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No Guns for Medical Marijuana Users

CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior MemberPosts: 5,486 Senior Member
With the stroke of a pen, the ATF just created another prohibited class of people.




http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/No-Guns-for-Medical-Marijuana-Users--130864873.html
When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

Adam J. McCleod


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Replies

  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,611 Senior Member
    When do we keep the firearms away from the drunks?
    Overkill is underrated.
  • TugarTugar Senior Member Posts: 2,330 Senior Member
    Bream has an excellent point. Yet another shining example of governmental hypocrisy.
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
    Winston Churchill
  • ghostsniper1ghostsniper1 Banned Posts: 2,645 Senior Member
    Geez. Whats a stoner gonna do? Become crazed after he runs out of his bag of doritos.... What the hell. Its nice to see our gov't bunch people who use a legitimate medication into the same category as felons.
  • LerchessLerchess Senior Member Posts: 550 Senior Member
    I think its the feds' way of countering state laws legalizing weed for "medicinal" purposes.

    Its one of the few things I think they have done right in quite awhile. But then, I have little use for dopers.
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,555 Senior Member
    It will be interesting to see how they plan to work out the mechanics of enforcing this.

    11E on the 4473 asks if you are an unlawful drug user, and a person with a state-issued medical marijuana card would not be.

    It would be a slippery slope indeed if persons with medical marijuana permits were somehow required to be plugged into the NICS system along with the drug dealers and armed robbers.

    So if federal law trumps state law in this issue, does this mean we can use it as a precedent to invalidate California's AWB?:uhm:
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,611 Senior Member
    What if someone's on oxycodone or prescription narcotic pain meds? Does that preclude their purchasing a firearm?
    Overkill is underrated.
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    Lerchess wrote: »
    I think its the feds' way of countering state laws legalizing weed for "medicinal" purposes.

    Its one of the few things I think they have done right in quite awhile. But then, I have little use for dopers.


    What exactly have they done right? I really need to that explained to me.
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    What if someone's on oxycodone or prescription narcotic pain meds? Does that preclude their purchasing a firearm?

    Those drugs aren't FEDERALLY outlawed.
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,611 Senior Member
    Maybe. But the whole thing about medical pot is stupid. If it has a therapeutic effect with minimal side effects, why outlaw it.

    Oh, that's right, because its pot. Also, your oxy addicts are usually a different type of folk.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • Hugh DamrightHugh Damright Member Posts: 169 Member
    weed for "medicinal" purposes

    There really are medicinal purposes ... I currently have a prescription for marijuana pills (marinol/dronabinol).

    If a State infringed on the RKBA of marijuana users, I wouldn't like it, I might call it hypocrisy ... but when the feds do it I think it's tryanny - police powers were reserved to the States.
  • LerchessLerchess Senior Member Posts: 550 Senior Member
    Bigslug wrote: »
    It will be interesting to see how they plan to work out the mechanics of enforcing this.

    11E on the 4473 asks if you are an unlawful drug user, and a person with a state-issued medical marijuana card would not be.


    They would have to answer yes to that question because it is a federal form. Pot is still illegal per the feds.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Marijuana does indeed have medical uses, glaucoma, as a palliative medication for chemotherapy patients so they can eat without vomiting, and smoking it is cheaper and more effective than other forms of application.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • LerchessLerchess Senior Member Posts: 550 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    What exactly have they done right? I really need to that explained to me.

    By not allowing people with "medical" marijuana cards to purchase firearms. This is my opinion - you clearly disagree and life goes on.
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,463 Senior Member
    So the people who have a card to purchase a drug legally in limited quantities cannot purchase a firearm, but crackhead Bob down the corner can freebase cocaine and walk into a lgs and if he has no felonies, purchase a firearm legally?



    Sent from my Motorola Atrix 4G via Tapatalk
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,992 Senior Member
    I agree with the BATFE on this one, because firearms ownership and transfer is regulated under federal law. Federal law states that illegal users of controlled substances may not possess firearms, and pot is still a federaly banned substance, in spite of State laws allowing its medicinal use.

    Their policy is consistant. If medicinal pot smokers want to own guns they need to get the Fed's / FDA to recognize it as a medicinal substance.

    Alchohol is legal and it's OK to own both guns and alchohol. I can have a prescription for a wide variety of drugs and still own a firearm.

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,721 Senior Member
    Geez. Whats a stoner gonna do? Become crazed after he runs out of his bag of doritos.... What the hell. Its nice to see our gov't bunch people who use a legitimate medication into the same category as felons.

    Hardly
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Hmmmm- - - - - -this gives a whole new meaning to the word "Stoner" when talking about an M-16!
    :rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao:
    Jerry
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    BigDanS wrote: »
    Their policy is consistant. If medicinal pot smokers want to own guns they need to get the Fed's / FDA to recognize it as a medicinal substance.

