Home Main Category Personal Defense

Pardon the Interruption......

bobbyrlf3bobbyrlf3 Senior MemberPosts: 2,543 Senior Member
Have you ever been giving instructions on self-defense best practices or gun safety in general and been interrupted by someone who overheard you explaining something and decided to interject a differing opinion? How did you handle it?

My example is a time when I was explaining the safety rules to a group of scouts; I was using the NRA standard 3 rules when one of the dads piped up and said he wanted to "add a rule to that", and gave the "treat all guns as if they are loaded" rule.

While I personally have no problem with that rule (it's as valid as the NRA rules, just slightly different), and I know a lot of people use/teach it, I think it's pretty presumptuous to interrupt an instructor unless he's giving information that you know to be false, misleading, or otherwise unsafe. I say that because this guy went out of his way to be dramatic about his "concern" for kids who don't use firearms safely and "end up killing themselves or others".

I could see from his expressions and body language that he really felt he was giving information that was missing from the instruction and was pretty satisfied with himself, but the kids were looking around with befuddled expressions.

Ironically, when I called for dry fire so the kids could get a feel for the triggers (a lot of first-timers in this group), this guy loaded his kid's rifle with a round and had him fire it. Great listening skills, dude.

So, I'd be interested in reading about your experiences and how you handle them. I think it can make me a better instructor.
Knowledge is essential to living freely and fully; understanding gives knowledge purpose and strength; wisdom is combining the two and applying them appropriately in words and actions.

Replies

  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    helicopter parents. sigh.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,768 Senior Member
    bobbyrlf3 wrote: »

    Ironically, when I called for dry fire so the kids could get a feel for the triggers (a lot of first-timers in this group), this guy loaded his kid's rifle with a round and had him fire it. Great listening skills, dude.

    At this point, "Dad" would have been escorted OUT of my class and off my range....Period....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,288 Senior Member
    IMHO, and I have been where you are, the NRA rules are a bit vauge. That said, being vauge has its advantages. In this case, you look at the parent, say "Correct." then quickly look back at the scouts before you let him expound on his thought, and say something on the order of... "And this is why we have rule #1. ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction. You are treating the gun as if it is loaded by doing what?" wait for "always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction" from the scouts continue.."because if it is loaded, pointing it in a safe direction is one of the best methods of making sure nothing bad happens." Then keep going with the class.

    I am going through it with a mom now. They want to be in our troop because we do a lot of backpacking, camping and canoeing, and our program works and is proven to work, every time, every year. Everyone has their own input and unfortunatley, you cant tell them that that is the dumbest idea you ever heard and that it wont work, at least the first time.

    Per BSA, daddy shouldnt be handling the rifle and ammunition anyway unless he went through the instructors course. You need to make that more clear.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • jaywaptijaywapti Senior Member Posts: 4,931 Senior Member
    When I was teaching any firearms class, the door was closed and only the students and instructors were in the room, parents and friends were asked to leave so as not to distract the students, that also applied to range time.
    If the class was outdoors the same rule applied.

    JAY
    THE DEFINITION OF GUN CONTROL IS HITTING THE TARGET WITH YOUR FIRST SHOT
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Easy..this coversation is between A&B....C your butt outta here!
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,607 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    At this point, "Dad" would have been escorted OUT of my class and off my range....Period....


    This. Dad has a right to do his teaching his way, but on HIS time, NOT your time. Directly ignoring the instructor is not only stupid, but disrespectful.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,152 Senior Member
    bobbyrlf3 wrote: »
    I was using the NRA standard 3 rules when one of the dads piped up and said he wanted to "add a rule to that", and gave the "treat all guns as if they are loaded" rule.

    Mmmmmmm. . .yeah. . .about that. The NRA instruction program needs to wrap their collective head around the fact that outside of their own little world of three rules, the rest of the world is running on Gunsite's four, which, frankly, are a heck of a lot more applicable to the real world. You're teaching Betamax in a VHS world, and so you're gonna run into that - A LOT. Better get accustomed.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,288 Senior Member
    Bigslug wrote: »
    Mmmmmmm. . .yeah. . .about that. The NRA instruction program needs to wrap their collective head around the fact that outside of their own little world of three rules, the rest of the world is running on Gunsite's four, which, frankly, are a heck of a lot more applicable to the real world. You're teaching Betamax in a VHS world, and so you're gonna run into that - A LOT. Better get accustomed.

    Not so much. The NRA's are more vague than Gunsites which means they cover more applications. Coopers Rule #1 is "All guns are always loaded." Does this mean that you cannot dry fire? If the muzzle is pointed in a safe direction, then you may dry fire.

    I have some problems with the 3 rules, but the 4 rules are not the be all to end all either.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • bobbyrlf3bobbyrlf3 Senior Member Posts: 2,543 Senior Member
    Thanks for the responses so far. I realize now that I went a little too easy on the interloper, so I will handle that more aggressively, but respectfully, next time. With all due respect to everyone who has responded, I don't dispute which rules are best for teaching, but I have seen that "all guns are always loaded" approach doesn't work as well for me. I have an easier time getting kids to adopt the "Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction" approach; at least, that is my experience. With almost every kid I've instructed, they can repeat those rules back to me within a few repetitions.

    That being said, it matters most that you have strong conviction when you say it, with no equivocations.

    I'd be glad to hear more experiences.
    Knowledge is essential to living freely and fully; understanding gives knowledge purpose and strength; wisdom is combining the two and applying them appropriately in words and actions.
  • Pelagic KayakerPelagic Kayaker Banned Posts: 1,503 Senior Member
    Bigslug wrote: »
    Mmmmmmm. . .yeah. . .about that. The NRA instruction program needs to wrap their collective head around the fact that outside of their own little world of three rules, the rest of the world is running on Gunsite's four, which, frankly, are a heck of a lot more applicable to the real world. You're teaching Betamax in a VHS world, and so you're gonna run into that - A LOT. Better get accustomed.

    Oh brother, here we go with "my country club is better than yours". ...sigh. Reminds me of the vid of that kid in little league who isn't allowed to listen to the coach and is a burden to the rest of the team because of an over zealous parent. Let instructors do their job for pete sakes. Btw... VHS went the way of the Dodo 15 years ago.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,490 Senior Member
    Bigslug wrote: »
    Mmmmmmm. . .yeah. . .about that. The NRA instruction program needs to wrap their collective head around the fact that outside of their own little world of three rules, the rest of the world is running on Gunsite's four, which, frankly, are a heck of a lot more applicable to the real world. You're teaching Betamax in a VHS world, and so you're gonna run into that - A LOT. Better get accustomed.
    2 things....
    1. Dad's not the instructor, so he has no real place interjecting his ideas into what the instructor is saying. He can ask questions, but adding to the curriculum is not what he's supposed to do. This is scouting, correct? The father's actions aren't exactly courteous, and his actions during dry fire were neither helpful nor obedient. So dad's not really setting a good example.
    2. If folks don't know how to treat a gun, they don't know what "treat all guns as if they are loaded" really means, do they?
    Overkill is underrated.
Sign In or Register to comment.
Magazine Cover

GET THE MAGAZINE Subscribe & Save

Temporary Price Reduction

SUBSCRIBE NOW

Give a Gift   |   Subscriber Services

PREVIEW THIS MONTH'S ISSUE

GET THE NEWSLETTER Join the List and Never Miss a Thing.

Get the top Guns & Ammo stories delivered right to your inbox every week.

Advertisement