German Sport Guns

BAMAAK

AKA GSG. Anyone know anything about them? They seem to be everywhere lately. .22s in all shapes and sizes. I'm thinking of a new rimfire rifle for competing. I really liked the HK (Walther) I shot at the shoot. Don't really want a 10/22 only to have to upgrade it a bunch. No I can't afford an Anshutz or whatever it is. Just curious about these GSGs.

Farm Boy Deuce

Everything I hear says they are great plinking guns. Very reliable, plenty accurate for pop can pocylips.

shotgunshooter3

Every GSG owner I know has been satisfied. For me personally the 10/22 and M&P 15-22 fill my needs, but I wouldn't turn my nose up at GSG at all.

tennmike

I've got one of the GSG AK-.22 rifles. Fun shooter for plinking, but not something I'd ever consider worthwhile for any kind of competition where accuracy was the game.

KENFU1911

Sold a bunch of em...no complaints..... shoot good,,reliable....... but aint gonna chase a CZ452 off the range,,,,,,,,,,,,, just a fun TactiCool Plinker........Ken

DanChamberlain

I suppose like everything, it's a personal preference, but I recall a converted AR that I used in the Air Force as being reasonably accurate and actually pretty reliable. Wuz I going to go .22lr in a battle carbine style platform, I'd consider an AR.

snake284

Like was said, the only pimping a 10-22 actually needs to make it accurate is a trigger tweak. I did mine with a target trigger kit. It has a great trigger now. At the 50 yard range it will shoot 1 inch all day with my old tired eyes and a 9x scope. Younger eyes could tighten that up quite a bit I'm sure.

BigDanS

Define competition / competing.

If you need 50 to 100 yard accuracy, buy a CZ 452 or Savage Mark II bolt gun. Most .22 bolt guns will crazy accurate if you have a great trigger and stay under 50 yards. Even a Savage Rascal single shot will deliver groups as small as .75 inches at 25 yards with peep sights for under $150.

If semi auto and accuracy is your need, a 10/22 is hard to beat. If you shop hard you can get a decent used one down to around $200.

In AR styled .22 I found Eli's S&W M&P15-22 exceptional.

IMHO

D

Bigslug

BAMAAK wrote: »

I'm thinking of a new rimfire rifle for competing. . . Don't really want a 10/22 only to have to upgrade it a bunch. No I can't afford an Anshutz or whatever it is.

Another query of "what KIND of competition", because you just described the two polar opposites of .22 performance requirements

Are you wanting to run around zapping dinger plates against a stopwatch, or are you looking to precisely take on bullseyes with X-rings smaller than the diameter of your bullet?

BAMAAK

Yea dinger plates against a stopwatch, typically 30 yds, no optics. Currently using a Marlin 795 and it works ok, needs trigger help which may help the times. I found a spring kit for the trigger assembly. I think it lowers the trigger to like 3lbs from the stock 6. Better sights may also help, not found any of those yet not sure you can change the rear.

I managed ok with my MKIII pistol 3.4 sec/6 shots @ 10 yds. Not fast enough yet but was trying more for hits than speed. Rifle was slower, 5.6 was fastest, I could have gone faster but was not feeling it with the rifle so slowed down for accuracy. I either need better sights or a red dot and change classes. One string I let loose after a jam and went quite fast with no misses but the jam hosed my time up. Still tons of fun.

tennmike

All of the GSG semiauto rifles are light. Not what you want in that plate competition. The sights on all of them kind of inhale vigorously for fast target acquisition. Swinging from target to target a heavier, muzzle heavy, barrel profile is more smooth in the swing and no muzzle rise after the shot. Unfortunately, the only player in the game with heavier profile barrels is the Ruger. Marlin and Savage don't really offer that versatility and aftermarket parts choices of the 10-22. Get a used Ruger 10-22, tweak the trigger yourself(it's easy) and have fun. You can get a heavier profile barrel later if you want.

Bigslug

BAMAAK wrote: »

Yea dinger plates against a stopwatch, typically 30 yds, no optics.

10/22 with a set of these: http://www.tech-sights.com/ruger3.htm

Trigger job optional.

BAMAAK

They make those same sights for my marlin. I was thinking that type sight may be slow to acquire the target or am I wrong?

I was looking at this http://www.diproductsinc.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=156299&CAT=3603 as well as the lighter springs. The trigger is adjustable for the pretravel so it should make it crisp. Not sure about sights yet. I do like the Marlin, just needs little tweaking I think. But I am looking for 10/22 deals also, not found any yet.

Bigslug

cpj wrote: »

Bullcrap. 10-22 triggers are among the worst I've felt. Spare me the "you'll get used to it" speech.
Life's to short to pull a crappy trigger.

Pay Chris no mind. He usually shoots in satin ballet slippers and has the underside of his mattress regularly swept for peas.:fiddle:

Bigslug

BAMAAK wrote: »

They make those same sights for my marlin. I was thinking that type sight may be slow to acquire the target or am I wrong?

Same sight picture as the Garand, M14, and M16.

Big Chief

Bigslug wrote: »

Pay Chris no mind. He usually shoots in satin ballet slippers and has the underside of his mattress regularly swept for peas.:fiddle:

:spittingcoffee::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao:

Plus he is really sexy in his spandex shorts................