    Alchohol is legal and it's OK to own both guns and alchohol. I can have a prescription for a wide variety of drugs and still own a firearm.

    D

    The FDA is not going to recognize MJ as a medicine. The Feds make too much money from the pharmaceutical companies. If the FDA said OK to medicinal MJ, how many people would stop taking $30+ copay prescriptions and grow pot instead? Especially if you didn't have to worry about the MP5 goon squad kicking down your door at 3AM because of some plants in your green house.

    Some of you guys pay lip service to smaller government. Legalization is a big step in that direction. Fewer cops and less worthless FDA regulations.
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,135 Senior Member
    Here in Michigan, we have a medical marijuana law. I supported and voted for it thinking it would be used by people for legitimate, bonafide purposes (which it has been) but there is also what appears to be the much larger recreational group taking advantage of the law. Basically, anyone with a hang nail can go in and see a doctor at clinic that specializes in marijuana therapy, and can walk out with a state license to use and grow pot.

    It kind of pissed me off at first knowing that well meaning voters such as myself were taken for a ride, but have changed my view about it over time. Dope money now stays in state as opposed to going out of the country to drug cartels. It has to help our economy somehow. Hydroponic indoor gardening suppliers have sprung up everywhere which are small businesses that create legitimate jobs. Plumbers, builders, and carpenters have been getting work building grow rooms. It has essentially put dealers out of business as well-- why have a dealer when you can grow better stuff than they have and it is much cheaper to do it legally? Now police can focus on the people that sell dope to kids or bust up meth labs.

    I have not noticed pharmacies going out of business because everyone is "treating" themselves with pot either. The pharmaceutical business is still very much alive and well in Michigan.

    I want nothing to do with marijuana, but people that do so are just going to do it anyway. Police have better things to do with their scarce resources.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    I knew this was going to happen anyway, I have stayed away from pot in any case, and My firearms are more important to me than is any vice.
    However, even My Dad as against drugs as he was used to say criminalization of pot was a waste of LE resources and Court cases and that it seemed nothing had been learned from the lesson of prohibition during the twenties.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,721 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Here in Michigan, we have a medical marijuana law. I supported and voted for it thinking it would be used by people for legitimate, bonafide purposes (which it has been) but there is also what appears to be the much larger recreational group taking advantage of the law. Basically, anyone with a hang nail can go in and see a doctor at clinic that specializes in marijuana therapy, and can walk out with a state license to use and grow pot.

    It kind of pissed me off at first knowing that well meaning voters such as myself were taken for a ride, but have changed my view about it over time. Dope money now stays in state as opposed to going out of the country to drug cartels. It has to help our economy somehow. Hydroponic indoor gardening suppliers have sprung up everywhere which are small businesses that create legitimate jobs. Plumbers, builders, and carpenters have been getting work building grow rooms. It has essentially put dealers out of business as well-- why have a dealer when you can grow better stuff than they have and it is much cheaper to do it legally? Now police can focus on the people that sell dope to kids or bust up meth labs.

    When I go camping and riding a lot of my children's friends show up. I have the toys which I don't mind. I enjoy their company most of them anyway. One thing I noticed is when the day winds down and the campfire is lit a lot of vials of medical marijuana show up. I ask how they get it, silly question really. The replies were I have a prescription. If they want to legalize it fine but I don't want to hear this medical pot crap.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 17,418 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    With the stroke of a pen, the ATF just created another prohibited class of people.

    Actually, it's the other way around...the states created the problem when they signed the MM bills into law without considering the ages old Federal prohibition of the substance...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • ghostsniper1ghostsniper1 Banned Posts: 2,645 Senior Member
    BigDanS wrote: »
    I agree with the BATFE on this one, because firearms ownership and transfer is regulated under federal law. Federal law states that illegal users of controlled substances may not possess firearms, and pot is still a federaly banned substance, in spite of State laws allowing its medicinal use.

    Their policy is consistant. If medicinal pot smokers want to own guns they need to get the Fed's / FDA to recognize it as a medicinal substance.

    Alchohol is legal and it's OK to own both guns and alchohol. I can have a prescription for a wide variety of drugs and still own a firearm.

    D
    Well the law tells me Im only safe going a maximum of 65mph on the highway, but seems that doesn't stop me anyways. And whether or not the people who get MM are getting it for a legitimate purpose, and yes it does have true purposes..... who the hell cares??? Potheads never bothered me any. Out of all "drugs," marijuana is the one that is all natural, not processed, cooked, extracted. I am for one not a smoker or user of it, but for crying out loud..... ITS A DAMN FLOWER. Some of you oldies gotta get the garbage propaganda out of your heads that was taught back in the day. Hell, heroine was touted as a miracle drug when first found, now look at the truth. Seems the ole Mary J has passed the test of time. As I mentioned in my earlier post, the worst you get is people that like the .89cent big gulp soda, visine sales and a shortage of potatoe chips.
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    I have not noticed pharmacies going out of business because everyone is "treating" themselves with pot either. The pharmaceutical business is still very much alive and well in Michigan.

