NRA says Open Carry Texas demonstrations 'downright scary'

Big ChiefBig Chief Senior MemberPosts: 32,995 Senior Member
Is this group doing more harm than good? Is the NRA right on their assessment of this activity?

What say you?

"http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/06/03/nra-says-open-carry-texas-group-too-extreme/

"The National Rifle Association has issued a strongly-worded criticism of a fellow gun rights group, calling its practice of so-called "open carry" demonstrations "downright scary."http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/06/03/nra-says-open-carry-texas-group-too-extreme/



The criticisms of Open Carry Texas were noted in an unsigned post published Friday on the NRA's Institute for Legislative Action page. Open Carry Texas members have become known for gathering in public places, mostly notably restaurants, carrying large, high-powered rifles.

Most recently, Sonic, Chipotle, and Chili's joined Starbucks, Wendy's, Jack in the Box, and Applebee's in banning firearms from their premises after protests by Open Carry Texas.

"Let’s not mince words," the post on the NRA's site said, "not only is it rare, it’s downright weird and certainly not a practical way to go normally about your business while being prepared to defend yourself. To those who are not acquainted with the dubious practice of using public displays of firearms as a means to draw attention to oneself or one’s cause, it can be downright scary. It makes folks who might normally be perfectly open-minded about firearms feel uncomfortable and question the motives of pro-gun advocates.

"Using guns merely to draw attention to yourself in public not only defies common sense, it shows a lack of consideration and manners," the NRA wrote. "That’s not the Texas way. And that’s certainly not the NRA way."

Open Carry Texas slammed the NRA Monday in a post on its Facebook page, saying, "The NRA has refused to learn for themselves how Open Carry Texas conducts itself other than what the liberal media and [former New York City Mayor Michael] Bloomberg funded gun control extremists have falsely portrayed. The more the NRA continues to divide its members by attacking some aspects of gun rights instead of supporting all gun rights, the more support it will lose."

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Replies

  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,664 Senior Member
    I think they are a bunch of fools. This does not help our cause.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 6,552 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    Is this group doing more harm than good? Is the NRA right on their assessment of this activity?


    "Using guns merely to draw attention to yourself in public not only defies common sense, it shows a lack of consideration and manners," the NRA wrote.
    This 100%, except they left off it does NOT help our cause in any way shape matter or form.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • Pelagic KayakerPelagic Kayaker Banned Posts: 1,503 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    "Using guns merely to draw attention to yourself in public not only defies common sense, it shows a lack of consideration and manners," the NRA wrote. "That’s not the Texas way. And that’s certainly not the NRA way."

    Agree 100%. The NRA is spot on as usual.
    "The reflection upon my situation and that of this army produces many an uneasy hour when all around me are wrapped in sleep. Few people know the predicament we are in" ~General George Washington, January 14, 1776
  • bobbyrlf3bobbyrlf3 Senior Member Posts: 2,467 Senior Member
    Supporting the free exercise of a right does not mean we should abandon decorum for the sake of making a point, IMO. I think these "protests" are damaging to the argument for an armed populace.
    Knowledge is essential to living freely and fully; understanding gives knowledge purpose and strength; wisdom is combining the two and applying them appropriately in words and actions.
  • Dr. dbDr. db Senior Member Posts: 1,541 Senior Member
    Yup.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Buford wrote: »
    I think they are a bunch of fools. This does not help our cause.

    Agree also!

    What's the purpose of these open carry of long guns demonstrations, anyway? It's just a "look at me! look at me!" thing, like most demonstrations, rightwing or leftwing.

    I mean, the PURPOSE of carrying a weapon is self defense. I don't carry a weapon to show off or to let others know I've got one. Or to prove that I'm keen or even to show that I believe in 2A rights.

    I carry a weapon for ONE reason, self defense.

    And the whole idea of concealed carry is that nobody knows. As one of my instructors told me, "The first time the attacker knows you're carrying is when he sees the muzzle flash."

    These jokers are exactly the same as mall ninjas or apocalypse preppers -- full of themselves and using guns to boost their self image.

    NRA is right.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,930 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    Agree also!

    What's the purpose of these open carry of long guns demonstrations, anyway? It's just a "look at me! look at me!" thing, like most demonstrations, rightwing or leftwing.

