuff later. Going against a gun without one is tough and dangerous. If the hammer on the gun isn't cocked you may have 2 seconds don't waist it. We're gun guys and we look at guns on TV and movies and see if the hammer is back or not don't we? Hold the knife with the handle in your hand and the blade down your forearm blade out. You have the use of your fist, a slashing blade and a back hand or downward stab. This type of close hand to hand or knife to gun takes training and practice and the bad guy holding the gun out front isn't expecting either. I never want it to go this way but if it does I do have a plan. The robber wants your cell phone not a fight. :yikes: Later,
    Fat Billy

    Recoil is how you know primer ignition is complete.
  • Aaron1100usAaron1100us New Member Posts: 18 New Member
    Lookimg for the hammer to be back is not a good idea. That only works on certain guns. Are you going to say, Hold still while I check to see if the hammer is back? Not very realistic. My Glock doesn't have a hammer and neither do a lot of guns. Trying to stick a gunman with a knife while he has a loaded gun pointed at isn't going to work very well either. Read some of what Masaad Ayoob has written about self defense.

    Sent from my SCH-R760 using Tapatalk 2
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