What cartridges have you taken deer with?

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Replies

  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 4,469 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    And a balistic tip bullet will likely come apart.

    I can tell you this as a fact.....

    I've fired many thousands of VMaxes at pdog in my life from .223's and a 6mm. Except for one that bounced off my truck windshield, I've never heard one ricochet. And, the ones that hit either the pdog or the ground that traveled any farther I could on count less than the fingers on my two hands. They simply come apart.

    OTOH, I'd loaded some 90 grain Sierra Varminters (not poly-tipped....more a tiny hollow point like a match bullet) for my .270 and let my nephew use it on a dog hunt. It didn't matter what they encountered....pdog, ground.....the ones that didn't bounce were the rarity. After the shot, you'd see multiple little dust clouds erupting for 2-300 yards behind your target.

    A fast varmint load is one of the safest (from a ricochet viewpoint) loads out there.

    Mike
    Decisions have consequences, not everything in life gets an automatic mulligan.
    KSU Firefighter
  • jbohiojbohio Senior Member Posts: 5,507 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    The logic of states that don't allow center fire rifles is flawed.
    My thinking is a 400-ish grain chunk-O-lead will will bounce and carry farther than say a 150 grain chunk, even if that lighter weight chunk is moving faster.
    Side note, interesting how this thread has morphed from what rounds we have shot deer with, to penis size, to slugs and their perceived limitations
    There's a school of thought that these days, it's as much a quality herd management tool, as a safety tool. Lots of the guys I talk to from PA and WV, think "shotgun only" is the reason we have the quality bucks that we do.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,076 Senior Member
    jbohio wrote: »
    There's a school of thought that these days, it's as much a quality herd management tool, as a safety tool. Lots of the guys I talk to from PA and WV, think "shotgun only" is the reason we have the quality bucks that we do.
    Why? I'd think that would be more due to a combination of genetics, forage, habitat, climate, and hunter ethics than the method used to harvest the game.

    To me that would be like saying that because a waterbody is artificial lure only, it'll provide more 10+ lb. largemouth bass...
    Overkill is underrated.
  • jbohiojbohio Senior Member Posts: 5,507 Senior Member
    Why? I'd think that would be more due to a combination of genetics, forage, habitat, climate, and hunter ethics than the method used to harvest the game.

    To me that would be like saying that because a waterbody is artificial lure only, it'll provide more 10+ lb. largemouth bass...
    Nah. Well, yeah, all of that, too. If rifles were allowed, you could sit on field edges, and pick off the big boys at what, 500-600 yards? Shotgun only, 250 yards might as well be a mile.
    That, and our gun season is only a week.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,827 Senior Member
    jbohio wrote: »
    There's a school of thought that these days, it's as much a quality herd management tool, as a safety tool. Lots of the guys I talk to from PA and WV, think "shotgun only" is the reason we have the quality bucks that we do.

    I dunno man, that sounds too much like the deal about a woman rubbing her boobs with toilet paper.

    :tooth:
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,076 Senior Member
    CPJ and JB: I guess one could argue that big bucks have gotten more wary to reach that size. Probably true.

    But I think that the one week gun season probably has more to do with that coupled with shotgun only. With only one week to harvest a deer with a gun, I'd imagine folks drop the first target they see rather than hope that they'll find mister big horns later that week. You put a short season on something, and folks will be more willing to take a "lower quality" animal.

    Kinda like being at a bar at closing time.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,827 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Notice I said bounce

    BC don't mean dick when a bullet has bounced off the ground and is tumbling.

    But that's a different argument. Are we talking shooting and ballistics or are we talking rolling boulders? The thing is you can't tell where a ricochet is going. It might even come right back to you. I'm referring to a bullet in flight and spinning properly and heading accurately toward the aiming point because the rifling in the barrel stabilized it and made it spin. Not hitting the ground and bouncing to the stars.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,076 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    There's something to your last statement, I think. There are a few trout streams around here that only allow X type of lure, and live bait ain't included.
    /QUOTE]
    Is that a quality fish management rule, a rule to limit harvest due to low numbers, or is it there because people want it? Probably not known, but it would be interesting to see "why" it was originally made.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,076 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Fish management rule. There are certain "zones" to the river. Zone X is flies only. Zone Y is file and other hairy type lures. Rooster tails, etc, but they have to be a single hook, not a treble. (I assume the single hook rule is to not hurt the sissy trout anymore than need be, for catch and release purposes) Then the other areas are whatever, live bait or Powerbait type stuff.
    By fish management, I mean "meant to grow bigger fish."

