The human cost to pay down the socialist debt...

JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior MemberPosts: 6,140 Senior Member
Had a lot of time to talk with my friend on the 5 hour ride to Key West yesterday and this came up.

Nevermind the economic ruin this closet socialist regime is racking up, but what about the "moral debt" their racking up?

So a moral "surplus" would be a nation, prosperous and evolving, that embraces the advancement of all citizens and affords the opportunity to succeed if you work for it.

A moral deficit is the opposite, a country fraught with segregation and class separation that is persistently baited and coerced by the government.

A moral surplus has the lowest politically caused deaths and the moral deficit the most.

Germany is my example. In the 30s and 40s the totalitarian socialist regime ran a moral deficit down to the tune of 10s of millions of dead between Germany, Russia amd other Axis countries. Before Allied forces lost a single soldier, the moral deficit was unimaginable.

Then we all fought back. The Allied death toll when it was all said and done was astronomical as well, getting upwards of 2 million or so...NOT including Russia who saw 10s of millions.

It cost all of those lives to "pay back" the moral debt and make it right.

So my eerie question... if America, the most powerful country in the history of history, fell into socialist ruin and started down the path of implosion and genocide, who has the strength or even care to try and stop its plunge into moral debt before a complete default? Could it be stopped?

1940s Germany is probably 5% as capable as modern America is now. And even Germany in the 40s was able to take over damn near all of Europe.

If America turns totally dark side...we are done for. The world is done for.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk
“There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers

Replies

  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 7,099 Senior Member
    An interesting topic of discussion, to be sure.

    Thing is, Hitler and Stalin both would have said that a moral surplus was their goal, and all that was required to make "a nation, prosperous and evolving, that embraces the advancement of all citizens and affords the opportunity to succeed if you work for it" happen was for everybody to simply get with their programs. . .or pogroms, as it turned out.

    There are loads of negative things to say about Germany of the late 1930's, but lacking a sense of national identity or direction was not among them. In contrast, any politician attempting to achieve the same level of uniform, individual investment in America without a Peal Harbor or 9/11-style unifier is going to be herding cats. About my LAST concern for this country would be getting it collectively riled enough to go off on a war of conquest. Hell, we haven't gotten riled enough to even play to properly win since 1945.

    We are a racial, political, and ideological mud puddle, which, at least as far as being the hypothetical launchpad for a global reign of terror goes, is probably a good thing. Far more likely is that we'd Balkanize and implode.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,930 Senior Member
    Bigslug wrote: »
    An interesting topic of discussion, to be sure.

    Thing is, Hitler and Stalin both would have said that a moral surplus was their goal, and all that was required to make "a nation, prosperous and evolving, that embraces the advancement of all citizens and affords the opportunity to succeed if you work for it" happen was for everybody to simply get with their programs. . .or pogroms, as it turned out.

    There are loads of negative things to say about Germany of the late 1930's, but lacking a sense of national identity or direction was not among them. In contrast, any politician attempting to achieve the same level of uniform, individual investment in America without a Peal Harbor or 9/11-style unifier is going to be herding cats. About my LAST concern for this country would be getting it collectively riled enough to go off on a war of conquest. Hell, we haven't gotten riled enough to even play to properly win since 1945.

    We are a racial, political, and ideological mud puddle, which, at least as far as being the hypothetical launchpad for a global reign of terror goes, is probably a good thing. Far more likely is that we'd Balkanize and implode.

    I have to agree with Bigslug overall. But like Jason says, If we did turn to the dark side there's nobody to stop us. Ain't nobody big enough or motivated enough to do anything much for world good.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,898 Senior Member
    I've been re-studying my Third Reich history - "Mein Kampf", "Rise & Fall of the Third Reich", etc, etc.

    Its AMAZING how similar 1920s/30s Germany was to today's America. The same tactics being used, the same appeasement being employed, etc.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,198 Senior Member
    zorba wrote: »
    I've been re-studying my Third Reich history - "Mein Kampf", "Rise & Fall of the Third Reich", etc, etc.

    Its AMAZING how similar 1920s/30s Germany was to today's America. The same tactics being used, the same appeasement being employed, etc.
    That's because the Progressives who are now in charge are not much different than Nazi's (National Socialists). They just haven't disarmed us yet. They will vehemently deny it, but a fair comparison will show it's true.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,898 Senior Member
    Yep.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,140 Senior Member
    Bigslug wrote: »
    An interesting topic of discussion, to be sure.

    Thing is, Hitler and Stalin both would have said that a moral surplus was their goal, and all that was required to make "a nation, prosperous and evolving, that embraces the advancement of all citizens and affords the opportunity to succeed if you work for it" happen was for everybody to simply get with their programs. . .or pogroms, as it turned out.

    There are loads of negative things to say about Germany of the late 1930's, but lacking a sense of national identity or direction was not among them. In contrast, any politician attempting to achieve the same level of uniform, individual investment in America without a Peal Harbor or 9/11-style unifier is going to be herding cats. About my LAST concern for this country would be getting it collectively riled enough to go off on a war of conquest. Hell, we haven't gotten riled enough to even play to properly win since 1945.

    We are a racial, political, and ideological mud puddle, which, at least as far as being the hypothetical launchpad for a global reign of terror goes, is probably a good thing. Far more likely is that we'd Balkanize and implode.

    Think ya missed my context slightly.

    It's all about ifs and hypotheticals. Not that it IS going that way, but what if it did?