    I didn't mean to insinuate that pharma would go out of business. People still need Viagra, Cialis, birth control, acne creams, Rogaine, and a myriad of other "treatments".

    With MM, a person can self medicate without having to pay for a doctor's visit and then pay for whatever synthetic concoction with god-only-knows side effects. Pain treatment, depression, glaucoma, and countering the side effects of chemo are legitimate uses for MM. Even frequent recreational users suffer far less side effects than the average booze consumer.
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 11,454 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    Legalization is a big step in that direction. Fewer cops and less worthless FDA regulations.

    It is more palatable when you say de-criminalization. Legalization evokes images of an Oklahoma land rush to run down to Walgreens and get a pack of doobies.

    De-criminalization sounds more like just repealing some stupid laws.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,135 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    I didn't mean to insinuate that pharma would go out of business. People still need Viagra, Cialis, birth control, acne creams, Rogaine, and a myriad of other "treatments".

    With MM, a person can self medicate without having to pay for a doctor's visit and then pay for whatever synthetic concoction with god-only-knows side effects. Pain treatment, depression, glaucoma, and countering the side effects of chemo are legitimate uses for MM. Even frequent recreational users suffer far less side effects than the average booze consumer.

    While I am in complete agreement with you as far as de-criminalization/legalization goes, the above argument isn't a very good one. People have been self medicating for years. Nothing wrong with that. I have a variety of herbal and OTC remedies in the house for assorted ailments and have no negative bias against marijuana for the same purpose. I just believe that the whole pot lobby has gone way overboard in its medicinal claims. Its use is just a few of thousands of OTC/folk/herbal remedies that are out there. Quit telling me about the doctor/big pharma conspiracy.

    The reality is that some people like to get high. Fine! I don't care as long as they don't use firearms, drive, or operate heavy machinery while under the influence.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,555 Senior Member
    Really, what is the difference between banning drugs on the off chance somebody might do something bad while under their influence, and banning guns on the off chance somebody might do something bad while in possession of one?

    Punish people when they do harm to another, FOR THE CRIME OF DOING HARM TO ANOTHER, and leave the fact that drugs or guns were involved out of the process. Like Eli said before the forum crash "I don't care if you walk down the street freebasing on coke with an AT-4 strapped to your back, so long as you aren't pointing it at me"
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,992 Senior Member
    Like I said earlier, MM / MJ is a federally controlled substance and not legal to the federal government. Fed law states you are not allowed to own a gun and illegally use controled substances, therefore, MM users by fed law are illegal drug users. Their policy is consistant with the Fed law, no matter what I personally think.

    I believe the law frowns on alchohol use and gun play as well. You can own a bottle of scotch, but don't drink and shoot.

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • JeeperJeeper Senior Member Posts: 2,954 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Here in Michigan, we have a medical marijuana law. I supported and voted for it thinking it would be used by people for legitimate, bonafide purposes (which it has been) but there is also what appears to be the much larger recreational group taking advantage of the law. Basically, anyone with a hang nail can go in and see a doctor at clinic that specializes in marijuana therapy, and can walk out with a state license to use and grow pot.

    It kind of pissed me off at first knowing that well meaning voters such as myself were taken for a ride, but have changed my view about it over time. Dope money now stays in state as opposed to going out of the country to drug cartels. It has to help our economy somehow. Hydroponic indoor gardening suppliers have sprung up everywhere which are small businesses that create legitimate jobs. Plumbers, builders, and carpenters have been getting work building grow rooms. It has essentially put dealers out of business as well-- why have a dealer when you can grow better stuff than they have and it is much cheaper to do it legally? Now police can focus on the people that sell dope to kids or bust up meth labs.

    I have not noticed pharmacies going out of business because everyone is "treating" themselves with pot either. The pharmaceutical business is still very much alive and well in Michigan.

    I want nothing to do with marijuana, but people that do so are just going to do it anyway. Police have better things to do with their scarce resources.

    Agreed. I don't approve of the use of Marijuana, but I surely see no point in criminalizing it when alcohol is far more widely abused.

    Luis
    Wielding the Hammer of Thor first requires you to lift and carry the Hammer of Thor. - Bigslug
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    Just so we're clear on this, up until 1937 marijuana was uncontrolled, and used as a legal drug dispensed by pharmacies. The 1937 Marijuana Tax Act was racist in nature, and if you bother to think about it, still is. The origin of marijuana laws is racist, just as the opium laws passed before that were racist in origin. History of this stuff is not hard to dig up. Here's a start:

    http://www.britannica.com/blogs/2010/10/reefer-madness-and-the-prohibition-of-marijuana-in-the-united-states/

    If this link doesn't open your eyes, nothing will:

    http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/history/history.htm
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
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