    Which isn't always done because it'll get bigger fish, but because anglers (who support the DNR with license sales) want it because they THINK it'll grow bigger fish.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,076 Senior Member
    cpj wrote:

    I got ya , and yeah I meant to say bigger fish management
    That's what I thought you meant.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • jbohiojbohio Senior Member Posts: 5,507 Senior Member
    CPJ and JB: I guess one could argue that big bucks have gotten more wary to reach that size. Probably true.

    But I think that the one week gun season probably has more to do with that coupled with shotgun only. With only one week to harvest a deer with a gun, I'd imagine folks drop the first target they see rather than hope that they'll find mister big horns later that week. You put a short season on something, and folks will be more willing to take a "lower quality" animal.

    Kinda like being at a bar at closing time.

    Yeah. Most guys shoot the first thing they see with horns, and then work on filling doe tags.
    It seriously changes the way we hunt, too. If a field is 300-400 yards wide, and you know a buck is working the edge, you have to sit right in his lap, hope he walks RIGHT past you. With a rifle, sit on the other side, pick him off when/where he pokes his head out.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,099 Senior Member
    Actually
    Do you realize how stupid that post sounds???
    Let's see, seventh grade??
    Seriously, what did this contribute to the post?
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,076 Senior Member
    jbohio wrote: »
    Yeah. Most guys shoot the first thing they see with horns, and then work on filling doe tags.
    It seriously changes the way we hunt, too. If a field is 300-400 yards wide, and you know a buck is working the edge, you have to sit right in his lap, hope he walks RIGHT past you. With a rifle, sit on the other side, pick him off when/where he pokes his head out.
    No doubt. I just am a bit leery of saying that limiting your hunters is the whole reason y'all have quality deer.

    Heck, here in FL you could restrict hunters to using an atlatl and you won't improve the deer herd because the forage sucks....
    Overkill is underrated.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,099 Senior Member
    Sorry about that. It has been awhile since someone posted that. It seemed like the right thing to do.

    Anyway... I just had a thought... You will see people hunting Africa blast some 20 pound deer looking thing with a .375 H&H. They do it because it was a target of opportunity or it was the only rifle handy at the moment.

    It doesn't blow that small animal straight to hell and nobody seems to have an issue with it. Shoot an 80 pound whitetail though and you better look out!
  • jbohiojbohio Senior Member Posts: 5,507 Senior Member
    No doubt. I just am a bit leery of saying that limiting your hunters is the whole reason y'all have quality deer.

    Heck, here in FL you could restrict hunters to using an atlatl and you won't improve the deer herd because the forage sucks....

    The reason I brought it up, we've been working out east, with guys from all over. The PA and WV guys have all commented the same thing. They have very similar climate,forage, habitat, but not near the quality deer. They're both rifle states. I never even thought about it before people mentioned it to me.
  • jbohiojbohio Senior Member Posts: 5,507 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Shoot an 80 pound whitetail though and you better look out!
    Wait. Is that a cartridge thought, or a small deer thought? I'm confused.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,099 Senior Member
    Cartridge thought-- and a geographical thought! It appears fine to shoot a 20 pound deer in Africa with a 375 H&H but stupid overkill to use one down south on an animal 4 times the size.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,076 Senior Member
    jbohio wrote: »
    The reason I brought it up, we've been working out east, with guys from all over. The PA and WV guys have all commented the same thing. They have very similar climate,forage, habitat, but not near the quality deer. They're both rifle states. I never even thought about it before people mentioned it to me.
    How much longer are their seasons? That, coupled with the rifles, probably has some effect. You can take 'em longer and afford to wait for a bigger one to show up...
    Overkill is underrated.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,564 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Sorry about that. It has been awhile since someone posted that. It seemed like the right thing to do.

    Anyway... I just had a thought... You will see people hunting Africa blast some 20 pound deer looking thing with a .375 H&H. They do it because it was a target of opportunity or it was the only rifle handy at the moment.

    It doesn't blow that small animal straight to hell and nobody seems to have an issue with it. Shoot an 80 pound whitetail though and you better look out!