Actually, having met him twice he is a nice young man. Or, at least, he was well behaved in Mrs Mary's kitchen and on the firing line!

DanChamberlain

My 10-22 trigger is really very good, un-modified. The heads of squirrels out to 50 yards are no problem - well, sometimes I hit the neck.

Bigslug

In all seriousness, my "you'll get used to it" speech consists of the following:

As long as the gun is accurate enough for the game mechanically (and a 10/22 probably is for what it sounds like you're planning to do), working with a trigger that falls well short of your erotic dream about the perfect trigger pull WILL make you a much better shooter in the long run. The reason is simple: if your trigger has quirks, you'll be a lot more attentive to position, breathing, and other technique elements. A lot of folks end up using a sexy trigger as a crutch because they SSSSSSUUUUUUUUUCK in these areas and don't even know it. Get that stuff down, and you'll be fine with something that's merely clean, but heavy. Nice thing about 10/22's - most shops usually have enough in the back that you can pick and choose through to find something workable.

BAMAAK

cpj wrote: »

Bullcrap. 10-22 triggers are among the worst I've felt. Spare me the "you'll get used to it" speech.
Life's to short to pull a crappy trigger.

I like that, can I use it for my sig line?

olesniper

The LGS that I bought the HK MP5A5 at, no longer carries the GSG version of the MP5. Out of the 10 they sold, 6 were brought back with feeding problems. The next one I plan on getting, sounds like it would suit your purposes. The HK 416D 145RS .22lr, It's is also built by Carl Walther.

ilove22s

what ever you buy, do some homework on it.

at one time the HK 22 clones had issues.

check out rimfirecentral.com and use the search function.

hopefully whatever you choose to buy will have any bugs worked out.

BAMAAK

I ordered a set of tech sights and a trigger group for the marlin. Held off on the lighter springs, didn't want to change to much at once. If they don't seem to help I'll look into something else. Leaning a little towards a M&P 15-22 or 10-22. The M&P can use standard AR15 parts like triggers and such right?

BAMAAK

I've thought about that, I have a cheap lower I could add a .22 upper onto. Most of the AR uppers in .22 I've seen are from companys like Chiappa. Would they be worth a crap?

tennmike

CMMG makes a few .22 LR conversion kits for AR-15 rifles.

http://www.cmmginc.com/category_s/1851.htm

Brownell's and Bass Pro have the CMMG kits for a bit cheaper than the CMMG website.

BigDanS

$525 for a dedicated AR upper is more than the S&W MP15-22.... kind of a non starter.

D

BAMAAK

BigDanS wrote: »

$525 for a dedicated AR upper is more than the S&W MP15-22.... kind of a non starter.

D

$280.00 with a 28 rd mag but it's Chiappa so I don't know how good it is.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/80361/Hi+Point+500057+Complete+Upper+22LR+with+28rd+Mag+-+Chiappa

Eli

BAMAAK wrote: »

The M&P can use standard AR15 parts like triggers and such right?

The M&P can.....the others (Mossberg, Colt, Umarex, Chiappa, H&K) can't.

When it comes to semi-auto .22s, get a 10/22 or an M&P15-22.......no lie, they are the two best semi-auto rimfires on the market.

Bigslug

My experience is rather limited with .22LR AR-15's, but I'm not sure I'd want the AR's large 2.5" offset offset between bore and sights on a system I'd be shooting for score at close range with. Others doubtless have better first-hand intel on how to zero to best exploit the trajectories. With 5.56 NATO, we accept the quirk of the short range holdover because we've got a 500 yard capable weapon, but on an up-close, all-the-time rifle, maybe not so much

BAMAAK

Well I put in a new trigger and new tech sights on my 795 Marlin today. Have not shot it yet but I can really tell the difference already. Much shorter pull, crisper break. I think I can adjust a little more play out of it. I am going to order a spring set to make it 3lbs v 6.5 but it is much improve d . I really like the sights too. .062 aperture, I think the .04 would be to small for me so I like these.

Antonio

Friend of mine has a 795 he got brand-new for a great price at a local gun store. He uses the gun for plinking and silhouette shooting matches and won't trade it for any other semiauto .22; he made a few trigger modifications and according to him, now it run as a champ.

Local range has a Colt/Umarex .22LR AR for rental; they seldom clean it and most clients shoot it with the cheapest bulk ammo available (Remington Thunderbolt or Winchester Wildcat; a few will use Winchester SuperX) and even so, it has seldom shown any malfunctions. Might be worthwhile to take a look at it.

olesniper

Antonio wrote: »

Friend of mine has a 795 he got brand-new for a great price at a local gun store. He uses the gun for plinking and silhouette shooting matches and won't trade it for any other semiauto .22; he made a few trigger modifications and according to him, now it run as a champ.

Local range has a Colt/Umarex .22LR AR for rental; they seldom clean it and most clients shoot it with the cheapest bulk ammo available (Remington Thunderbolt or Winchester Wildcat; a few will use Winchester SuperX) and even so, it has seldom shown any malfunctions. Might be worthwhile to take a look at it.

That Colt/Umarex is made by Carl Walther.