    I mean, the PURPOSE of carrying a weapon is self defense. I don't carry a weapon to show off or to let others know I've got one. Or to prove that I'm keen or even to show that I believe in 2A rights.

    I carry a weapon for ONE reason, self defense.

    And the whole idea of concealed carry is that nobody knows. As one of my instructors told me, "The first time the attacker knows you're carrying is when he sees the muzzle flash."

    These jokers are exactly the same as mall ninjas or apocalypse preppers -- full of themselves and using guns to boost their self image.

    NRA is right.

    As you said Sam I don't carry for any of those other reasons you listed, only for self defense. And I sure don't want the purps to know I'm packin heat. If they know you're armed you are their first target.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,140 Senior Member
    I agree.

    In FL, open carry is permitted during a lawful fishing or hunting activity and the travel to and from the activity.

    We get people slinging ARs and fishing in public parks where fishing is allowed JUST to get police attention and try and jam someone up for a 2A violation.

    They are a bunch of idiots for the most part and are just trying to fulfill some personal need to childishly display a rifle in public. It makes them feel authoritarian. Idiots.

    Hurts the cause more than helping.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Senior Member Posts: 5,426 Senior Member
    Legal, perhaps. Good idea? Absolutely not. The "Open Carry" fools have turned far more people against us than they have convinced to support us. We need no more proof of this than the fact that formerly neutral companies such as Chipotle and Starbucks now actively ban open carry in their stores instead of simply referring to local laws like they used to.
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "It's far easier to start out learning to be precise and then speeding up, than it is having never "mastered" the weapon, and trying to be precise." - Dan C
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,786 Senior Member
    It's the 2A equivalent of these folks showing up at chick'fil'a or burger king.

    9033102.jpg?size=140x95

    1372776171-people-flamboyantly-celebrate-pride-weekend-in-toronto_2216818.jpg

    silly-gay-men.jpg?w=585&h=388

    1372776206-people-flamboyantly-celebrate-pride-weekend-in-toronto_2216969.jpg

    There's a time and a place for everything, but it's not when I'm trying to eat lunch!
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,930 Senior Member
    Legal, perhaps. Good idea? Absolutely not. The "Open Carry" fools have turned far more people against us than they have convinced to support us. We need no more proof of this than the fact that formerly neutral companies such as Chipotle and Starbucks now actively ban open carry in their stores instead of simply referring to local laws like they used to.

    I much prefer Concealed Carry to open carry. Better to keep the purps guessing who is armed and who isn't than let them know. Besides, if he/she sees you are armed you will be his/her first target. I love my 2A rights, and actually I would rather have the free choice of whether I carry open or concealed. But I would nearly always opt for concealed for the above reason.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,188 Senior Member
    One thing to point out: Chili's, Starbucks, Chipotle, and I believe Wendy's have NOT banned firearms from their premises. They just request that their customers do not open carry firearms into their premises. They have stated that they will "comply with state and local laws regarding firearms." They haven't spoken against concealed carry.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • Farm Boy DeuceFarm Boy Deuce Senior Member Posts: 6,083 Senior Member
    This group of folks is not very bright. Fortunately they still have the option of proving it in public... Repeatedly.


    Alpha I freaking hate you. I sit here reading while I eat lunch when I run across your day out pictures. I almost threw up my pork roast sammich.
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
    Dad 5-31-13
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    It's the 2A equivalent of these folks showing up at chick'fil'a or burger king.

    9033102.jpg?size=140x95

    1372776171-people-flamboyantly-celebrate-pride-weekend-in-toronto_2216818.jpg

    silly-gay-men.jpg?w=585&h=388

    1372776206-people-flamboyantly-celebrate-pride-weekend-in-toronto_2216969.jpg

    There's a time and a place for everything, but it's not when I'm trying to eat lunch!

    Dang you Alpha, Tarzan will never be the same to me again :yikes::yikes:
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,140 Senior Member
    Legal, perhaps. Good idea? Absolutely not. The "Open Carry" fools have turned far more people against us than they have convinced to support us. We need no more proof of this than the fact that formerly neutral companies such as Chipotle and Starbucks now actively ban open carry in their stores instead of simply referring to local laws like they used to.

    Precisely.

    Descending on a business with 40 or 50 men openly displaying AR15s when the gun climate is at near perfect storm conditions is just absurdly destructive to the promotion of the 2A.