    BINGO
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 7,714 Senior Member
    Originally Posted by Jermanator

    Anyway... I just had a thought... You will see people hunting Africa blast some 20 pound deer looking thing with a .375 H&H. They do it because it was a target of opportunity or it was the only rifle handy at the moment.

    It doesn't blow that small animal straight to hell and nobody seems to have an issue with it. Shoot an 80 pound whitetail though and you better look out!


    Zee wrote: »
    BINGO

    ............which kinda closes the whole argument about using too much gun.

    14 pages and we finally got there lol. ( Sometimes the journey is more fun than arriving at the destination)
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • jbohiojbohio Senior Member Posts: 5,507 Senior Member
    That's why I mainly deer hunt with a bow these days. It's near impossible to find a deer you've been tracking all season, once the shooting starts. They scatter. The big bucks head for the nastiest, deepest, darkest places they can find, and hunker down for a week.
    I shot one of my better bucks by hanging a stand on the edge of a massive multiflora thicket, and hoping he made a mistake. He did.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 25,957 Senior Member
    Talking about the size of the deer in Ohio and Pennsylvania and comparing them to other deer elsewhere. OH and Penn have a huge amount of farming that includes lots of food that put mass on a deer's frame, like corn, soybeans, and people food stuff. Deer eat pretty good up there, and grow pretty big.

    Deer where I live survive on rougher grub than they do up there, and are smaller. And the deer that were reintroduced here were from up North. But they don't grow nearly as large. They tried to get the deer here to grow bigger in the late 80's and early 90's and brought in deer from Ohio. Didn't work; food just isn't as good.

    Which brings up another thing that doesn't make sense. West TN has some very good deer habitat as to food. Lots of farming of good deer feed over there, but the deer are so thick that they are stunted from lack of adequate diet of good food; too many deer for the food available. And from East of Nashville to the Mississippi River, big hunting clubs have leased up most of the good hunting land and go for the big buck management and turn up their noses at the does. So there are huge herds of does over there that eat everything edible.

    As to where I live, there are some big bucks and does along the river due to the farming there, but we've had some problems with disease, and that has been spotty. Some places the deer are healthy, and others the deer are skin and bones. I have a theory on that, but I'll keep it to myself until the TWRA finally gets the study done.
    Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.


  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,099 Senior Member
    Another factor in deer size is the climate. Up here a large body mass is a way they help survive the winter. The further south you go, not only isn't it needed, but it is harder for the deer to stay cool. A big body actually works against them in a hotter climate.
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,104 Senior Member
    I think you're referring to terminal ballistics. I believe internal ballistics are how the powder behaves inside of the case upon ignition.

    Yes. My error.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 4,469 Senior Member
    Actually, internal ballistics is everything that happens from primer ignition until the base of the bullet clears the muzzle. IOW, not just inside the case at ignition.

    Mike
    Decisions have consequences, not everything in life gets an automatic mulligan.
    KSU Firefighter
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,076 Senior Member
    Linefinder wrote: »
    Actually, internal ballistics is everything that happens from primer ignition until the base of the bullet clears the muzzle. IOW, not just inside the case at ignition.

    Mike
    My mistake.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,827 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Another factor in deer size is the climate. Up here a large body mass is a way they help survive the winter. The further south you go, not only isn't it needed, but it is harder for the deer to stay cool. A big body actually works against them in a hotter climate.
    Yep that do make sense. I guess that's why deer in the Florida Keys are midgets, Texas Whitetails are Not huge, but the farther north you go the bigger they get. Only thing is, go down to the Texas Brush Country just up from Mexico and they have only fair size bodies, but rack wise some of the biggest whitetail in the country have come from there.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 25,957 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    They have a Savage bolt action 20 gauge slug gun at the local Walmart. I have zero idea as to why. But, I want it. I'm not going to buy it, but, I want it.

    I like that model 220 stainless with camo synthetic stock. I'd take a blued with camo synthetic, though. Neat little bolt shotgun with some possibilities.
    Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.


  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,564 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    They have a Savage bolt action 20 gauge slug gun at the local Walmart. I have zero idea as to why. But, I want it. I'm not going to buy it, but, I want it.

    I'm with you. I'll never buy one, but I've always wanted a bolt action slug gun. Just because.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 25,957 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    I'm with you. I'll never buy one, but I've always wanted a bolt action slug gun. Just because.

    I have 3; .410, 20 ga., and 12 ga. Eat your heart out! :rotflmao:
    Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.


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