    What if ALL the might of the US was steered towards such evil?

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    That's because the Progressives who are now in charge are not much different than Nazi's (National Socialists). They just haven't disarmed us yet. They will vehemently deny it, but a fair comparison will show it's true.

    Spot on, you cannot tell me these people don't realize criminals or psychos won;t waltz past "no guns" allowed signs.
    There is an agenda hiding in plain sight.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,351 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    Germany is my example. In the 30s and 40s the totalitarian socialist regime...
    The Nazi's weren't socialists. While the English name for the Nazis was the National Socialist Worker's Party, keep in mind that North Korea is called the Democratic Republic of Korea-- bullcrap!!!

    What they were a far right totalitarian fascist regime with a touch of corporate oligarchy thrown in for good measure. The socialists and communists of Nazi Germany found themselves on a one way trip to a concentration camp.
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 7,099 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    Think ya missed my context slightly.

    It's all about ifs and hypotheticals. Not that it IS going that way, but what if it did?

    What if ALL the might of the US was steered towards such evil?

    I didn't so much miss your context as find the premise so implausible as to make contemplation of the "what if?" exceedingly hard. And not because I put the moral fiber of my fellow countryman on any kind of pedestal - far from it.

    Germany was able to achieve a high degree of unity in the '30's because (a.) pretty much everyone in the nation had been pushed to the same wall by the Treaty of Versailles; (b.) they were uni-ethnic and uni-cultural enough to have minorities that actually WERE minorities, and (c.), they got a charismatic enough guy at the right time to sway a majority that actually WAS a majority.

    Do we have people in this country that would blindly follow a mad and destructive leader? Sure. In spades. But do we have enough of them in any ONE socio-economic-ethnic-philosophical group that would blindly follow the SAME mad and destructive leader as to make an effective globe-spanning, social-group annihilating go of it? I've got severe doubts.

    Then there's the problem of keeping us ON your hypothetical path of evil - or, as far as I'm concerned, any path at all. I don't think we have the attention span for it. As was said not long after 9/11: America is not at war; the Marines are at war. America is at the mall.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,898 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    The Nazi's weren't socialists. While the English name for the Nazis was the National Socialist Worker's Party, keep in mind that North Korea is called the Democratic Republic of Korea-- bullcrap!!!
    Correct. They had "Socialist" in their name to attract membership (in the beginning).
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,140 Senior Member
    Bigslug wrote: »
    I didn't so much miss your context as find the premise so implausible as to make contemplation of the "what if?" exceedingly hard. And not because I put the moral fiber of my fellow countryman on any kind of pedestal - far from it.

    Germany was able to achieve a high degree of unity in the '30's because (a.) pretty much everyone in the nation had been pushed to the same wall by the Treaty of Versailles; (b.) they were uni-ethnic and uni-cultural enough to have minorities that actually WERE minorities, and (c.), they got a charismatic enough guy at the right time to sway a majority that actually WAS a majority.

    Do we have people in this country that would blindly follow a mad and destructive leader? Sure. In spades. But do we have enough of them in any ONE socio-economic-ethnic-philosophical group that would blindly follow the SAME mad and destructive leader as to make an effective globe-spanning, social-group annihilating go of it? I've got severe doubts.

    Then there's the problem of keeping us ON your hypothetical path of evil - or, as far as I'm concerned, any path at all. I don't think we have the attention span for it. As was said not long after 9/11: America is not at war; the Marines are at war. America is at the mall.

    Plausibility notwithstanding, it was just a hypothetical to garner some "what if" discussion.

    Are you that guy that yells "BULL----" out loud in a movie theater? :tooth:

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • JeeperJeeper Senior Member Posts: 2,952 Senior Member
    zorba wrote: »
    I've been re-studying my Third Reich history - "Mein Kampf", "Rise & Fall of the Third Reich", etc, etc.

    Its AMAZING how similar 1920s/30s Germany was to today's America. The same tactics being used, the same appeasement being employed, etc.

    ^^^^ THIS.

    Luis
    Wielding the Hammer of Thor first requires you to lift and carry the Hammer of Thor. - Bigslug
  • AntonioAntonio Senior Member Posts: 2,354 Senior Member
    Different situations.

    Americans are not literally starving to death, with political groups literally shooting each other in the streets while there's no fuel to keep unemployed masses warm. Nazism was the last choke of a political system made for the 19th. century, with a grossly uneducated and poorly informed populace. It was born out of fear, fury, ignorance, hate and desperation; Germans had no land, no oil, no steel, no food and the rants of a madman blaming others were quickly believed since other choices meant a long, hard road.

    Sadly if the current trend persist, you might eventually end up in a few generations as other former super powers now sliding towards us, the 3rld. world. Like Spain, Italy, France or England, you'll keep a lot of pride, some military strength and enough economic power to skip above the average worldwide poverty line, but that's it. Maybe the same status you had in the late 1800s before the industrial boom, needing to back against other "minor powers" in case of trouble and no more "Cowboy attitude" but "Let's all agree" to answer back any potential or actual menace.

    Who's to blame? Mainly many of your politicians and their "cool mom" attitude regarding the people they seem to wish to please. Hope I'm wrong, since power shift will be terrible for many, and will leave the U.S. in the "wounded alpha male" position others are patiently waiting for. You have more enemies than you might think of, and everyone is looking for a piece of you to feed their own internal political agendas. Probably the 1st. one of your "friends" to suffer this will be Israel, and they'll pay up dearly.
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