    I can't stand them.

    ETA:

    And as to "Open Carry Texas" or any pro-open carry organization: you are a selfish and self-serving and self-righteous blight on the 2A community. You are pushing an agenda and one which is NOT guaranteed by the 2A. "Keep and bear arms"...not openly or concealed, etc. It's not addressed in the 2A and therefore defaults to the 10A and becomes a state matter of law. So go pound sand with your rhetoric about it being a 2A matter. It isn't.



    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,186 Senior Member
    Texas carry laws are a bit screwy. CCW is O.K. with a license, but open carry of a pistol is not unless it is a cap 'n' ball pistol. But open carry of long arms is legal. Or so I've read. If that's the case then Texas needs to make the law for open carry of pistols legal. That would at least maybe stop some of the foolishness going on.
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • USUFBUSUFB Senior Member Posts: 830 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    Texas carry laws are a bit screwy. CCW is O.K. with a license, but open carry of a pistol is not unless it is a cap 'n' ball pistol. But open carry of long arms is legal. Or so I've read. If that's the case then Texas needs to make the law for open carry of pistols legal. That would at least maybe stop some of the foolishness going on.

    I believe that's what these folks are supporting. They're just doing it in a divisive, in-your-face manner. As others have stated, bad idea.
    Sometimes, I lie awake in bed at night wondering "Why the heck can't I fall asleep?"
    NRA Life Member
  • jaywaptijaywapti Senior Member Posts: 4,577 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    I much prefer Concealed Carry to open carry. Better to keep the purps guessing who is armed and who isn't than let them know. Besides, if he/she sees you are armed you will be his/her first target. I love my 2A rights, and actually I would rather have the free choice of whether I carry open or concealed. But I would nearly always opt for concealed for the above reason.

    :that:\

    JAY
    THE DEFINITION OF GUN CONTROL IS HITTING THE TARGET WITH YOUR FIRST SHOT
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,930 Senior Member
    It's the 2A equivalent of these folks showing up at chick'fil'a or burger king.

    9033102.jpg?size=140x95

    1372776171-people-flamboyantly-celebrate-pride-weekend-in-toronto_2216818.jpg

    silly-gay-men.jpg?w=585&h=388

    1372776206-people-flamboyantly-celebrate-pride-weekend-in-toronto_2216969.jpg

    There's a time and a place for everything, but it's not when I'm trying to eat lunch!

    This all wreaks of a sick mind!:silly: :roll2: :tooth:
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 8,749 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    This all wreaks of a sick mind!:silly: :roll2: :tooth:

    I guess that is how people dress in the NCR these days.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,930 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    Precisely.

    Descending on a business with 40 or 50 men openly displaying AR15s when the gun climate is at near perfect storm conditions is just absurdly destructive to the promotion of the 2A.

    I can't stand them.

    ETA:

    And as to "Open Carry Texas" or any pro-open carry organization: you are a selfish and self-serving and self-righteous blight on the 2A community. You are pushing an agenda and one which is NOT guaranteed by the 2A. "Keep and bear arms"...not openly or concealed, etc. It's not addressed in the 2A and therefore defaults to the 10A and becomes a state matter of law. So go pound sand with your rhetoric about it being a 2A matter. It isn't.





    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk































    The only thing I believe this has to do with the 2A is that the Federal Government should stand down from this argument and leave it to the states whether the people there want open carry or not. What's good for Idaho may not be good for Indiana and so forth. But the Fed has no place regulating whether we can carry concealed, open or in your mouth. It's a state issue and shouldnt have to default to the 2A for legality.

    And like you say, Keep and Bear doesn't have anything to do with carry.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,193 Senior Member
    It's the 2A equivalent of these folks showing up at chick'fil'a or burger king.

    9033102.jpg?size=140x95

    1372776171-people-flamboyantly-celebrate-pride-weekend-in-toronto_2216818.jpg

    silly-gay-men.jpg?w=585&h=388

    1372776206-people-flamboyantly-celebrate-pride-weekend-in-toronto_2216969.jpg

    There's a time and a place for everything, but it's not when I'm trying to eat lunch!
    I was thinking exactly the same thing while reading this thread. It's all about getting attention. I would prefer concealed carry to open carry.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    I agree.

    In FL, open carry is permitted during a lawful fishing or hunting activity and the travel to and from the activity.

    Same here in Texas, which only makes good sense. Technically, I guess, Texas also allows general open carry of long guns anywhere so long as they're not loaded and present a hazard. And I also agree with the rest of your post.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    And as to "Open Carry Texas" or any pro-open carry organization: you are a selfish and self-serving and self-righteous blight on the 2A community. You are pushing an agenda and one which is NOT guaranteed by the 2A. "Keep and bear arms"...not openly or concealed, etc. It's not addressed in the 2A and therefore defaults to the 10A and becomes a state matter of law. So go pound sand with your rhetoric about it being a 2A matter. It isn't.

    Absolutely and correctly stated!

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    Texas carry laws are a bit screwy. CCW is O.K. with a license, but open carry of a pistol is not unless it is a cap 'n' ball pistol. But open carry of long arms is legal. Or so I've read. If that's the case then Texas needs to make the law for open carry of pistols legal. That would at least maybe stop some of the foolishness going on.

    I doubt it would halt the foolishness. These idiots are doing it for the personal attention and not really for any 2A reason.

    However, I agree that Tx should also have open handgun carry. And one other matter, a change in the concealed law that allows carry in taverns. Hey, if you're gonna be a legal licencee, you're not gonna cause trouble. My only "worry" is going to and from bars at night -- even though I don't drink much anymore, girlfriend and I do go to bars for friendship and music and whatever. Maybe after November and a genuine conservative is elected Lt. Gov these measures will pass the legislature and into law.

    But that's a topic for the 2A section anyway.

    Back to subject, I really don't expect these idiots to change much.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    It's the 2A equivalent of these folks showing up at chick'fil'a or burger king.

    There's a time and a place for everything, but it's not when I'm trying to eat lunch!

    Oh, thanks a lot, alpha! There are things that you can't unsee and you showed us a couple of them. "Scuse me while I kiss..." (how does that go?)

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,786 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    "Scuse me while I kiss..." (how does that go?)

    the dude in the rainbow flamingo costume?
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,140 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    I doubt it would halt the foolishness. These idiots are doing it for the personal attention and not really for any 2A reason.

    However, I agree that Tx should also have open handgun carry. And one other matter, a change in the concealed law that allows carry in taverns. Hey, if you're gonna be a legal licencee, you're not gonna cause trouble. My only "worry" is going to and from bars at night -- even though I don't drink much anymore, girlfriend and I do go to bars for friendship and music and whatever. Maybe after November and a genuine conservative is elected Lt. Gov these measures will pass the legislature and into law.

    But that's a topic for the 2A section anyway.

    Back to subject, I really don't expect these idiots to change much.

    Not always so. Normally "responsible" people perpetrate violent crimes when inebriated--happens all the time. Some people are angry drunks or easily provoked when intoxicated.

    That's why a bar is referred to as a "place of nuisance" under Florida's verbiage. They've erred on the side of caution for those reasons.

    Is it a 2A infringement? Speculative, but not well discussed.



    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 9,770 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    Texas carry laws are a bit screwy. CCW is O.K. with a license, but open carry of a pistol is not unless it is a cap 'n' ball pistol. But open carry of long arms is legal. Or so I've read. If that's the case then Texas needs to make the law for open carry of pistols legal. That would at least maybe stop some of the foolishness going on.

    That is their stated aim. To normalize the open carry that IS legal to the point that open carry of handguns is made legal. But doing it with a Tapcp-Raped SKS in a single point nut-knocker sling is the WRONG way to do it.

    They should organize marches on Congress Ave here in Austin with everyone in cowboy gear and carrying a brace of cap and ball revolvers. Make it a true protest, and not some attention-whoreing goat rodeo.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,186 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    That is their stated aim. To normalize the open carry that IS legal to the point that open carry of handguns is made legal. But doing it with a Tapcp-Raped SKS in a single point nut-knocker sling is the WRONG way to do it.

    They should organize marches on Congress Ave here in Austin with everyone in cowboy gear and carrying a brace of cap and ball revolvers. Make it a true protest, and not some attention-whoreing goat rodeo.

    Now THAT would make a statement! I can see that kind of protest march being not so confrontational, and still making the point.
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



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